Re: Zen and the art of translation
>>Pri srovnani anglictiny a cestiny se zda, ze anglictina ma chudsi inventarJamie wrote:
>>inherentne expresivnich prostredku nez cestina, coz vsak neznamena, ze
>>by byl nutne mene ucinny. Expresivita v anglictine je ve vetsim mnozstvi
>>pripadu koncentrovana do lexikalnich vyrazu, ktere jsou nositeli vyhradne
>>expresivnich konotacnich slozek a maji radiacni schopnost, kdezto v ceskem
>>textu je expresivita rozprostrena rovnomerneji na vetsi pocet nositelu
>>slozek denotacnich i konotacnich.
>As I mentioned to you off list (but will mention here for the rest of the people), I'm a little annoyed by her use of the word "chudsi", and it always strikes me that Czechs who claim English to be "chuda" in one respect oranother tend not to realize how "chudy" their own command of English is.
Knittlova also quotes Poldauf: "O anglictine se [â¦] tradicne tvrdÃ,
ze je oproti cestine mnohem mene expresivni, vyuzÃva celkem malo
As Knittlova says "coz vsak neznamena, ze [inventar inherentne expresivnich
prostredku] by byl nutne mene ucinny", I can't really take particular exception to her use of 'chudsi', which in this context seems to me to have little more than the force of 'less numerous', just as I might claim that German actually has a 'chudsi' == smaller array of diminutives in its lexicon than English but a more productive one in practice.
BTW it seems to me that 'bohaty' and 'chudy' have a broader range than their English counterparts and I sometimes find myself chewing my pen (or even keyboard) over expressions like 'bohaty zivot' (eventful life?) or 'zivot chudy na udalosti' (uneventful life?).
You say that Czech is relatively lacking in quite a few departments but then elsewhere in correspondence you say that every language is adequate to the needs of its society. I guess sometimes it just takes time. Another consideration is that having words in a dictionary is one thing, but what the majority of people actually know and use is quite another, viz the way the English refer to just about any fungus that is not field agaric as 'toadstools'.
>Czech can use syntax more for expressive effect than English canThis is what I understood but I am casting around for ideas about other 'inherently expressive' devices (syntactical and lexical) in Czech 'kde je expresivita rozprostrena rovnomerneji na vetsi pocet nositelu slozek
denotacnich i konotacnich'.
For example, Eisner says that 'a' can have expressive force in sentences like 'A je to!', 'A to se na to podivame!', 'A to ja tak nenecham!' 'A je to zlodejna zlodejska!' (of which he says: Neco nas nutka, abychom kazdou z techto vet opatrili vykricnikem. Citime totiz, ze to jsou vety prudkeho hnuti dusevniho, vety emfaticke, patheticke. To by nasvedcovalo citoslovecne povaze slovce 'a' v takovych vetach.)
'I' can evidently have similar force ('I ty lharko jedna prolhana'). Note also the use of 'to' above. Then there are constructions with 'ze...' such as 'ze jsi to udelal ty!', which seems to have the force of 'to think that _you_ did it' or how about 'Ze ti narezu prdel' (some kind of warning, I think)? Or as Dominik Lukes has pointed out, there are little words like 'pak' and 'totiz', which can act as 'attitude indicators' (I must admit that I have difficulty grasping how they work as such). Or how about 'snad' in such sentences as 'to snad neni pravda!' 'snad si nemyslis, ze jsem to udelal ja?', 'a mam se snad posrat?' 'a mam snad blejt krev?', 'snad jsi svepravnej' atp?
Any other ideas about inherently expressive devices in Czech, anybody?
- --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, Mgr. Lenka Mandryszovï¿½ <iona@v...> wrote:
> Helga isVery true. I shall send examples as I find them in weeks and months to come.
> right about changing the meaning when leaving out an important word, but we
> cannot generalize it and only examples can be, IMHO, discussed here.
> There is a very good article about the problem (in legalese) in the latestPaul sent me the article recently. I shall try to put it up on the Czechlist homepage in the near future.
> issue of ToP (Paul Sinclair - Neznalost zakona neomlouva) which aims at
> de-mystifying legalese (common attitude to legal "speech").