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TERM: realie, was Re: Czechlist

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  • janvanek
    ... bad crash ... Which reminds me, I occasionally need to express the Czech concept of rea lie in English and so far I have always failed, or had to
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@m...> wrote:

      > Pink Tanks and Velvet Hangovers [...]
      > an amusing
      > collection of stereotypes from the beginning to the end, but not a
      bad crash
      > course in (very elementary) Czech history and (then) realia,

      Which reminds me, I occasionally need to express the Czech concept
      of "rea'lie" in English and so far I have always failed, or had to
      circumscribe it long-windedly. Is "realia" indeed the Columbus egg
      that would be comprehensible to a NS without rather associating
      medieval scholasticism (dictionaries didn't seem to suggest so)? Or
      what solution can mighty brains of the listmembers come up with?

      THANKS in advance (I don't want to clutter the conference with them
      post factum)

      --
      Jan Vanek jr.

      malyctenar.blogspot.com - dokazi Lidove noviny najit cestu z _(a)
      translating dead end_, i kdyz se jim pomuze s _road map_?
    • Zemedelec@aol.com
      ... problems or something, and expected his hapless students to absorb the language somehow.   He nearly had this woman out of a job, considering she was in
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
        In a message dated 10/1/03 5:46:49, JPKIRCHNER@... writes:
        >
        > The guy mainly stood up in front of the class, talked about his girlfriend
        problems or something, and expected his hapless students to absorb the
        language
        somehow.   He nearly had this woman out of a job, considering she was in a
        small
        town with bad rail connections and had nowhere else to go.


        Ouch. He sounds pretty clueless. Not to mention irresponsible.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
        ... I don t know what a Columbus egg is, but the term realia would be understood by well-trained language teachers, but by few other people. We would say
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
          In a message dated 10/1/03 8:51:37 AM, jan.vanek.jr@... writes:

          > Which reminds me, I occasionally need to express the Czech concept
          > of "rea'lie" in English and so far I have always failed, or had to
          > circumscribe it long-windedly. Is "realia" indeed the Columbus egg
          > that would be comprehensible to a NS without rather associating
          > medieval scholasticism (dictionaries didn't seem to suggest so)? Or
          > what solution can mighty brains of the listmembers come up with?
          >
          I don't know what a Columbus egg is, but the term "realia" would be
          understood by well-trained language teachers, but by few other people. We would say
          something like "items from daily life" or "authentic objects (texts, etc.)".

          Jamie


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
          Or very often authentic materials . That term is used in education as well as on the street. Jamie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
            Or very often "authentic materials". That term is used in education as well
            as on the street.

            Jamie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • melvyn.geo
            ... I find that in practice I have only ever had to deal with the idea of realia in texts aimed at TEFL teachers. I wouldn t normally hesitate to use the
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
              >
              In a message dated 10/1/03 8:51:37 AM, jan.vanek.jr@s... writes:

              > Which reminds me, I occasionally need to express the Czech
              >concept of "rea'lie" in English and so far I have always failed, or >had to circumscribe it long-windedly.

              I find that in practice I have only ever had to deal with the idea of 'realia' in texts aimed at TEFL teachers. I wouldn't normally hesitate to use the word in such contexts because it is succinct and in my experience the target audience is very likely to be familiar with it. Elsewhere I might consider putting it in inverted commas if context gives the non-TEFL reader a sporting chance of deducing what the writer is on about, which is not that difficult after all.

              Old Poldauf suggests 'life and institutions'. Some combination of 'life', 'institutions', '(popular) culture', 'customs', 'conventions' or even 'civilization' (used by a teacher friend at International House) might be considered.

              Not so sure about 'pragmatics' as an equivalent. I thought that pragmatics was basically the study of meaning, not as generated by the linguistic system but as conveyed and manipulated by the participants in particular communicative situations, e.g. "It's getting very hot in here" = "Mind if I open a window?" or "Goodness! Is that the time?" = "I'm out of here!". Implicature and that. Or am I talking through my hat, Jamie?



              M.
            • Darian and Veronika
              Je pense qu il faut employer l expression les actualites. ... From: melvyn.geo To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:14 PM
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
                Je pense qu'il faut employer l'expression "les actualites."
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: melvyn.geo
                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 3:14 PM
                Subject: [Czechlist] TERM: realie, was Re: Czechlist


                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
                >
                In a message dated 10/1/03 8:51:37 AM, jan.vanek.jr@s... writes:

                > Which reminds me, I occasionally need to express the Czech
                >concept of "rea'lie" in English and so far I have always failed, or >had to circumscribe it long-windedly.

                I find that in practice I have only ever had to deal with the idea of 'realia' in texts aimed at TEFL teachers. I wouldn't normally hesitate to use the word in such contexts because it is succinct and in my experience the target audience is very likely to be familiar with it. Elsewhere I might consider putting it in inverted commas if context gives the non-TEFL reader a sporting chance of deducing what the writer is on about, which is not that difficult after all.

                Old Poldauf suggests 'life and institutions'. Some combination of 'life', 'institutions', '(popular) culture', 'customs', 'conventions' or even 'civilization' (used by a teacher friend at International House) might be considered.

                Not so sure about 'pragmatics' as an equivalent. I thought that pragmatics was basically the study of meaning, not as generated by the linguistic system but as conveyed and manipulated by the participants in particular communicative situations, e.g. "It's getting very hot in here" = "Mind if I open a window?" or "Goodness! Is that the time?" = "I'm out of here!". Implicature and that. Or am I talking through my hat, Jamie?



                M.




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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                ... I think you re talking about discourse analysis, rather than pragmatics. I think pragmatics mainly deals with information about culture or the real world
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 1, 2003
                  In a message dated 10/1/03 10:02:09 PM, bezdomovci@... writes:

                  >   Not so sure about 'pragmatics' as an equivalent. I thought that
                  > pragmatics was basically the study of meaning, not as generated by the linguistic
                  > system but as conveyed and manipulated by the participants in particular
                  > communicative situations, e.g. "It's getting very hot in here" = "Mind if I open a
                  > window?" or "Goodness! Is that the time?" = "I'm out of here!". Implicature and
                  > that. Or am I talking through my hat, Jamie?
                  >
                  I think you're talking about discourse analysis, rather than pragmatics. I
                  think pragmatics mainly deals with information about culture or the real world
                  that is necessary to interpret a text. Pragmatics would deal with why many
                  of my ESL students can't make sense out of a text like this:

                  It was the day of the big party. Jennifer wondered if Tom would
                  like a kite.
                  She went to her room and shook her piggy bank. There was no
                  sound.

                  Students recently arrived from Vietnam or China get almost nothing out of
                  this, even if they understand every word. Some students from the Middle East
                  think that Tom and Jennifer are adults, that the party is a wedding, and that
                  there is no sound because the wedding guests have not arrived yet. One guy
                  from Macedonia thought that there was no sound because the wind wasn't blowing,
                  and so they could not fly the kite. The students knew all the words in the
                  text, but they lacked certain practical and cultural information necessary to
                  interpret them. That kind of cultural and factual subtext is what is studied
                  in the field of pragmatics.

                  Since I wrote my last e-mail, it's hit me that "reálie" in Czech does not
                  exactly mean the same thing as "realia" in English. The way I usually hear the
                  term used in English, it means "authentic" texts or materials brought into the
                  classroom from the real world. So, the ESL teacher who empties his backpack
                  in front of the class and discusses the contents with the class is using
                  "realia". Likewise, the teacher who brings instruction manuals or cookbooks into
                  a class, or uses real radio advertisements as listening exercises is
                  employing "realia", but this is not "reálie", as far as I know.

                  When I talk about the reálie I had to know for my statnice, I usually call it
                  in English "cultural information", since it was a mash of history, specific
                  locations of the monuments to different Czech artists I had never heard of,
                  identifying kroje by region even though most Czechs can't do it, etc.

                  Basically, "reálie" is cultural subject matter to be learned, and "realia"
                  are teaching tools dragged in from real life.

                  Jamie


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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