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Re: FUN: Translation Gems in Movies

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  • spektrum2002
    Je to pekne. Sam si pamatuji na jeden film v televizi, ktery se v originale jmenoval Believed violent a preklad znel Milovane nasili . A v jednom americkem
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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      Je to pekne.
      Sam si pamatuji na jeden film v televizi, ktery se v originale
      jmenoval "Believed violent" a preklad znel "Milovane nasili".
      A v jednom americkem filmu je jeden stary Rek (Antony Quinn) (zrejme
      pravoslavny) dost nemocny a ptaji se ho, jestli nemaji povolat kneze.
      Odpovi neco jako: "Az budu chtit kneze, tak si zavolam pro papeze"
      (pope!).
      A nekde jsem cetl hodne starou historku, jak "I won't be a second" v
      titulcich prelozili "nebudu druhy".
      Zdravi Petr Adamek
      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@v...>
      wrote:
      > http://www.fuxoft.cz/preklady/
      >
      > Enjoy!
      > Martin
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Terminus Technicus
      No jo, klasika, jako ten pan co prisel ve filmu na navstevu, dal hostitelce puget a rekl Tady jdete (Here you go) Ale je to ta sama situace jako v
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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        No jo, klasika, jako ten pan co prisel ve filmu na navstevu, dal hostitelce
        puget a rekl "Tady jdete" (Here you go)

        Ale je to ta sama situace jako v literarnich prekladech, pokud to nekdo
        nedela jako konicka, tak to za tech 100 Kc/NS muze byt jedine totalni
        amater... za filmy se plati neco jako desetnik za titulek (nebo radek v
        dialogu), myslim, setkal jsem se jednou se slecnou, ktera preklada vsechny
        Holywoodske pakarny pro jednoho distributora, bylo to na nejake party a kdyz
        na ni hostitel promluvil anglicky, tak neco zakoktala a utekla do kouta :)

        Kdyby alespon nezacli vsechno dabovat uz i na CT 2 :( bude z nas narod
        debilu, v Dansku se nikdy nikdo formalne neucil anglicky a i posledni
        uklizecka na skole mluvila lip nez ja - protoze v televizi maji vsechno s
        titulkama...

        M







        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "spektrum2002" <padamek@...>
        To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 12:57 PM
        Subject: [Czechlist] Re: FUN: Translation Gems in Movies


        > Je to pekne.
        > Sam si pamatuji na jeden film v televizi, ktery se v originale
        > jmenoval "Believed violent" a preklad znel "Milovane nasili".
        > A v jednom americkem filmu je jeden stary Rek (Antony Quinn) (zrejme
        > pravoslavny) dost nemocny a ptaji se ho, jestli nemaji povolat kneze.
        > Odpovi neco jako: "Az budu chtit kneze, tak si zavolam pro papeze"
        > (pope!).
        > A nekde jsem cetl hodne starou historku, jak "I won't be a second" v
        > titulcich prelozili "nebudu druhy".
        > Zdravi Petr Adamek
        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@v...>
        > wrote:
        > > http://www.fuxoft.cz/preklady/
        > >
        > > Enjoy!
        > > Martin
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Czechlist Users' Guide:
        >
        > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/newfaq.html
        >
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      • Petr Jarolím
        Jo, a jeste ten tajemný generál Attorney , který se vyskytuje skoro ve vsech filmech ze soudni sine ... A kdyz jeden rytir pravi druhemu I´ll call you a
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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          Jo, a jeste ten tajemný "generál Attorney", který se vyskytuje skoro ve
          vsech filmech ze soudni sine ...
          A kdyz jeden rytir pravi druhemu "I´ll call you" a v titulcich bezi
          "Zatelefonuji ti", tak to je taky dost dobre.

          Hanka
        • raesim
          Hello! ... The scripts for the Lord of the Rings films weren t worth translating anyway: they re not Tolkien, but a parody of Tolkien. Why, when they had great
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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            Hello!

            > LORD OF THE RINGS: FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING (Theatrical subtitles)
            > In the Rivendell, when Gandalf says to Frodo "You're beginning to
            > mend", it's translated as "You're beginning to melt".
            > When Gimli says "Nobody throws the dwarf" (before he's thrown
            > across the chasm in Moria), it's translated as "Nobody strikes
            > down the dwarf".

            The scripts for the Lord of the Rings films weren't worth
            translating anyway: they're not Tolkien, but a parody of Tolkien.
            Why, when they had great writing to draw on, did the makers of the
            films give us bad writing? Presumably because they thought the
            ninety-five percent of their potential audience they expected to be
            morons wouldn't understand the original. What's particularly
            disappointing, though, is that so few people who claim to love the
            books seem to mind that NONE of Tolkien's dialogue is used in the
            films. Of all the reviews on Amazon that I read (most of them
            written by LotR obsessives), there was only one that commented on
            the bad writing.

            Anyway, that's not why I'm writing in...

            I wanted to say, in response to reading that selection of film
            bloopers, that I suspect there is not a single Czech translation of
            a book or a film written in English that does not contain at least
            one error. (Admittedly, the same may go for other or all language
            combinations.) No, I haven't read all the books or seen all the
            films, but the selective reading and viewing I have done have ALWAYS
            turned up mistakes. Since we're talking about The LotR, let's take
            as an example the Czech translation of The Fellowship of the Rings,
            by Stanislava Posustova, which is widely held to be an excellent
            translation. The very first sentence of the Prologue contains an
            error:

            This book is largely concerned with hobbits, and from its pages a
            reader may discover much of their character and a little of their
            history.

            Tato kniha se vesmes zabyva hobity a z jejich stranek se ctenar muze
            dozvedet hodne o jejich povaze a malo o jejich dejinach.

            When I read this, I gave up on the Prologue and flicked forward, and
            the next sentence I stumbled upon (in Book II, Chapter 3, 'The Ring
            Goes South') also happened to be wrong:

            A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the east.

            Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor k vychodu.

            This last is an example of a translator failing to think.
            Uncontextualized, the sentence could be rendered so, but the
            translator had the story -- and the MAP Tolkien provided -- to go
            on, and these clearly indicate that the translation is nonsense.

            At the risk of inciting people to show off, I invite the Czechs on
            the list to, like Faramir, 'show their quality' and tell us what's
            wrong with the above translations and how to correct them. The
            prize for the first correct translations is my respect, and I don't
            know what could be worth more than that.

            Oh, you might need a hint for the second example: the Fellowship has
            not yet set out from Rivendell.

            Simon
          • jsyeaton
            ... muze ... ... a NECO of jejich dejinach. BTW, I wonder how many mistakes there are in translations of Svejk ? Judy
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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              I'll go first so I can take the easy one:

              >
              > "This book is largely concerned with hobbits, and from its pages a
              > reader may discover much of their character and a little of their
              > history."
              >
              > Tato kniha se vesmes zabyva hobity a z jejich stranek se ctenar
              muze
              > dozvedet hodne o jejich povaze a malo o jejich dejinach.

              ... a NECO of jejich dejinach.

              BTW, I wonder how many mistakes there are in translations of "Svejk"?

              Judy


              >
            • Martin Janda
              You know, when you are translating a 300 or 500 page book, it s probably impossible not to make mistakes - we tend to do them in much shorter documents :-) ...
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                You know, when you are translating a 300 or 500 page book, it's probably
                impossible not to make mistakes - we tend to do them in much shorter
                documents :-)


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "raesim" <rachelandsimon@...>
                To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 2:34 PM
                Subject: [Czechlist] Lawdy! (was: Translation Gems in Movies)


                > Hello!
                >
                > > LORD OF THE RINGS: FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING (Theatrical subtitles)
                > > In the Rivendell, when Gandalf says to Frodo "You're beginning to
                > > mend", it's translated as "You're beginning to melt".
                > > When Gimli says "Nobody throws the dwarf" (before he's thrown
                > > across the chasm in Moria), it's translated as "Nobody strikes
                > > down the dwarf".
                >
                > The scripts for the Lord of the Rings films weren't worth
                > translating anyway: they're not Tolkien, but a parody of Tolkien.
                > Why, when they had great writing to draw on, did the makers of the
                > films give us bad writing? Presumably because they thought the
                > ninety-five percent of their potential audience they expected to be
                > morons wouldn't understand the original. What's particularly
                > disappointing, though, is that so few people who claim to love the
                > books seem to mind that NONE of Tolkien's dialogue is used in the
                > films. Of all the reviews on Amazon that I read (most of them
                > written by LotR obsessives), there was only one that commented on
                > the bad writing.
                >
                > Anyway, that's not why I'm writing in...
                >
                > I wanted to say, in response to reading that selection of film
                > bloopers, that I suspect there is not a single Czech translation of
                > a book or a film written in English that does not contain at least
                > one error. (Admittedly, the same may go for other or all language
                > combinations.) No, I haven't read all the books or seen all the
                > films, but the selective reading and viewing I have done have ALWAYS
                > turned up mistakes. Since we're talking about The LotR, let's take
                > as an example the Czech translation of The Fellowship of the Rings,
                > by Stanislava Posustova, which is widely held to be an excellent
                > translation. The very first sentence of the Prologue contains an
                > error:
                >
                > This book is largely concerned with hobbits, and from its pages a
                > reader may discover much of their character and a little of their
                > history.
                >
                > Tato kniha se vesmes zabyva hobity a z jejich stranek se ctenar muze
                > dozvedet hodne o jejich povaze a malo o jejich dejinach.
                >
                > When I read this, I gave up on the Prologue and flicked forward, and
                > the next sentence I stumbled upon (in Book II, Chapter 3, 'The Ring
                > Goes South') also happened to be wrong:
                >
                > A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the east.
                >
                > Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor k vychodu.
                >
                > This last is an example of a translator failing to think.
                > Uncontextualized, the sentence could be rendered so, but the
                > translator had the story -- and the MAP Tolkien provided -- to go
                > on, and these clearly indicate that the translation is nonsense.
                >
                > At the risk of inciting people to show off, I invite the Czechs on
                > the list to, like Faramir, 'show their quality' and tell us what's
                > wrong with the above translations and how to correct them. The
                > prize for the first correct translations is my respect, and I don't
                > know what could be worth more than that.
                >
                > Oh, you might need a hint for the second example: the Fellowship has
                > not yet set out from Rivendell.
                >
                > Simon
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Czechlist Users' Guide:
                >
                > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/newfaq.html
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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              • Rubkova
                Ja bych to prelozila ...a neco malo o jejich dejinach A druha veta: Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor na vychode. Podotykam, ze nejsem fanda teto knihy a
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                  Ja bych to prelozila ...a neco malo o jejich dejinach

                  A druha veta: Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor na vychode. Podotykam,
                  ze nejsem fanda teto knihy a mapu jsem nukdy nevidela

                  Sarka

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: jsyeaton [mailto:jsyeaton@...]
                  Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 2:52 PM
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Lawdy! (was: Translation Gems in Movies)


                  I'll go first so I can take the easy one:

                  >
                  > "This book is largely concerned with hobbits, and from its pages a
                  > reader may discover much of their character and a little of their
                  > history."
                  >
                  > Tato kniha se vesmes zabyva hobity a z jejich stranek se ctenar
                  muze
                  > dozvedet hodne o jejich povaze a malo o jejich dejinach.

                  ... a NECO of jejich dejinach.

                  BTW, I wonder how many mistakes there are in translations of "Svejk"?

                  Judy


                  >





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                • Zdenek Mikan
                  IMHO it is a problem of attitude: many translators think, that they should render only the general meaning of text, not every word. Some of them even think,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                    IMHO it is a problem of attitude: many translators think, that they
                    should render only the general meaning of text, not every word. Some of
                    them even think, that they could express the idea better than original
                    author (sometimes it can be true).

                    Best Regards

                    Zdenek

                    Martin Janda wrote:

                    > You know, when you are translating a 300 or 500 page book, it's probably
                    > impossible not to make mistakes - we tend to do them in much shorter
                    > documents :-)
                  • raesim
                    ... Actually, Judy, this competition is only open to Czechs. :-) ... Plenty, I should think. In my message, I did allow for the possibility that translators
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "jsyeaton" <jsyeaton@y...> wrote:
                      > I'll go first so I can take the easy one:

                      Actually, Judy, this competition is only open to Czechs. :-)

                      > BTW, I wonder how many mistakes there are in translations
                      > of "Svejk"?

                      Plenty, I should think. In my message, I did allow for the
                      possibility that translators working in other combinations were just
                      as prone to error. Having said that, there does seem to be a
                      culture of carelessness in this country. On Monday afternoon, I
                      took a walk around Mala Strana, in the course of which I passed the
                      Wallenstein Palace, home of the Czech Senate. The building has been
                      beautifully renovated, but all that good work is marred by a plaque
                      in English that reads something like:

                      'From 1996, the palace is seat of upper house of Czech Parliament.'

                      How is it that someone contracted to translate a plaque to go on the
                      Czech SENATE did not have a proper grasp of English tenses, i.e. did
                      not know to write 'Since...has been...' (we'll ignore the lesser
                      mistakes)?

                      Havel's offical site as President of the Czech Republic welcomed
                      visitors to *the* Prague Castle.

                      Strict about their own language, Czechs can be very lax with English.

                      Simon
                    • raesim
                      ... Kudos galore to Sarka. Wouldn t trochu also do? malo - little trochu - a little ... Oh, Sarka, now I m disappointed in you. ... But this is impressive.
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                        > Ja bych to prelozila ...a neco malo o jejich dejinach
                        >
                        > A druha veta: Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor na vychode.

                        Kudos galore to Sarka.

                        Wouldn't 'trochu' also do?

                        malo - little
                        trochu - a little

                        > Podotykam, ze nejsem fanda teto knihy

                        Oh, Sarka, now I'm disappointed in you.

                        > a mapu jsem nukdy nevidela

                        But this is impressive.

                        Simon
                      • Rubkova
                        ... It would but I feel that neco malo is better sarka ... From: raesim [mailto:rachelandsimon@quick.cz] Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 3:50 PM To:
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                          >Wouldn't 'trochu' also do?
                          >
                          > malo - little
                          > trochu - a little

                          It would but I feel that "neco malo" is better

                          sarka

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: raesim [mailto:rachelandsimon@...]
                          Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 3:50 PM
                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Lawdy! (was: Translation Gems in Movies)


                          > Ja bych to prelozila ...a neco malo o jejich dejinach
                          >
                          > A druha veta: Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor na vychode.

                          Kudos galore to Sarka.



                          > Podotykam, ze nejsem fanda teto knihy

                          Oh, Sarka, now I'm disappointed in you.

                          > a mapu jsem nukdy nevidela

                          But this is impressive.

                          Simon





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                        • jsyeaton
                          ... Look at history: Americans are hard to keep out. J
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "raesim" <rachelandsimon@q...>
                            wrote:
                            > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "jsyeaton" <jsyeaton@y...> wrote:
                            > > I'll go first so I can take the easy one:
                            >
                            > Actually, Judy, this competition is only open to Czechs. :-)
                            >
                            Look at history: Americans are hard to keep out.

                            J
                          • jsyeaton
                            ... wrote: I don t think it s as much laxness as lack of experience. After all, for 40 years translators were taught - out of necessity - that it was possible
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "raesim" <rachelandsimon@q...>
                              wrote:
                              I don't think it's as much laxness as lack of experience. After
                              all, for 40 years translators were taught - out of necessity - that
                              it was possible to "go into foreign," and there was certainly no one
                              around to challenge their work.

                              Now institutions (the National Museum, Lord help us!) order
                              translations in all good faith from agencies that are ISO-certified
                              (in some cases) and promise to have everything passed on by a native
                              speaker, and assume all is well.

                              In Britain, with its colonial past, and the US, home of immigrants,
                              we've always had enough native speakers from everywhere so that it
                              has been possible to insist that translators work only into their
                              native language. Americans are tolerant (to a fault) about the
                              missuse of English, the British are polite - but eventually somebody
                              will let it out how funny some of these translations sound. Or else
                              the Indians will take over the world's to-and-from English
                              translation work and we'll all just have to learn to live
                              with "whatever."

                              Judy
                              Having said that, there does seem to be a
                              > culture of carelessness in this country. On Monday afternoon, I
                              > took a walk around Mala Strana, in the course of which I passed
                              the
                              > Wallenstein Palace, home of the Czech Senate. The building has
                              been
                              > beautifully renovated, but all that good work is marred by a
                              plaque
                              > in English that reads something like:
                              >
                              > 'From 1996, the palace is seat of upper house of Czech Parliament.'
                              >
                              > How is it that someone contracted to translate a plaque to go on
                              the
                              > Czech SENATE did not have a proper grasp of English tenses, i.e.
                              did
                              > not know to write 'Since...has been...' (we'll ignore the lesser
                              > mistakes)?
                              >
                              > Havel's offical site as President of the Czech Republic welcomed
                              > visitors to *the* Prague Castle.
                              >
                              > Strict about their own language, Czechs can be very lax with
                              English.
                              >
                              > Simon
                            • raesim
                              ... I suppose I meant that the laxity is in the assumption that all is well . I find it astonishing that someone assumed that the Senate plaque did not need
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "jsyeaton" <jsyeaton@y...> wrote:
                                > I don't think it's as much laxness as lack of experience.
                                >
                                > Now institutions (the National Museum, Lord help us!) order
                                > translations in all good faith from agencies that are ISO-
                                > certified (in some cases) and promise to have everything passed on
                                > by a native speaker, and assume all is well.

                                I suppose I meant that the laxity is in the assumption that 'all is
                                well'. I find it astonishing that someone assumed that the Senate
                                plaque did not need to be -- at least -- reviewed by a literate
                                native speaker.

                                > Americans are tolerant (to a fault) about the
                                > missuse of English,

                                Misuse. :-) I'm just trying not to a tolerant to a fault.

                                > the British are polite - but eventually somebody
                                > will let it out how funny some of these translations sound.

                                The tolerance and politeness of native speakers can lead Czechs (and
                                all foreigners for that matter) to overestimate their abilities in
                                English. Whereas the protectiveness of Czechs towards their
                                language can make foreign learners insecure, the laissez-faire
                                attitude of native English-speakers to English gives Czechs a false
                                sense of security.

                                Simon
                              • raesim
                                ... Of course, you d never catch me bungling my English. Simon
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                                  > > Americans are tolerant (to a fault) about the
                                  > > missuse of English,
                                  >
                                  > Misuse. :-) I'm just trying not to a tolerant to a fault.

                                  Of course, you'd never catch me bungling my English.

                                  Simon
                                • jsyeaton
                                  Yikes! J
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                                    Yikes!

                                    J


                                    > Misuse. :-) I'm just trying not to a tolerant to a fault.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Simon
                                  • Michael Grant
                                    ... I m not Czech, but I think adding neco before malo should do it for your first example. Michael -- With a heavy dose of fear and violence... I think
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                                      On Apr 1, 2004, at 6:34 AM, raesim wrote:

                                      > At the risk of inciting people to show off, I invite the Czechs on
                                      > the list to, like Faramir, 'show their quality' and tell us what's
                                      > wrong with the above translations and how to correct them.

                                      I'm not Czech, but I think adding 'neco' before 'malo' should do it for
                                      your first example.
                                      Michael

                                      --
                                      "With a heavy dose of fear and violence... I think we can convince these
                                      people that we are here to help them."

                                      - US Lt. Col. Nathan Sassaman in Iraq
                                    • Michael Grant
                                      ... Of course that s the same institution that once had a sign reading Please your luggage give to the wardrobe prominently displayed in its lobby.
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 1, 2004
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                                        On Apr 1, 2004, at 8:44 AM, jsyeaton wrote:

                                        > Now institutions (the National Museum, Lord help us!) order
                                        > translations in all good faith from agencies that are ISO-certified
                                        > (in some cases) and promise to have everything passed on by a native
                                        > speaker, and assume all is well.

                                        Of course that's the same institution that once had a sign reading

                                        Please your luggage
                                        give to the wardrobe

                                        prominently displayed in its lobby. (Admittedly, this was back in the
                                        bad old days, or shortly thereafter.)

                                        Michael
                                        who made a small donation just to keep his suitcase happy

                                        --
                                        Palm
                                        the space of rest
                                        the dress is raised. Long eitheruse of time does not become pain. It
                                        took a
                                        second look also
                                        the material, became feeling better.
                                      • spektrum2002
                                        Kdyby tam nebylo to began , tak bych napsal K vychodu prival vitr chlad od Mlznych hor . Takhle snad: Zacal byt citit chlad, ktery k vychodu prival vitr od
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 2, 2004
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                                          Kdyby tam nebylo to "began", tak bych napsal "K vychodu prival vitr
                                          chlad od Mlznych hor".
                                          Takhle snad: "Zacal byt citit chlad, ktery k vychodu prival vitr od
                                          Mlznych hor"
                                          Petr Adamek
                                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "raesim" <rachelandsimon@q...>
                                          >
                                          > A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the east.
                                          >
                                          > Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor k vychodu.
                                          >
                                          >> At the risk of inciting people to show off, I invite the Czechs on
                                          > the list to, like Faramir, 'show their quality' and tell us what's
                                          > wrong with the above translations and how to correct them.
                                          >
                                          > Simon
                                        • spektrum2002
                                          Dodatecne mne napadlo, ze chlad cisi (c^is^i ): K vychodu zacisel vetrem od Mlznych hor chlad. P.A. ... on ... what s
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Apr 2, 2004
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                                            Dodatecne mne napadlo, ze chlad "cisi" (c^is^i'):
                                            K vychodu zacisel vetrem od Mlznych hor chlad.
                                            P.A.
                                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "spektrum2002" <padamek@c...> wrote:
                                            > Kdyby tam nebylo to "began", tak bych napsal "K vychodu prival vitr
                                            > chlad od Mlznych hor".
                                            > Takhle snad: "Zacal byt citit chlad, ktery k vychodu prival vitr od
                                            > Mlznych hor"
                                            > Petr Adamek
                                            > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "raesim" <rachelandsimon@q...>
                                            > >
                                            > > A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the east.
                                            > >
                                            > > Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor k vychodu.
                                            > >
                                            > >> At the risk of inciting people to show off, I invite the Czechs
                                            on
                                            > > the list to, like Faramir, 'show their quality' and tell us
                                            what's
                                            > > wrong with the above translations and how to correct them.
                                            > >
                                            > > Simon
                                          • raesim
                                            ... Your versions may well work better than the original translation in other respects, but like it they make the mistake of assuming that the wind is blowing
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Apr 2, 2004
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                                              > > A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the east.
                                              > >
                                              > > Studeny vitr zacal vat od Mlznych hor k vychodu.

                                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "spektrum2002" <padamek@c...>
                                              wrote:
                                              > Kdyby tam nebylo to "began", tak bych napsal "K vychodu prival
                                              > vitr chlad od Mlznych hor".
                                              > Takhle snad: "Zacal byt citit chlad, ktery k vychodu prival vitr
                                              > od Mlznych hor"

                                              Your versions may well work better than the original translation in
                                              other respects, but like it they make the mistake of assuming that
                                              the wind is blowing to the east. It's blowing to the west, and we
                                              can be sure of this because the Fellowship is on the westward side
                                              of the mountains: climatic conditions on the other side are, at this
                                              stage of the story, irrelevant. You see, it's the mountains that
                                              are to the east of the Fellowship.

                                              Simon
                                            • spektrum2002
                                              A je ten smer vetru (tj. na zapad) jednoznacny pro NS, jenz nezna kontext, ktery uvadite? Cili: Znamena Wind blowing from the mountains to the west
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Apr 2, 2004
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                                                A je ten smer vetru (tj. na zapad) jednoznacny pro NS, jenz nezna
                                                kontext, ktery uvadite? Cili: Znamena "Wind blowing from the
                                                mountains to the west" jednoznacne "od hor lezicich na vychod"?
                                                Petr A.
                                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "raesim" <rachelandsimon@q...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > > > A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the east.

                                                they make the mistake of assuming that
                                                > the wind is blowing to the east. It's blowing to the west, and we
                                                > can be sure of this because the Fellowship is on the westward side
                                                > of the mountains: climatic conditions on the other side are, at
                                                this
                                                > stage of the story, irrelevant. You see, it's the mountains that
                                                > are to the east of the Fellowship.
                                                >
                                                > Simon
                                              • Rubkova
                                                As Simon has already said there is a map in the book. But the context seems to me obvious. Sarka ... From: spektrum2002 [mailto:padamek@chello.cz] Sent:
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Apr 2, 2004
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                                                  As Simon has already said there is a map in the book. But the context seems
                                                  to me obvious.

                                                  Sarka

                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: spektrum2002 [mailto:padamek@...]
                                                  Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:49 PM
                                                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Lawdy! (was: Translation Gems in Movies)


                                                  A je ten smer vetru (tj. na zapad) jednoznacny pro NS, jenz nezna
                                                  kontext, ktery uvadite? Cili: Znamena "Wind blowing from the
                                                  mountains to the west" jednoznacne "od hor lezicich na vychod"?
                                                  Petr A.
                                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "raesim" <rachelandsimon@q...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  > > > A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the east.

                                                  they make the mistake of assuming that
                                                  > the wind is blowing to the east. It's blowing to the west, and we
                                                  > can be sure of this because the Fellowship is on the westward side
                                                  > of the mountains: climatic conditions on the other side are, at
                                                  this
                                                  > stage of the story, irrelevant. You see, it's the mountains that
                                                  > are to the east of the Fellowship.
                                                  >
                                                  > Simon




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                                                • raesim
                                                  ... Not jednoznacne, but I would have assumed that that was the more likely meaning. Mountains to the east feels like a stronger connection than blow...to
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Apr 2, 2004
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                                                    > > > > A wind began to blow chill from the Misty Mountains to the
                                                    > > > > east.

                                                    --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "spektrum2002" <padamek@c...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    > A je ten smer vetru (tj. na zapad) jednoznacny pro NS, jenz nezna
                                                    > kontext, ktery uvadite? Cili: Znamena "Wind blowing from the
                                                    > mountains to the [east]" jednoznacne "od hor lezicich na vychod"?
                                                    > Petr A.

                                                    Not jednoznacne, but I would have assumed that that was the more
                                                    likely meaning. 'Mountains to the east' feels like a stronger
                                                    connection than 'blow...to the east'. Had the author intended the
                                                    other meaning, I would have expected another construction:

                                                    A west wind [i.e. coming from the west] began to blow chill from...
                                                    A chill wind began to blow east from...
                                                    A wind began to blow chill to the east from...

                                                    But the point is that the translator had the full context (including
                                                    a map); she just failed to think.

                                                    Simon
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