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Re: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT: letter to Bush

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  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
    ... I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
      In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


      > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do
      > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs
      > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is what
      > the translator did.
      >
      I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions
      word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
      It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which is a
      purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence follows a
      Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence should have
      been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.

      Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country which has
      more than long-gone historical experience with war and the suffering which
      goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not English, and
      it's even a little hard to interpret.

      When the English is strange sounding or not completely comprehensible, then
      the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the translation has
      not been done exactly to the original.

      However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may have been
      the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.

      Jamie


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • kzgafas
      ... do ... needs ... what ... collocutions ... right. ... is a ... follows a ... should have ... which has ... suffering which ... English, and ...
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
        >
        > In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@t... writes:
        >
        >
        > > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you
        do
        > > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint
        needs
        > > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is
        what
        > > the translator did.
        > >
        > I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech
        collocutions
        > word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses
        right.
        > It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which
        is a
        > purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence
        follows a
        > Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence
        should have
        > been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.
        >
        > Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country
        which has
        > more than long-gone historical experience with war and the
        suffering which
        > goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not
        English, and
        > it's even a little hard to interpret.
        >
        > When the English is strange sounding or not completely
        comprehensible, then
        > the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the
        translation has
        > not been done exactly to the original.
        >
        > However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may
        have been
        > the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.
        >
        > Jamie

        May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:

        "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
        our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
        action if weapons of mass destruction are used."

        Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
        not too busy with something else right now.)

        Kostas
      • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
        ... I might say, The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
          In a message dated 4/1/03 1:45:46 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


          > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
          >
          > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
          > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
          > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
          >
          > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
          > not too busy with something else right now.)
          >

          I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring
          Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
          humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

          All I would have done was to take out "the" before "Operation Enduring
          Freedom", because it is a name, and putting "the" before it is slightly (not
          very) reminiscent of a famous Czech we all know calling her husband "the
          Donald". I changed "takes" to "is taking", because this participation is
          something that is taking place now, and it's not a habit or a tradition of
          any kind.

          When I thought about my comments from earlier today, I decided I should also
          remind y'all that Czenglish is not written exclusively by Czechs. The first
          Czech-to-English translations I did, lo those several years ago, seemed okay
          to me while I was living in a Czech environment in Marianske Lazne --
          apparently with some of my skills in my native language eroding -- but now
          they are extremely painful for me to read, because there is so much Czenglish
          in them.

          Jamie


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • kzgafas
          ... and ... Enduring ... Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning exactly, or not. I must admit you did. Kostas
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
            kzgafas@t... writes:
            >
            >
            > > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
            > >
            > > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom,
            and
            > > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
            > > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
            > >
            > > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
            > > not too busy with something else right now.)
            > >
            >
            > I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation
            Enduring
            > Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
            > humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

            Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning
            exactly, or not. I must admit you did.

            Kostas
          • cz519441@tiscali.cz
            Dobry den, napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav? Dekuji Vam za navrhy. S pozdravem Lenka S.
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
              Dobry den,
              napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
              Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
              S pozdravem
              Lenka S.



              ______________________________________________________
              Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
            • Dohnalová Kateřina
              zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne...... ... From: cz519441@tiscali.cz
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
                zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne......

                -----Original Message-----
                From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                Dobry den,
                napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                S pozdravem
                Lenka S.



                ______________________________________________________
                Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

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              • Miluse Saskova-Pierce
                here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols! Also Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you Mila
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
                  here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols!

                  Also

                  Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you
                  Mila


                  Lincoln ? Pilsen (Czech Republic) Sister City Ties Established
                  The Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences group founded on the Lincoln
                  UN campus took initiative together with the Mayor of Lincoln Don Wessely
                  and established sister city ties between Lincoln and Pilsen. In 1945
                  Pilsen is an old town in the west of the Czech Republic that was liberated
                  from the Germans by American troupes under the command of general Patton.
                  Several Lincoln citizens, including Verne Lewellen who was a part of the
                  liberation force, will be present in Pilsen during the commemorative
                  ceremonies on May 8, 2003.

                  The Nebraska chapter of the Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences is
                  involved in other projects. Among others, the group is organizing a North
                  American Conference in Cedar Rapids (the site of the National Czech &
                  Slovak Museum) that will take place June 26-28. The two co-chairs of the
                  conference are Mila Saskova-Pierce from the Department of Modern Languages
                  and Cathy Oslzly, Department of Psychology. For information see
                  www.unl.edu/SVUNebraska. The group is also preparing for publication the
                  writings about Czech Nebraska by the late Dr. Vladimir Kucera, a former UNL
                  instructor of the Czech language, and one of the organizers of Czech
                  festivals in Nebraska.

                  Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
                  Minor Languages Section Head
                  Department of Modern Languages
                  University of Nebraska at Lincoln
                  NE 68588-0315

                  e-mail: msaskova-pierce1@...

                  Tel: (402) 472 1336
                  Fax: (402) 472 0327




                  Dohnalová Kateřina
                  <Katerina.Dohnalova To: "'Czechlist@yahoogroups.com'"
                  @...> <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  cc:
                  2003.04.02 09:42 Subject: RE: [Czechlist] ZDAR!
                  Please respond to
                  Czechlist






                  zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                  Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci
                  ne......

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                  Dobry den,
                  napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                  Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                  S pozdravem
                  Lenka S.



                  ______________________________________________________
                  Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                  Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                  Czechlist resources:
                  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                  Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                  Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                  Czechlist resources:
                  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                  Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                  Good evening, Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
                    Good evening,
                    Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                    wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                    name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                    to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!

                    For NS - is anyone interested in proofreading the translation (about 3 pages)
                    by Friday morning? If so, please contact me off-list (sukova@...).
                    Thank you.
                    Lenka S.



                    ______________________________________________________
                    Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                  • melvyn.geo
                    ... My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests: Success to you! Good luck! Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes.
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
                      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                      > Good evening,
                      > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                      > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                      > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                      > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!


                      My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                      Success to you! Good luck!

                      Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is very theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed', which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.

                      Do well! Win through!

                      M.
                    • melvyn.geo
                      ... I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at zdar as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@d...> wrote:
                        > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                        > > Good evening,
                        > > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                        > > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                        > > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                        > > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!
                        >

                        I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar' as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)

                        M.
                      • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                        ... Indeed it does. Thank you, Melvyn. Lenka S. ______________________________________________________ Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ...
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
                          >I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar'
                          >as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the
                          >role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate
                          >translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)
                          >
                          Indeed it does.
                          Thank you, Melvyn.
                          Lenka S.



                          ______________________________________________________
                          Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                        • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                          Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client. Have a good day.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
                            Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after
                            I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client.
                            Have a good day.
                            Lenka S.


                            >
                            >My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                            >Success to you! Good luck!
                            >
                            >Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is
                            very
                            >theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed',
                            >which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.
                            >
                            >Do well! Win through!
                            >
                            >M.
                            >
                            >



                            ______________________________________________________
                            Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
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