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Re: interni lekarstvi prvniho stupne/druheho stupne

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  • Michal Ginter
    Coilin, it refers to atestace, which is a concept similar to board approval or board certification. A grossly simplified explanation would be: you may
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 9, 2003
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      Coilin,

      it refers to "atestace," which is a concept similar to "board
      approval" or "board certification." A grossly simplified explanation
      would be: you may not practice medicine independently when you're
      fresh out of medical school. You'll first have to work under
      supervision, gain experience, learn a bit more, and then pass a board
      approval exam. There are two levels of board approvals.

      So, I'd say "first board certification in internal medicine"
      and "second board certification in general medicine."

      See also http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2376.html
      Hope this helps,

      Michal



      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "coilinoc" <coilinoc@y...> wrote:
      > Hi there folks,
      > Could anyone explain to me what is meant precisely by prvni/druhy
      > stupen in this context? It refers to a doctor's qualification in a
      > post-graduate medical diploma.
      > MTIA
      > Coilin
    • coilinoc
      Thanks for helping clear that up, Michal Coilin ... explanation ... board ... prvni/druhy ... in a
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 14, 2003
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        Thanks for helping clear that up, Michal
        Coilin
        > it refers to "atestace," which is a concept similar to "board
        > approval" or "board certification." A grossly simplified
        explanation
        > would be: you may not practice medicine independently when you're
        > fresh out of medical school. You'll first have to work under
        > supervision, gain experience, learn a bit more, and then pass a
        board
        > approval exam. There are two levels of board approvals.
        >
        > So, I'd say "first board certification in internal medicine"
        > and "second board certification in general medicine."
        >
        > See also http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2376.html
        > Hope this helps,
        >
        > Michal
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "coilinoc" <coilinoc@y...> wrote:
        > > Hi there folks,
        > > Could anyone explain to me what is meant precisely by
        prvni/druhy
        > > stupen in this context? It refers to a doctor's qualification
        in a
        > > post-graduate medical diploma.
        > > MTIA
        > > Coilin
      • Rubková
        Hi Listmates, thanks to all who contributed to the taste-scape issue. Now I have another problem: Does any of you know what means the following
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 14, 2003
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          Hi Listmates,

          thanks to all who contributed to the "taste-scape" issue.

          Now I have another problem: Does any of you know what means the following
          term:"high-back long-acre" ploughing? It is used in Denmark...

          Thanks

          Sarka
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        • melvyn.geo
          ... Hi Sarka, I believe that long-acre farming is basically strip-farming (pestovani plodin v pasech - Krivka & Ruzicka) so would it be possible to say
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 14, 2003
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            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Rubková <rubkova@l...> wrote:
            >"high-back long-acre" ploughing? It is used in Denmark...

            Hi Sarka,

            I believe that long-acre farming is basically strip-farming (pestovani plodin v pasech - Krivka & Ruzicka) so would it be possible to say 'orba/obdelavani v pasech'?

            ...strip farming, or long-acre farming in
            the north. Each strip was roughly one acre in size.
            mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/ wc1/lectures/22manor.html

            Can't imagine what these high backs are, unless each acre was kinda low at the front and high at the back (but that is just wild guessing). Any clues from the context?

            M.
          • Rubková
            Hi again, I have another agricultural terms I am not sure about. What is an ard and what is ridge and furrow ploughing system ? I know what ridge and
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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              Hi again,

              I have another agricultural terms I am not sure about.

              What is an "ard" and what is "ridge and furrow ploughing system"? I know
              what "ridge" and furrow" are but I don't the Czech name for this system. If
              anybody is, by chance" familiar with it, just let me know.

              Thanks,

              Sarka

              -----Original Message-----
              From: melvyn.geo [mailto:zehrovak@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:38 AM
              To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Czechlist] Re: zemedelskX terim


              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Rubková <rubkova@l...> wrote:
              >"high-back long-acre" ploughing? It is used in Denmark...

              Hi Sarka,

              I believe that long-acre farming is basically strip-farming (pestovani
              plodin v pasech - Krivka & Ruzicka) so would it be possible to say
              'orba/obdelavani v pasech'?

              ...strip farming, or long-acre farming in
              the north. Each strip was roughly one acre in size.
              mars.acnet.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/ wc1/lectures/22manor.html

              Can't imagine what these high backs are, unless each acre was kinda low at
              the front and high at the back (but that is just wild guessing). Any clues
              from the context?

              M.








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            • Michael L. Grant
              The dictionaries say obcan means citizen, but the word is very frequently used in contexts where it is clear that the author doesn t have the color of the
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                The dictionaries say 'obcan' means citizen, but the word is very
                frequently used in contexts where it is clear that the author doesn't
                have the color of the person's passport in mind. In legal documents,
                does the word 'obcan' have any restrictive sense at all, or does it
                really just mean 'individual' or 'person'? In other words, are there
                any circumstances in which someone might assert that certain statutory
                or contractual provisions do not apply because that person is not an
                'obcan'?

                Thanks,
                Michael

                --
                Peace is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice.
              • Matej Klimes
                Give us an example, Michael... Obcan is IMHO overused to mean member of the public , someone who voted = and should get something back, a person who lives
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                  Give us an example, Michael...

                  Obcan is IMHO overused to mean "member of the public", someone who voted =
                  and should get something back, a person who lives somewhere, even a local
                  resident (as in - policie v nasem obvode nic nedela a obcane si stezuji)....

                  I think obcan in a legal doc implies a (physical) person - rather than a
                  company or other legal poerson, but I can't think of an example where is
                  would be restrictive (to a certain legal status, or citizenship of a certain
                  country)...

                  examples that spring to mind that would be restrictive, but only with the
                  extra info given:

                  obcan Ceske republiky, obcane EU, obcane jinych statu...

                  M




                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Michael L. Grant" <trans@...>
                  To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 11:25 AM
                  Subject: [Czechlist] TERM: obcan


                  > The dictionaries say 'obcan' means citizen, but the word is very
                  > frequently used in contexts where it is clear that the author doesn't
                  > have the color of the person's passport in mind. In legal documents,
                  > does the word 'obcan' have any restrictive sense at all, or does it
                  > really just mean 'individual' or 'person'? In other words, are there
                  > any circumstances in which someone might assert that certain statutory
                  > or contractual provisions do not apply because that person is not an
                  > 'obcan'?
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  > Michael
                  >
                  > --
                  > Peace is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Visit the Czechlist Homepage at: http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                • Helga Humlova
                  Hi Michael, I would say that obcan (Buerger in German) is a restrictive term. E.g. only a statni prisluznik ceske republiky has an obcansky prukaz ,
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                    Hi Michael,

                    I would say that "obcan" (Buerger in German) is a restrictive term. E.g.
                    only a "statni prisluznik ceske republiky" has an "obcansky prukaz",
                    foreigners have a "prukaz o povoleni k pobytu pro cizince" (which is the
                    equivalent of an "obcansky prukaz" as we all know). I also found on some
                    occasions the phrase "jen pro obcane ceske republiky" which meant "only for
                    statni prisluzniky CR".
                    I would say, that the reason why "obcan" is used as a general word for
                    "individual or person" is simply because most people living in a certain
                    country are "citizens" of the particular country.

                    Just one sample to be found in the "Civil Service Law"
                    http://www.ecn.cz/tandit/uic/legisl/1992-018.htm . When they talk about an
                    "obcan" and his responsibilities they definitely only refer to "statni
                    prisluzniky CR".

                    Hope this helps
                    H.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Michael L. Grant [mailto:trans@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 11:26 AM
                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Czechlist] TERM: obcan


                    The dictionaries say 'obcan' means citizen, but the word is very
                    frequently used in contexts where it is clear that the author doesn't
                    have the color of the person's passport in mind. In legal documents,
                    does the word 'obcan' have any restrictive sense at all, or does it
                    really just mean 'individual' or 'person'? In other words, are there
                    any circumstances in which someone might assert that certain statutory
                    or contractual provisions do not apply because that person is not an
                    'obcan'?

                    Thanks,
                    Michael





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Michael L. Grant
                    ... Společnost je oprávněna zdravotní stav občana přezkoumávat, a to na základě zpráv vyžádaných s jeho souhlasem od zdravotnických zařízení,
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                      On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 04:37 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                      > Give us an example, Michael...

                      "Společnost je oprávněna zdravotní stav občana přezkoumávat, a to na
                      základě zpráv vyžádaných s jeho souhlasem od zdravotnických zařízení,
                      ve kterých se léčil, jakož i prohlídkou lékařem, kterého mu sama určí."

                      M

                      --
                      I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging
                      professional whiners.
                      - Berkeley Breathed
                    • Matej Klimes
                      IMHO this only implies the obcan in question is a Czech citizen by the way it touches on some Czech-specific problems...:) But lots of non-Czech citizens with
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                        IMHO this only implies the obcan in question is a Czech citizen by the way
                        it touches on some Czech-specific problems...:)

                        But lots of non-Czech citizens with legal residency here (employed or
                        self-employed) have the same medicare as I or anybody else does - so this
                        goes for them as well - I don't see any restriction that should be
                        translated here....

                        M


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Michael L. Grant" <trans@...>
                        To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:47 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Czechlist] TERM: obcan


                        > On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 04:37 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                        >
                        > > Give us an example, Michael...
                        >
                        > "Společnost je oprávněna zdravotní stav občana přezkoumávat, a to na
                        > základě zpráv vyžádaných s jeho souhlasem od zdravotnických zařízení,
                        > ve kterých se léčil, jakož i prohlídkou lékařem, kterého mu sama určí."
                        >
                        > M
                        >
                        > --
                        > I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging
                        > professional whiners.
                        > - Berkeley Breathed
                        >
                        >
                        > Visit the Czechlist Homepage at: http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                        >
                      • Michael L. Grant
                        ... I guess what it comes down to is whether there is any reason that individual might not be an acceptable translation, since citizen isn t used in this
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                          On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 05:53 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                          > But lots of non-Czech citizens with legal residency here (employed or
                          > self-employed) have the same medicare as I or anybody else does - so
                          > this
                          > goes for them as well - I don't see any restriction that should be
                          > translated here....

                          I guess what it comes down to is whether there is any reason that
                          'individual' might not be an acceptable translation, since 'citizen'
                          isn't used in this loose fashion in English.

                          Michael

                          --
                          Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education,
                          free medical care, free whatever? It comes from Moscow, from Russia. It
                          comes straight out of the pit of hell.

                          - Debbie Riddle, Texas House of Representatives
                        • Matej Klimes
                          I think it is a very acceptable translation in general - patient, customer, etc. would IMHO also work in this particular case (dependiong on what kind of
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                            I think it is a very acceptable translation in general - patient, customer,
                            etc. would IMHO also work in this particular case (dependiong on what kind
                            of spolecnost it is)

                            M


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Michael L. Grant" <trans@...>
                            To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 1:27 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Czechlist] TERM: obcan


                            > On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 05:53 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                            >
                            > > But lots of non-Czech citizens with legal residency here (employed or
                            > > self-employed) have the same medicare as I or anybody else does - so
                            > > this
                            > > goes for them as well - I don't see any restriction that should be
                            > > translated here....
                            >
                            > I guess what it comes down to is whether there is any reason that
                            > 'individual' might not be an acceptable translation, since 'citizen'
                            > isn't used in this loose fashion in English.
                            >
                            > Michael
                            >
                            > --
                            > Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education,
                            > free medical care, free whatever? It comes from Moscow, from Russia. It
                            > comes straight out of the pit of hell.
                            >
                            > - Debbie Riddle, Texas House of Representatives
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Visit the Czechlist Homepage at: http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                          • melvyn.geo
                            ... This might possibly help: http://www.keystothepast.info/durhamcc/K2P.nsf/ Ards were used in prehistory to plough fields. Unlike modern ploughs, which turn
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Rubková <rubkova@l...> wrote:

                              > What is an "ard" and what is "ridge and furrow ploughing system"? I know
                              > what "ridge" and furrow" are but I don't the Czech name for this system. If
                              > anybody is, by chance" familiar with it, just let me know.
                              >

                              This might possibly help:

                              http://www.keystothepast.info/durhamcc/K2P.nsf/


                              Ards were used in prehistory to plough fields. Unlike modern ploughs, which turn over the soil, ards only broke it up. Double ploughing in opposite directions was therefore necessary, and this criss- cross pattern is visible in= aerial photographs of Iron Age settlements.

                              Ridge and furrow
                              The remains of ridge and furrow can be seen across many areas of Northumberland and Durham. It results from a method of cultivation that was used throughout the medieval (1066-1540) period and later. It is commonly identified by the broad reverse s-shaped undulations that were created by ox drawn plough, cutting and turning the soil over. The ox team needed plenty of space to turn at the end of each furrow because, by ploughing in a slight curve, the plough could start to turn before the furrow had been completed, this enabled it to be turned and brought back around into the curve of the preceding ridge.

                              Post-medieval (1540-1901) ridge and furrow was created by steam driven plough. The steam driven plough did not require so much space to turn, so it has narrower and straighter ridges and furrows.

                              M.
                            • vollams
                              Hi List, Any medics out there who could help me with the above term? Is it a fancy name for a stroke? Simon
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                                Hi List,

                                Any medics out there who could help me with the above term? Is it a
                                fancy name for a stroke?

                                Simon
                              • Michael L. Grant
                                ... Not a medic, but Yes. The expression cerebral vascular accident (or incident ) does exist. You must be translating the same kinda stuff I am. Michael --
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                                  On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 11:20 AM, vollams wrote:

                                  > Any medics out there who could help me with the above term? Is it a
                                  > fancy name for a stroke?

                                  Not a medic, but Yes. The expression "cerebral vascular accident" (or
                                  "incident") does exist.

                                  You must be translating the same kinda stuff I am.

                                  Michael
                                  --
                                  katerihwaiénstha'
                                • mj
                                  cerebral strokes hth Martin ... From: vollams To: Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:20 PM Subject:
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                                    cerebral strokes
                                    hth
                                    Martin

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "vollams" <vollams@...>
                                    To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:20 PM
                                    Subject: [Czechlist] TERM: mozkove cevni prihody


                                    > Hi List,
                                    >
                                    > Any medics out there who could help me with the above term? Is it a
                                    > fancy name for a stroke?
                                    >
                                    > Simon
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Visit the Czechlist Homepage at: http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • vollams
                                    ... Yes, I get plenty of Google hits for that one. Cheers! Simon
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                                      > > Any medics out there who could help me with the above term? Is it a
                                      > > fancy name for a stroke?
                                      >
                                      > Not a medic, but Yes. The expression "cerebral vascular accident" (or
                                      > "incident") does exist.

                                      Yes, I get plenty of Google hits for that one.

                                      Cheers!

                                      Simon
                                    • Rubková
                                      Hi, any Irish out there? Can you explain me, what was it? As fas as I understand from the text it had something to do with alcohol smuggling or illegal
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                                        Hi, any Irish out there?

                                        Can you explain me, what was it? As fas as I understand from the text it had
                                        something to do with alcohol smuggling or illegal production of alcohol in
                                        Ireland. Is it so?

                                        Sarka
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                                      • coilinoc
                                        ... text it had ... alcohol in ... Hi Sarka, I have never heard of pointin in this context. Perhaps it is a typo for (or a foreigner s poorly remembered
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Rubková <rubkova@l...> wrote:
                                          > Hi, any Irish out there?
                                          >
                                          > Can you explain me, what was it? As fas as I understand from the
                                          text it had
                                          > something to do with alcohol smuggling or illegal production of
                                          alcohol in
                                          > Ireland. Is it so?
                                          >
                                          > Sarka

                                          Hi Sarka,
                                          I have never heard of pointin' in this context. Perhaps it is a
                                          typo for (or a foreigner's poorly remembered rendition of)"poitin"
                                          (with a "fada" or accent over the second "i"), which is kind oflike
                                          Irish moonshine. (You'll find it spelt in an English dictionary
                                          as "potcheen", which is a fairly phonetic transliteration of the
                                          original Irish or Gaeilge)
                                          HTH
                                          Coilin
                                        • mike trittipo
                                          ... Are there ever ever? From the following, it would seem yes, although the circumstances would seem limited: USNESENÍ předsednictva České národní
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Oct 15, 2003
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                                            Michael L. Grant wrote:

                                            >. . . In legal documents,
                                            >does the word 'obcan' have any restrictive sense at all, or does it
                                            >really just mean 'individual' or 'person'? In other words, are there
                                            >any circumstances in which someone might assert that certain statutory
                                            >or contractual provisions do not apply because that person is not an
                                            >'obcan'?
                                            >
                                            Are there ever ever? From the following, it would seem "yes," although
                                            the circumstances would seem limited:

                                            USNESENÍ
                                            předsednictva České národní rady
                                            ze dne 16. prosince 1992 o vyhlášení
                                            LISTINY ZÁKLADNÍCH PRÁV A SVOBOD
                                            jako součásti ústavního pořádku České republiky.
                                            Ústavní zákon č. 2/1993 Sb. ve znění ústavního zákona č. 162/1998 Sb.
                                            . . .
                                            Hlava šestá - Ustanovení společná
                                            . . . Článek 42
                                            (1) Pokud Listina používá pojmu "občan", rozumí se tím státní občan
                                            České a Slovenské Federativní Republiky.
                                            (2) Cizinci používají v České a Slovenské Federativní Republice lidských
                                            práv a základních svobod zaručených Listinou, pokud nejsou přiznána
                                            výslovně občanům.
                                            (3) Pokud dosavadní předpisy používají pojmu "občan", rozumí se tím
                                            každý člověk, jde-li o základní práva a svobody, které Listina přiznává
                                            bez ohledu na státní občanství.

                                            Note also the distinction here:

                                            11. Ústava České republiky byla přijata dne 16. prosince 1992. Článek 1
                                            uvádí:
                                            Česká republika je svrchovaný, jednotný a demokratický právní stát
                                            založený na úctě
                                            k právům a svobodám člověka a občana.

                                            And some of the commentary:

                                            40. Jistá omezení v hlavě první (základních lidských práv a svobod)
                                            Listiny se objevují pouze
                                            v článku 11, který se týká vlastnictví. V odstavci 2 se totiž uvádí, že
                                            zákon může stanovit, že
                                            určité věci mohou být pouze ve vlastnictví občanů nebo právnických osob
                                            se sídlem v České
                                            republice, což však nemá vztah k právům zaručeným tímto Paktem. Pokud
                                            jde o práva
                                            politická, je každému – tedy i cizincům – zaručena svoboda projevu a
                                            právo na informace
                                            (článek 17), petiční právo (článek 18), právo pokojně se shromažďovat
                                            (článek 19) a právo
                                            pokojně se sdružovat (článek 20, odstavec 1). Pouze občanům však Listina
                                            zaručuje právo
                                            zakládat politické strany a hnutí a sdružovat se v nich (článek 20,
                                            odstavec 2), podílet se na
                                            správě věcí veřejných přímo nebo svobodnou volbou svých zástupců (článek
                                            21) a postavit se
                                            na odpor proti každému, kdo by odstraňoval demokratický řád lidských
                                            práv a základních
                                            svobod, založený Listinou (článek 23).

                                            Finally, see also, from
                                            http://www.mvcr.cz/casopisy/s/2001/5152/konz2.html (VEŘEJNÁ SPRÁVA --
                                            TÝDENÍK VLÁDY ČESKÉ REPUBLIKY):

                                            Podle § 19 odst. 2 má řád veřejného pohřebiště umožňovat stejné podmínky
                                            pro sjednání nájmu hrobového místa pro všechny občany. Otázkou je, co
                                            zákon míní pojmem “občan”. Chtěl-li zákonodárce vyjádřit, že
                                            provozovatel veřejného pohřebiště má mít zákonnou povinnost sjednávat
                                            smlouvy o nájmu hrobových míst a dalších službách s tím spojených se
                                            všemi účastníky právních vztahů za stejných podmínek (a tyto podmínky má
                                            obsahovat právě řád veřejného pohřebiště), pak je otázkou, proč užil
                                            pojmu “občan” a nikoliv pojmu “fyzická, popř. právnická osoba” podle § 7
                                            a násl. občanského zákoníku. Pojem “občan” byl občanským zákoníkem již
                                            před několika lety opuštěn a má nyní ve smyslu dalších zákonů (např.
                                            zákon o státním občanství nebo zákon o obcích) význam zcela jiný. Je
                                            otázkou, měl-li zákonodárce pod tímto pojmem na mysli “občana obce” ve
                                            smyslu § 16 odst. 1 zákona o obcích a chtěl-li tedy vyjádřit, že obec,
                                            která je provozovatelem pohřebiště, má stejné podmínky pro sjednání
                                            nájmu hrobového místa umožňovat všem svým občanům, zatímco k ostatním
                                            fyzickým osobám, které status občana obce nemají, může přistupovat
                                            odlišně. Zdá se nicméně, že zákonodárce měl na mysli první variantu,
                                            neboť v § 20 písm. b) je stanoveno, že provozovatel pohřebiště je
                                            povinen stanovit stejné podmínky pro sjednání nájmu hrobového místa pro
                                            každého nájemce (pojem “občan” už se tu nepoužívá). V každém případě by
                                            ale skutečnost, že řád veřejného pohřebiště má obsahovat podmínky pro
                                            sjednávání nájmů, nasvědčovala tomu, že má být aktem povahy
                                            soukromoprávní (smluvní podmínky nemusí být akceptovány a pak smlouva
                                            nevznikne).
                                          • Michael L. Grant
                                            ... So as in so many things, the answer seems to be, It s complicated. Would you agree, then, that: 1. Neither citizen nor any similar English word in this
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Oct 16, 2003
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                                              On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 09:52 PM, mike trittipo wrote:

                                              >> . . . In legal documents,
                                              >> does the word 'obcan' have any restrictive sense at all, or does it
                                              >> really just mean 'individual' or 'person'? In other words, are there
                                              >> any circumstances in which someone might assert that certain statutory
                                              >> or contractual provisions do not apply because that person is not an
                                              >> 'obcan'?
                                              >>
                                              > Are there ever ever? From the following, it would seem "yes," although
                                              > the circumstances would seem limited:

                                              So as in so many things, the answer seems to be, "It's complicated."
                                              Would you agree, then, that:
                                              1. Neither 'citizen' nor any similar English word in this context
                                              carries the same ambiguity;
                                              2. 'Individual' is a reasonable and accurate rendering in those cases
                                              where 'obcan' is not intended to refer either to "statni prislusnost"
                                              or "obcanstvi obce";
                                              3. Recognizing whether 'obcan' is intended to mean "individual" (or
                                              "natural person", etc.), "citizen" or "member of the community" is a
                                              matter of the translator's professional judgment and (yikes!) knowledge
                                              of Czech law?

                                              Michael

                                              --
                                              "You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change
                                              something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."

                                              - Buckminster Fuller
                                            • Michael
                                              ... I d agree with all three. I wasn t meaning to muddy the waters with the quotations; only responding to the at all and any 0% or 100%, to say there may
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Oct 16, 2003
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                                                Previously:
                                                >> . . . any restrictive sense at all, or . . . really just . . .?
                                                >> any circumstances . . . might assert . . .?
                                                > Are there ever ever? From . . ..

                                                MG:
                                                | Would you agree, then, that:
                                                | 1. Neither 'citizen' nor any similar English word in this context
                                                | carries the same ambiguity;
                                                | 2. 'Individual' is a reasonable and accurate rendering in
                                                | those cases where 'obcan' is not intended . . .
                                                | 3. Recognizing whether 'obcan' is intended to mean . . . is a
                                                | matter of . . . judgment and (yikes!) knowledge of Czech law?

                                                I'd agree with all three. I wasn't meaning to muddy the waters with
                                                the quotations; only responding to the "at all" and "any" 0% or 100%,
                                                to say there may be some times, even if not frequent.

                                                But hey, waddya mean "yikes!" anywayz, huh? Dat's normal, dontcha
                                                tink? Dintcha mom never tellyuz what howzabout "neznalost zákona
                                                neomlouvá" (ignorantia iuris non excusat)? :-)

                                                Yours, returning to work, whistling the
                                                tune from Starci and klarinety:
                                                "Jenom ze, obcane, taky makame!"

                                                (P.S. Apologies for any duplicates; I thought I'd sent this a couple
                                                hours ago.)
                                              • Michael L. Grant
                                                ... Belated thanks vsem obcankam i obcanum who helped or commented! Michael -- Peace is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice.
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Oct 20, 2003
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                                                  On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 07:32 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:

                                                  > I think it is a very acceptable translation in general - patient,
                                                  > customer,
                                                  > etc. would IMHO also work in this particular case (dependiong on what
                                                  > kind
                                                  > of spolecnost it is)

                                                  Belated thanks vsem obcankam i obcanum who helped or commented!
                                                  Michael

                                                  --
                                                  Peace is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice.
                                                • Matej Klimes
                                                  No worries mate, It was our obcanska povinnost :) M ... From: Michael L. Grant To: Sent: Tuesday, October
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Oct 24, 2003
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                                                    No worries mate,

                                                    It was our "obcanska povinnost" :)

                                                    M


                                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                                    From: "Michael L. Grant" <trans@...>
                                                    To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                                    Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:17 AM
                                                    Subject: THANKS Re: [Czechlist] TERM: obcan


                                                    > On Wednesday, October 15, 2003, at 07:32 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > > I think it is a very acceptable translation in general - patient,
                                                    > > customer,
                                                    > > etc. would IMHO also work in this particular case (dependiong on what
                                                    > > kind
                                                    > > of spolecnost it is)
                                                    >
                                                    > Belated thanks vsem obcankam i obcanum who helped or commented!
                                                    > Michael
                                                    >
                                                    > --
                                                    > Peace is not the absence of war, but the presence of justice.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > Visit the Czechlist Homepage at: http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation
                                                    >
                                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                    >
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