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RE: [Czechlist] A few verses> Thanks

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  • Martin Mikolajek
    Hi Melvyn Thank you for your prompt answer. This particular translation was for my private use not for commercial purposes. It is a quotation that appears in a
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 2, 2000
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      Hi Melvyn

      Thank you for your prompt answer. This particular translation was for my
      private use not for commercial purposes. It is a quotation that appears in a
      chapter of Salman Rushdie's last novel (Ground Beneath Her Feet), which I
      would like to submit to Jiri Levy's competition for young translators. I can
      send you the whole thing, if you are interested; I will appreciate any
      comments. Anyway, I knew that there is a translation by H&A Skoumalovy, but
      I wanted to try translating these four lines as well in case I can do
      better. As expected, I can't :(.

      I discussed this problem with Miroslav Jindra and he told me that when using
      excerpts from "canonical" texts it is usually better to use a well-known
      translation. Not because it is (might be) better, but rather in order to
      facilitate the Czech reader an opportunity to identify the text.

      I have read Umeni Prekladu, and despite the fact it is on a must-read list
      at the English department :), I find it very interesting, a true classic
      indeed.

      Here are some other expressions and sentences I had to face, try it for
      yourself, it's fun: half-clad women with their hourglass figures and perfect
      globes of breasts; back-door man; It was a mega-hustle which freed his
      people from the daily hustles that drove them into early graves; Here was a
      wordless truth, one that came before language, a being not a becoming; To
      see what was thus, and show it so. To strip away the veils and turn the
      thunderous racket of revelation into the pure silence of the image and so
      possess it; I snap my fingers under their collective nose; grand
      inter-species reunion; multi-limbed Cosmic Dancer or white-bearded
      Ineffable, some virgin-raping metamorphic Thunderbolt Hurler or
      world-destroying flood and fire Maniac; decisive voiding; tell-tale stencils
      were visible everywhere; magnificentourage etc, there are many more.


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Melvyn Clarke [mailto:zehrovak@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2000 1:02 PM
      To: Czechlist@egroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Czechlist] A few verses

      This is the 'Night Song of the Jungle' from Kipling's Jungle Book


      Anyway, I'm glad I've not got your problems, mate. Do you often have to deal
      with this kind of
      poser? Do you think it is that important to keep to the metre of the
      original in a case like this? If there is a well-known translation of a work
      that is quoted, how tempted are you to use that version? Are there copyright
      problems?

      Have you ever read Jiri Levy's 'Umeni prekladu'?
    • Zuzana Slanska
      Hello everybody, this is the first time I contribute to this discussion group. Let me introduce myself a bit. I am a free lance translator and interpreter of
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 2, 2000
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        Hello everybody,

        this is the first time I contribute to this discussion group. Let me
        introduce myself a bit. I am a free lance translator and interpreter of
        Italian and English for about 9 years. I am a member of the Union of
        Interpreters and Translators (JTP). I am afraid I am not from Prague but 100
        km far from Prague that is why it would be difficult to come to a meeting of
        the Svepomoc group even if I became a member of it.
        I decided to contribute to the discussion after reading titles of books or
        other names translated from English with all first capitals for several
        times. I do not think that is a correct Czech. That is an English Czech.

        > I have read Umeni Prekladu,

        Shouldn't it be Umeni prekladu instead of Umeni Prekladu? Does it seem Czech
        to you?

        Bye,

        Zuzana
      • Melvyn Clarke
        Hello Martin, ... I wanted to try translating these four lines as well in case I can do better. As expected, I can t :(. Those Czechs I have spoken to on the
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 3, 2000
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          Hello Martin,



          >Anyway, I knew that there is a translation by H&A Skoumalovy, but
          I wanted to try translating these four lines as well in case I can do
          better. As expected, I can't :(.


          Those Czechs I have spoken to on the subject tell me that yours is
          semantically closest and aesthetically most pleasing...



          Melvyn
          a back-door man - muz postrannich vchodu
          I'm working on the others.....:) they _are_ fun



          >Half-clad women with their hourglass figures and perfect
          globes of breasts; back-door man; It was a mega-hustle which freed his
          people from the daily hustles that drove them into early graves; Here was a
          wordless truth, one that came before language, a being not a becoming; To
          see what was thus, and show it so. To strip away the veils and turn the
          thunderous racket of revelation into the pure silence of the image and so
          possess it; I snap my fingers under their collective nose; grand
          inter-species reunion; multi-limbed Cosmic Dancer or white-bearded
          Ineffable, some virgin-raping metamorphic Thunderbolt Hurler or
          world-destroying flood and fire Maniac; decisive voiding; tell-tale stencils
          were visible everywhere; magnificentourage etc,


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        • Martin Mikolajek
          Sorry, it is indeed Umeni prekladu. Just a misprtin (misprint :)) ... From: Zuzana Slanska [mailto:angita@iol.cz] Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 3:06 AM To:
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 4, 2000
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            Sorry, it is indeed "Umeni prekladu." Just a misprtin (misprint :))

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Zuzana Slanska [mailto:angita@...]
            Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 3:06 AM
            To: Czechlist@egroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Czechlist] A few verses> Thanks

            > I have read Umeni Prekladu,

            Shouldn't it be Umeni prekladu instead of Umeni Prekladu? Does it seem Czech
            to you?

            Bye,

            Zuzana
          • Martin Mikolajek
            What about dverník zadních vrátek? ... From: Melvyn Clarke [mailto:zehrovak@dr.com] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 3:08 AM To: Czechlist@egroups.com
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 4, 2000
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              What about "dverník zadních vrátek?"

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Melvyn Clarke [mailto:zehrovak@...]
              Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 3:08 AM
              To: Czechlist@egroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Czechlist] A few verses> Thanks

              a back-door man - muz postrannich vchodu
              I'm working on the others.....:) they _are_ fun
            • Melvyn Clarke
              Hi Melvyn ... private use not for commercial purposes. It is a quotation that appears in a chapter of Salman Rushdie s last novel (Ground Beneath Her Feet),
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 5, 2000
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                Hi Melvyn

                > This particular translation was for my
                private use not for commercial purposes. It is a quotation that appears in a
                chapter of Salman Rushdie's last novel (Ground Beneath Her Feet), which I
                would like to submit to Jiri Levy's competition for young translators. I can
                send you the whole thing, if you are interested; I will appreciate any
                comments.

                Hi Martin,

                Yes I am interested and so is my Hana.

                >I discussed this problem with Miroslav Jindra

                Who is he?

                > and he told me that when using
                excerpts from "canonical" texts it is usually better to use a well-known
                translation. Not because it is (might be) better, but rather in order to
                facilitate the Czech reader an opportunity to identify the text.

                Sounds reasonable but it must be difficult to choose when you have so many
                classics with two or more excellent translations. Shakespeare must be
                awkward. Which is the most famous version of 'to be or not to be, that is
                the question'? 'Byt ci nebyt, tot' oc tu bezi'?

                > half-clad women with their hourglass figures and perfect
                globes of breasts;

                Polonahe zeny s postavami jako presypaci hodiny a....a.... kozy jako vozy.
                Aw, I'm no good at this kind of stuff.


                >>muz postrannich vchodu
                >>dvernik zadnich vrat

                > back-door man; in my innocence I had an image in my mind of a furtive kind
                of chap who visits his lady friends while their husbands are out at work (if
                you don't want to be seen by the neighbours the back door is often your best
                bet) so I played with 'postranni' as in 'umysly'. However, a quick glance at
                the search engines reveals that this phrase is often used as a potentially
                offensive term for a male homosexual! Oops. Can you remember the context?

                M.


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              • Zuzana Slanska
                No problem if it was just a misprint. The real problem is that I can read the same mistake in so many places including this group and also TV, and that is the
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 6, 2000
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                  No problem if it was just a misprint. The real problem is that I can read
                  the same mistake in so many places including this group and also TV, and
                  that is the reason I tried to draw your attention to it.

                  Bye.

                  Zuzana

                  > Sorry, it is indeed "Umeni prekladu." Just a misprtin (misprint :))
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