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RE: [Czechlist] Rozklad proti rozhodnuti CNB

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  • ing.Sarka Rubkova
    Hi Micheal, my legal dictionary says remonstrance against the CNB decision sarka ... From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgrant@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 26,
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 26 1:12 PM
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      Hi Micheal,
      my legal dictionary says remonstrance against the CNB decision

      sarka

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgrant@...]
      Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 9:27 PM
      To: czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Czechlist] Rozklad proti rozhodnuti CNB


      Anyone still up over there?
      Is the critter in the subject line a formal appeal? Closest thing I
      can find in my dictionaries that's not obviously wrong is
      'memorandum'.

      Thanks,
      Michael

      --
      No need to go giving a hog a new wristwatch.



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    • Mike Trittipo
      ... Agreed, as per my Lantra-L message, quoted next (as I don t know how you retrieve messages): Remonstrance and remonstrate carry a flavor in modern
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 26 6:12 PM
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        Terminus Technicus napsal(a):
        > Hi Michael, Not my cup of tea exactly, but I think "rozklad proti" in
        > oficialese is (at least roughly) the same as "odvolani" - appeal, I think it
        > may have something to do with being filled by an institution rather than a
        > person??? In any case unless you hear otherwise, I think appeal won't hurt
        > here...

        Agreed, as per my Lantra-L message, quoted next
        (as I don't know how you retrieve messages):

        "Remonstrance" and "remonstrate" carry a flavor in
        modern English of dealing with a willful child, or
        a "methinks the lady doth protest too much"
        situation. They are not in common, even
        occasional, use among U.S. lawyers -- and I doubt
        that they are in other present or former areas
        ruled by Britain -- for the specific meaning of
        "an appeal" or "an objection."

        First, some numbers. The word "remonstrance" has
        been used only once since May, 1996 by any
        Minnesota appellate court; and the word
        "remonstrate" only once (and that in a different
        decision). So one verb, one noun, out of -- oh,
        let's say five years of 2,000 decisions a year at
        an average of maybe 15 pages each. The clincher?
        Neither time was the word used to mean what
        "rozklad" means in your situation, i.e., a step in
        intra-agency review. Each time it was used to mean
        only the garden-variety "protest." (URLs: see below)

        Does the term _exist_ in the legal context? Yes.
        But it is a hanger on, as a vestige from two
        centuries or more ago. You might find it in an
        occasional statute. But it is not current use,
        and it does *not* have the technical meaning of
        "administrative appeal" or "agency appeal" or
        "protest of agency action" or "demand for agency
        review" that "rozklad" does.

        That answers your immediate request for
        "reactions" as to whether it's contemporary usage
        for the meaning of intra-agency review
        proceedings. But being me, I'll continue. :-)

        I'll skip discussion of French "cassation,"
        ("breaking"), which has some obvious connections
        to "rozklad." Instead, as you're dealing with
        Czech, let me quote two sources, to suggest that
        you can feel comfortable using whatever you'd be
        willing to use for "odvolání":

        "Proti rozhodnutí, které vydal v prvním stupni
        ústřední orgán státní správy (ministerstvo) je
        řádným opravným prostředkem *rozklad*, který lze
        podat . . .. O rozkladu rozhoduje vedoucí
        ústředního orgánu . . .."
        That's from Šíma a Suk, Základy práva pro střední
        a vyšší odborné školy (1997) (*bold* in original,
        to designate a term that's being defined, as the
        instrumental also indicates.)

        and

        "Pro řízení o rozkladu platí shodná ůprava jako
        pro řízení o odvolání, s výjimkami, které výslovně
        zakotvuje správní řád. Rozdíl mezi odvoláním a
        rozkladem spočívá v tom, že o rozkladu rozhoduje
        vedoucí orgánu, jehož rozhodnutí bylo napadeno."
        That's from Spirit a kol., Základy právní vědy a
        veřejného práva (1998)

        So I consider a "rozklad" as basically the same as
        an "odvolani" in all but name only, except that
        it's intra-agency instead of external, and subject
        to some extra possible limitations due to that
        fact. So personally, if I didn't just use the
        word "appeal" or "objection" on its own, I'd be
        inclined to translate it as "administrative
        appeal" or "agency objection" or "request for
        review" or "intra-agency protest" or the like.
      • Mike Trittipo
        As I think about it, there is a term for *judicial* review of *final agency action* -- *that* term is certiorari. It s one of the old writs. But I read
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 26 6:17 PM
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          As I think about it, there is a term for
          *judicial* review of *final agency action* --
          *that* term is "certiorari." It's one of the old
          writs. But I read Sima/Suk & Spirit as saying
          that rozklad is for *agency head* review of *not
          yet final agency action," a different kettle of
          fish, and one which in U.S. agencies is usually
          called "administrative appeal" or "objection" or
          "protest" or the like.
        • Michael Grant
          ... Thanks Matej, Sarka (toss that dictionary!) and Mike T! Michael -- No need to go giving a hog a new wristwatch.
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 27 9:34 AM
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            On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 20:17:50 -0500, Mike Trittipo <tritt002@...> wrote:
            >
            > As I think about it, there is a term for
            > *judicial* review of *final agency action* --
            > *that* term is "certiorari." It's one of the old
            > writs. But I read Sima/Suk & Spirit as saying
            > that rozklad is for *agency head* review of *not
            > yet final agency action," a different kettle of
            > fish, and one which in U.S. agencies is usually
            > called "administrative appeal" or "objection" or
            > "protest" or the like.

            Thanks Matej, Sarka (toss that dictionary!) and Mike T!
            Michael

            --
            No need to go giving a hog a new wristwatch.
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