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Re: CHAT: letter to Bush

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  • kzgafas
    ... not a good ... Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs to
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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      --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
      > It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is
      not a good
      > writer and not experienced at translating.
      >
      > Jamie

      Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do
      it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs
      to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is what
      the translator did.

      Kostas
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      ... I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


        > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do
        > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs
        > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is what
        > the translator did.
        >
        I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions
        word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
        It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which is a
        purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence follows a
        Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence should have
        been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.

        Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country which has
        more than long-gone historical experience with war and the suffering which
        goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not English, and
        it's even a little hard to interpret.

        When the English is strange sounding or not completely comprehensible, then
        the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the translation has
        not been done exactly to the original.

        However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may have been
        the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.

        Jamie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • kzgafas
        ... do ... needs ... what ... collocutions ... right. ... is a ... follows a ... should have ... which has ... suffering which ... English, and ...
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@t... writes:
          >
          >
          > > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you
          do
          > > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint
          needs
          > > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is
          what
          > > the translator did.
          > >
          > I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech
          collocutions
          > word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses
          right.
          > It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which
          is a
          > purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence
          follows a
          > Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence
          should have
          > been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.
          >
          > Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country
          which has
          > more than long-gone historical experience with war and the
          suffering which
          > goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not
          English, and
          > it's even a little hard to interpret.
          >
          > When the English is strange sounding or not completely
          comprehensible, then
          > the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the
          translation has
          > not been done exactly to the original.
          >
          > However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may
          have been
          > the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.
          >
          > Jamie

          May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:

          "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
          our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
          action if weapons of mass destruction are used."

          Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
          not too busy with something else right now.)

          Kostas
        • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
          ... I might say, The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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            In a message dated 4/1/03 1:45:46 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


            > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
            >
            > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
            > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
            > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
            >
            > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
            > not too busy with something else right now.)
            >

            I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring
            Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
            humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

            All I would have done was to take out "the" before "Operation Enduring
            Freedom", because it is a name, and putting "the" before it is slightly (not
            very) reminiscent of a famous Czech we all know calling her husband "the
            Donald". I changed "takes" to "is taking", because this participation is
            something that is taking place now, and it's not a habit or a tradition of
            any kind.

            When I thought about my comments from earlier today, I decided I should also
            remind y'all that Czenglish is not written exclusively by Czechs. The first
            Czech-to-English translations I did, lo those several years ago, seemed okay
            to me while I was living in a Czech environment in Marianske Lazne --
            apparently with some of my skills in my native language eroding -- but now
            they are extremely painful for me to read, because there is so much Czenglish
            in them.

            Jamie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kzgafas
            ... and ... Enduring ... Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning exactly, or not. I must admit you did. Kostas
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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              kzgafas@t... writes:
              >
              >
              > > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
              > >
              > > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom,
              and
              > > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
              > > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
              > >
              > > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
              > > not too busy with something else right now.)
              > >
              >
              > I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation
              Enduring
              > Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
              > humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

              Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning
              exactly, or not. I must admit you did.

              Kostas
            • cz519441@tiscali.cz
              Dobry den, napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav? Dekuji Vam za navrhy. S pozdravem Lenka S.
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                Dobry den,
                napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                S pozdravem
                Lenka S.



                ______________________________________________________
                Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
              • Dohnalová Kateřina
                zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne...... ... From: cz519441@tiscali.cz
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                  zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                  Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne......

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                  To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                  Dobry den,
                  napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                  Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                  S pozdravem
                  Lenka S.



                  ______________________________________________________
                  Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                  Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                  Czechlist resources:
                  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                  Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

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                • Miluse Saskova-Pierce
                  here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols! Also Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you Mila
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                    here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols!

                    Also

                    Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you
                    Mila


                    Lincoln ? Pilsen (Czech Republic) Sister City Ties Established
                    The Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences group founded on the Lincoln
                    UN campus took initiative together with the Mayor of Lincoln Don Wessely
                    and established sister city ties between Lincoln and Pilsen. In 1945
                    Pilsen is an old town in the west of the Czech Republic that was liberated
                    from the Germans by American troupes under the command of general Patton.
                    Several Lincoln citizens, including Verne Lewellen who was a part of the
                    liberation force, will be present in Pilsen during the commemorative
                    ceremonies on May 8, 2003.

                    The Nebraska chapter of the Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences is
                    involved in other projects. Among others, the group is organizing a North
                    American Conference in Cedar Rapids (the site of the National Czech &
                    Slovak Museum) that will take place June 26-28. The two co-chairs of the
                    conference are Mila Saskova-Pierce from the Department of Modern Languages
                    and Cathy Oslzly, Department of Psychology. For information see
                    www.unl.edu/SVUNebraska. The group is also preparing for publication the
                    writings about Czech Nebraska by the late Dr. Vladimir Kucera, a former UNL
                    instructor of the Czech language, and one of the organizers of Czech
                    festivals in Nebraska.

                    Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
                    Minor Languages Section Head
                    Department of Modern Languages
                    University of Nebraska at Lincoln
                    NE 68588-0315

                    e-mail: msaskova-pierce1@...

                    Tel: (402) 472 1336
                    Fax: (402) 472 0327




                    Dohnalová Kateřina
                    <Katerina.Dohnalova To: "'Czechlist@yahoogroups.com'"
                    @...> <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                    cc:
                    2003.04.02 09:42 Subject: RE: [Czechlist] ZDAR!
                    Please respond to
                    Czechlist






                    zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                    Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci
                    ne......

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                    To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                    Dobry den,
                    napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                    Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                    S pozdravem
                    Lenka S.



                    ______________________________________________________
                    Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                    Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                    Czechlist resources:
                    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                    Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                    Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                    Czechlist resources:
                    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                    Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                    Good evening, Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                      Good evening,
                      Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                      wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                      name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                      to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!

                      For NS - is anyone interested in proofreading the translation (about 3 pages)
                      by Friday morning? If so, please contact me off-list (sukova@...).
                      Thank you.
                      Lenka S.



                      ______________________________________________________
                      Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                    • melvyn.geo
                      ... My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests: Success to you! Good luck! Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes.
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                        > Good evening,
                        > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                        > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                        > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                        > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!


                        My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                        Success to you! Good luck!

                        Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is very theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed', which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.

                        Do well! Win through!

                        M.
                      • melvyn.geo
                        ... I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at zdar as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@d...> wrote:
                          > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                          > > Good evening,
                          > > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                          > > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                          > > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                          > > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!
                          >

                          I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar' as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)

                          M.
                        • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                          ... Indeed it does. Thank you, Melvyn. Lenka S. ______________________________________________________ Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ...
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                            >I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar'
                            >as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the
                            >role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate
                            >translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)
                            >
                            Indeed it does.
                            Thank you, Melvyn.
                            Lenka S.



                            ______________________________________________________
                            Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                          • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                            Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client. Have a good day.
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                              Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after
                              I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client.
                              Have a good day.
                              Lenka S.


                              >
                              >My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                              >Success to you! Good luck!
                              >
                              >Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is
                              very
                              >theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed',
                              >which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.
                              >
                              >Do well! Win through!
                              >
                              >M.
                              >
                              >



                              ______________________________________________________
                              Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
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