Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Czechlist] TERM: realie, was Re: Czechlist

Expand Messages
  • Darian and Veronika
    Je pense qu il faut employer l expression les actualites. ... From: melvyn.geo To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:14 PM
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Je pense qu'il faut employer l'expression "les actualites."
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: melvyn.geo
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:14 PM
      Subject: [Czechlist] TERM: realie, was Re: Czechlist


      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
      >
      In a message dated 10/1/03 8:51:37 AM, jan.vanek.jr@s... writes:

      > Which reminds me, I occasionally need to express the Czech
      >concept of "rea'lie" in English and so far I have always failed, or >had to circumscribe it long-windedly.

      I find that in practice I have only ever had to deal with the idea of 'realia' in texts aimed at TEFL teachers. I wouldn't normally hesitate to use the word in such contexts because it is succinct and in my experience the target audience is very likely to be familiar with it. Elsewhere I might consider putting it in inverted commas if context gives the non-TEFL reader a sporting chance of deducing what the writer is on about, which is not that difficult after all.

      Old Poldauf suggests 'life and institutions'. Some combination of 'life', 'institutions', '(popular) culture', 'customs', 'conventions' or even 'civilization' (used by a teacher friend at International House) might be considered.

      Not so sure about 'pragmatics' as an equivalent. I thought that pragmatics was basically the study of meaning, not as generated by the linguistic system but as conveyed and manipulated by the participants in particular communicative situations, e.g. "It's getting very hot in here" = "Mind if I open a window?" or "Goodness! Is that the time?" = "I'm out of here!". Implicature and that. Or am I talking through my hat, Jamie?



      M.




      Visit the Czechlist Homepage at: http://www.bohemica.com/czechtranslation

      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      ... I think you re talking about discourse analysis, rather than pragmatics. I think pragmatics mainly deals with information about culture or the real world
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        In a message dated 10/1/03 10:02:09 PM, bezdomovci@... writes:

        >   Not so sure about 'pragmatics' as an equivalent. I thought that
        > pragmatics was basically the study of meaning, not as generated by the linguistic
        > system but as conveyed and manipulated by the participants in particular
        > communicative situations, e.g. "It's getting very hot in here" = "Mind if I open a
        > window?" or "Goodness! Is that the time?" = "I'm out of here!". Implicature and
        > that. Or am I talking through my hat, Jamie?
        >
        I think you're talking about discourse analysis, rather than pragmatics. I
        think pragmatics mainly deals with information about culture or the real world
        that is necessary to interpret a text. Pragmatics would deal with why many
        of my ESL students can't make sense out of a text like this:

        It was the day of the big party. Jennifer wondered if Tom would
        like a kite.
        She went to her room and shook her piggy bank. There was no
        sound.

        Students recently arrived from Vietnam or China get almost nothing out of
        this, even if they understand every word. Some students from the Middle East
        think that Tom and Jennifer are adults, that the party is a wedding, and that
        there is no sound because the wedding guests have not arrived yet. One guy
        from Macedonia thought that there was no sound because the wind wasn't blowing,
        and so they could not fly the kite. The students knew all the words in the
        text, but they lacked certain practical and cultural information necessary to
        interpret them. That kind of cultural and factual subtext is what is studied
        in the field of pragmatics.

        Since I wrote my last e-mail, it's hit me that "reálie" in Czech does not
        exactly mean the same thing as "realia" in English. The way I usually hear the
        term used in English, it means "authentic" texts or materials brought into the
        classroom from the real world. So, the ESL teacher who empties his backpack
        in front of the class and discusses the contents with the class is using
        "realia". Likewise, the teacher who brings instruction manuals or cookbooks into
        a class, or uses real radio advertisements as listening exercises is
        employing "realia", but this is not "reálie", as far as I know.

        When I talk about the reálie I had to know for my statnice, I usually call it
        in English "cultural information", since it was a mash of history, specific
        locations of the monuments to different Czech artists I had never heard of,
        identifying kroje by region even though most Czechs can't do it, etc.

        Basically, "reálie" is cultural subject matter to be learned, and "realia"
        are teaching tools dragged in from real life.

        Jamie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.