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TERM: 'a Bergamino'

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  • Jirka Bolech
    Hi there, I have a paragraph about Gorgonzola cheese in a text I m doing -- basically an extract from http://www.evaet.novara.it/UK/gorgonzola.htm -- and there
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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      Hi there,

      I have a paragraph about Gorgonzola cheese in a text I'm doing -- basically
      an extract from http://www.evaet.novara.it/UK/gorgonzola.htm -- and there is
      this sentence:

      'The green/blue-veined cheese (caused by mould during maturation) dates back
      to the 9th century, when it is rumoured, amongst other stories, that the
      cheese was created by accident when a 'Bergamino' left the preparation of
      his cheese halfway through to charm a peasant girl.'

      Shall I understand 'a Bergamino' as 'a guy called Bergamino' or 'a guy whose
      characteristics resemble those of another Bergamino whose name should be
      well-know to a well-educated"? Any ideas appreciated...

      Jirka Bolech
    • andeds@aol.com
      Hi Jirka, I m not an Italian specialist, but here s an explanation in Italian: dal celebre errore di un casaro del XII, un bergamino , così erano chiamati i
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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        Hi Jirka,
        I'm not an Italian specialist, but here's an explanation in Italian:
        dal celebre errore di un casaro del XII, un "bergamino", così erano chiamati i pastori che scendevano con le greggi verso le marcite della Padani dai monti della bergamasca e che poi proseguivano lungo l'Adda sino ad arrivare a Gorgonzola.

        So "bergamino" was the name of a kind of shepherd who came down from the mountains of "the bergamasca" - those whose Italian is better than mine will make more sense of this. Don't know if it's near Bergamo.

        Dylan
      • Jirka Bolech
        Hi Dylan, thanks for your view. It s occurred to me later on it s probably a job. The word sounds like a diminutive, but I don t think it has anything to do
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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          Hi Dylan,

          thanks for your view. It's occurred to me later on it's probably a job. The
          word sounds like a diminutive, but I don't think it has anything to do with
          Bergamo. My Italian is zero (except that I can count to ten), but the
          shepherd suggestion sounds good to me. I 'only' need to put it in a witty
          intelligible Czech expression now...

          Jirka Bolech
        • James Kirchner
          He was almost certainly a resident of the province of Bergamo: http://www.provincia.bergamo.it/Provpor/portalProcess.jsp
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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            He was almost certainly a resident of the province of Bergamo:

            http://www.provincia.bergamo.it/Provpor/portalProcess.jsp

            http://www.pickatrail.com/jupiter/location/europe/italy/bergamo.html

            Jamie

            On Friday, December 31, 2004, at 05:11 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

            >
            > Hi there,
            >
            > I have a paragraph about Gorgonzola cheese in a text I'm doing --
            > basically
            > an extract from http://www.evaet.novara.it/UK/gorgonzola.htm -- and
            > there is
            > this sentence:
            >
            > 'The green/blue-veined cheese (caused by mould during maturation)
            > dates back
            > to the 9th century, when it is rumoured, amongst other stories, that
            > the
            > cheese was created by accident when a 'Bergamino' left the preparation
            > of
            > his cheese halfway through to charm a peasant girl.'
            >
            > Shall I understand 'a Bergamino' as 'a guy called Bergamino' or 'a guy
            > whose
            > characteristics resemble those of another Bergamino whose name should
            > be
            > well-know to a well-educated"? Any ideas appreciated...
            >
            > Jirka Bolech
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Czechlist resources:
            > http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
            >
            > http://tsunamihelp.blogspot.com/
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Jirka Bolech
            Right you are, guys. Bergamino does seem to refer to Bergamo. I am going to use the Italian word bergamino in the translation with a short definition in
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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              Right you are, guys. 'Bergamino' does seem to refer to Bergamo. I am going
              to use the Italian word 'bergamino' in the translation with a short
              definition in Czech in apposition.

              Thanks, Dylan and Jamie...

              Jirka Bolech
            • Petr Veselý
              Just to confuse you a little bit, here is another legend, definitely the only true one, :-) http://www.labuznik.com/ingre.php?ID=207 Petr ... From: Jirka
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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                Just to confuse you a little bit, here is another legend, definitely the
                only true one, :-)

                http://www.labuznik.com/ingre.php?ID=207

                Petr

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Jirka Bolech" <jirka.bolech@...>
                To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 1:26 PM
                Subject: [Czechlist] THANKs -- TERM: 'a Bergamino'


                >
                > Right you are, guys. 'Bergamino' does seem to refer to Bergamo. I am going
                > to use the Italian word 'bergamino' in the translation with a short
                > definition in Czech in apposition.
                >
                > Thanks, Dylan and Jamie...
                >
                > Jirka Bolech
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Czechlist resources:
                > http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                >
                > http://tsunamihelp.blogspot.com/
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • James Kirchner
                ... I had two years of Italian in college, anyway. ... This is a tough one. I have searched Italian dictionaries all over the web, and my own Italian
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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                  On Friday, December 31, 2004, at 05:54 AM, Jirka Bolech wrote:

                  > My Italian is zero (except that I can count to ten)

                  I had two years of Italian in college, anyway.

                  > thanks for your view. It's occurred to me later on it's probably a
                  > job. The
                  > word sounds like a diminutive, but I don't think it has anything to do
                  > with
                  > Bergamo. My Italian is zero (except that I can count to ten), but the
                  > shepherd suggestion sounds good to me. I 'only' need to put it in a
                  > witty
                  > intelligible Czech expression now...

                  This is a tough one. I have searched Italian dictionaries all over the
                  web, and my own Italian dictionaries at home, and although I can find
                  many words for "shepherd" none of the dictionaries lists "bergamino" as
                  one of the alternatives. I searched "shepherd" and "bergamino"
                  together, and found no relevant hits, except for one site about
                  shepherd dogs in which the writer says one of his ancestors was "a
                  Bergamino", but it's not clear whether he means a shepherd or someone
                  from Bergamo, or even a shepherd from Bergamo.

                  I went ahead and made diminutives from the names of several Italian
                  provinces and searched them. I found that a man from the province of
                  Bari referred to as a "baresino", and one from the province of Gorizia
                  called a "gorizino". So, it's not unusual in Italian to find a
                  diminutive used as the designation for a citizen of a certain province.

                  Does this mean I'm sure that "Bergamino" does not mean shepherd? No.

                  One of the French terms for shepherd is "berger".

                  If "Bergamino" simply means a shepherd, then it should not be
                  capitalized. One the other hand, many native-writing English speakers
                  don't know how to capitalize right.

                  Jamie


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Jirka Bolech
                  ... I simply think now that a bergamino is indeed an Italian word for someone (a man) from the Bergamo area, while the particular one in the tale about the
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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                    > This is a tough one.

                    I simply think now that a 'bergamino' is indeed an Italian word for someone
                    (a man) from the Bergamo area, while the particular one in the tale about
                    the Gorgonzola cheese origin was a shepherd, but the word itself does not
                    imply the that fact...

                    Jirka Bolech
                  • andeds@aol.com
                    It looks as if you ve settled this question. bergamino , così erano chiamati i pastori che scendevano con le greggi verso le marcite della Padani dai monti
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 31, 2004
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                      It looks as if you've settled this question.
                      "bergamino", così erano chiamati i pastori che scendevano con le greggi verso le marcite della Padani dai monti della bergamasc
                      - as I understand it, this means
                      "bergamino", as the shepherds (pastori) were called who came down with their herds to the markets of (? the) Padani from the mountains of Bergamasca - possibly "the Bergamasca", if it's the name of the Bergamo region.
                      As you see, Italian tends to use lower case, but I'd guess that "bergamino" and "bergamasca" come from the name Bergamo.
                      Anyway, you've moved on to various cheese legends...
                      Happy New Year!
                      Dylan
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