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Re: [Czechlist] Re: Food versus foodstuff

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  • andeds@aol.com
    In a message dated 2/3/04 11:22:58 AM GMT Standard Time, karel6005@hotmail.com writes:
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
      In a message dated 2/3/04 11:22:58 AM GMT Standard Time,
      karel6005@... writes:

      << In the very end I conclude that I would go for "food". I am curious
      on responses from English native speakers.
      >>

      On an everyday level we talk about "pet food".

      More formally, and in more specialised contexts, it's "animal feed".

      Has anyone else met the term "feedstuffs" - not really a proper English word,
      but I did discover it in an EU Directive a few years ago. I used it in one
      translation only, because the document was referring to that EU Directive.

      "Fodder" sounds very agricultural and I associate it especially with cattle,
      i.e. you wouldn't, of course, give fodder to a cat or dog.

      Dylan
    • Petr Veselý
      Many thanks, Karel and Dylan, ... I started with feed but I replaced it by fodder in order not to confuse it with food. I thought that fodder and feed
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
        Many thanks, Karel and Dylan,

        > wrote:
        > > "krmivo zivocisneho / rostlinneho puvodu"; is it correct to say
        > animal / vegetable fodder
        >
        > Incorrect. "Fodder" = "objemne krmivo" (cf. "jadrne krmivo"
        > or "koncentraty" or "(krmne) smesi" or the like).
        >
        > "Feed" is the correct word.

        I started with "feed" but I replaced it by fodder in order not to confuse it
        with food. I thought that "fodder" and "feed" are more or less synonyms.
        However, the term "krmivo" used in the document refers mostly to the feeding
        of cattle (sometimes chickens). It doesn't not refer to pet food.
        Would the "fodder" be inappropriate in this context too?
        >
        > "Animal feed" = "krmivo pro zvirata" (but this is IMHO a pleonasm,
        > of course "feed" is not for humans!)
        >
        The problem is, even though it is clear that feed is not aimed for people,
        IMHO, the term "animal feed" just indicates (as you translated it) that it
        is aimed for animals, however, we don't know if the feed is made of animals
        or plants. This difference is the heart of the matter here, they
        differentiate "krmivo rostlinneho puvodu" and "krmivo zivocisneho puvodu" so
        I will continue using "feed of animal origin" rather than "animal feed".


        Petr
      • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
        ... They are synonyms, except that we use fodder in many metaphorical ways that we don t use feed . For example, soldiers in an army that is sent to fight
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
          In a message dated 2/3/2004 7:38:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, veselypetr@... writes:

          > I started with "feed" but I replaced it by fodder in order not to confuse it
          > with food. I thought that "fodder" and "feed" are more or less synonyms.

          They are synonyms, except that we use "fodder" in many metaphorical ways that we don't use "feed". For example, soldiers in an army that is sent to fight even though everyone knows they are sure to lose are called "cannon fodder".

          > However, the term "krmivo" used in the document refers mostly to the feeding
          > of cattle (sometimes chickens). It doesn't not refer to pet food.

          Then I think that in the US the most common word to use would be "feed".

          > Would the "fodder" be inappropriate in this context too?

          No, but it would be less common (at least in my country).

          > > "Animal feed" = "krmivo pro zvirata" (but this is IMHO a pleonasm,
          > > of course "feed" is not for humans!)

          It may be a pleonasm, but that doesn't mean it is wrong. It's very, very common, and it doesn't sound wrong to people. It's clearer than just "feed", even though all feed is for animals. (I won't get into the discourse-based reasons why it sounds fine and is used.)

          > The problem is, even though it is clear that feed is not aimed for people,
          > IMHO, the term "animal feed" just indicates (as you translated it) that it
          > is aimed for animals, however, we don't know if the feed is made of animals
          > or plants.

          "Animal feed" does not indicate that the feed is made of animals. It just means it's for animals. If animal feed is for cows, we know it surely doesn't contain animal content. If it's for tigers, we are sure it is partly made of meat.

          >This difference is the heart of the matter here, they
          > differentiate "krmivo rostlinneho puvodu" and "krmivo zivocisneho puvodu" so

          These would be better described as "vegetable-based feed" or "grain-based feed" or "plant-based feed" (depending on how specific you can get, the last being more general) and "animal-based feed".


          Jamie
        • karel6005
          ... the feeding of cattle (sometimes chickens). Would the fodder be inappropriate in this context too? Definitely. You don t feed chickens with fodder.
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Petr Veselý <veselypetr@p...>
            wrote:
            > However, the term "krmivo" used in the document refers mostly to
            the feeding of cattle (sometimes chickens). Would the "fodder" be
            inappropriate in this context too?

            Definitely. You don't feed chickens with fodder. Fodder is grass,
            alfalfa, clover, hay, silage, haylage and the like. Dairy cows
            normally eat fodder plus concentrates. Concentrates are not fodder.
            Fodder plus concentrates = feed.

            BR

            Karel
          • andeds@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/3/04 12:41:11 PM GMT Standard Time, veselypetr@post.cz writes:
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
              In a message dated 2/3/04 12:41:11 PM GMT Standard Time, veselypetr@...
              writes:

              << However, the term "krmivo" used in the document refers mostly to the
              feeding
              of cattle (sometimes chickens). >>

              "Feed" is the best bet.
              I wouldn't use "fodder" for chickens. Fodder is grassy stuff for grazing
              animals (in its literal sense, leaving aside all the metaphorical meanings).

              "Chicken feed" is a standard collocation, and it appears as a separate entry
              in the Oxford English Dictionary, which defines it as "food for poultry".
              (Leaving aside, once again, the metaphorical meaning, "a paltry sum of money").

              Dylan
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