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Re: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT: letter to Bush

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  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
    ... It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is not a good writer and not experienced at translating. Jamie [Non-text portions of this
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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      In a message dated 4/1/03 9:56:34 AM, kzgafas@... writes:


      > > As for who translated it, I don't know - We were supposed to do the
      > > inauguration speech with Melvyn, then it got cancelled and Klaus's
      > office
      > > "did it internally"....
      > >
      > > The two translations have very similar style and that's all I'm
      > going to say
      > > about it....:)
      >
      It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is not a good
      writer and not experienced at translating.

      Jamie


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Matej Klimes
      I was referring to the inauguration speech and the other piece that s next to it - especially the inauguration speech is heavy Czenglish (sentence structure
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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        I was referring to the inauguration speech and the other piece that's next
        to it - especially the inauguration speech is heavy Czenglish (sentence
        structure and word order and missing verbs every now and then) and, as Melv.
        pointed out, Klaus thinks it great he was voted in "accross the political
        SPECTRE"...:) (at least in the English version)

        M




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <JPKIRCHNER@...>
        To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:56 PM
        Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT: letter to Bush


        >
        > In a message dated 4/1/03 9:56:34 AM, kzgafas@... writes:
        >
        >
        > > > As for who translated it, I don't know - We were supposed to do the
        > > > inauguration speech with Melvyn, then it got cancelled and Klaus's
        > > office
        > > > "did it internally"....
        > > >
        > > > The two translations have very similar style and that's all I'm
        > > going to say
        > > > about it....:)
        > >
        > It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is not a
        good
        > writer and not experienced at translating.
        >
        > Jamie
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
        >
        > Czechlist resources:
        > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
        >
        > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • kzgafas
        ... not a good ... Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs to
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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          --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
          > It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is
          not a good
          > writer and not experienced at translating.
          >
          > Jamie

          Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do
          it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs
          to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is what
          the translator did.

          Kostas
        • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
          ... I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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            In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


            > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do
            > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs
            > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is what
            > the translator did.
            >
            I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions
            word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
            It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which is a
            purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence follows a
            Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence should have
            been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.

            Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country which has
            more than long-gone historical experience with war and the suffering which
            goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not English, and
            it's even a little hard to interpret.

            When the English is strange sounding or not completely comprehensible, then
            the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the translation has
            not been done exactly to the original.

            However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may have been
            the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.

            Jamie


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • kzgafas
            ... do ... needs ... what ... collocutions ... right. ... is a ... follows a ... should have ... which has ... suffering which ... English, and ...
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
              >
              > In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@t... writes:
              >
              >
              > > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you
              do
              > > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint
              needs
              > > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is
              what
              > > the translator did.
              > >
              > I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech
              collocutions
              > word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses
              right.
              > It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which
              is a
              > purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence
              follows a
              > Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence
              should have
              > been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.
              >
              > Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country
              which has
              > more than long-gone historical experience with war and the
              suffering which
              > goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not
              English, and
              > it's even a little hard to interpret.
              >
              > When the English is strange sounding or not completely
              comprehensible, then
              > the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the
              translation has
              > not been done exactly to the original.
              >
              > However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may
              have been
              > the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.
              >
              > Jamie

              May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:

              "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
              our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
              action if weapons of mass destruction are used."

              Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
              not too busy with something else right now.)

              Kostas
            • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
              ... I might say, The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 1, 2003
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                In a message dated 4/1/03 1:45:46 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


                > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
                >
                > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
                > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
                > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
                >
                > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
                > not too busy with something else right now.)
                >

                I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring
                Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
                humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

                All I would have done was to take out "the" before "Operation Enduring
                Freedom", because it is a name, and putting "the" before it is slightly (not
                very) reminiscent of a famous Czech we all know calling her husband "the
                Donald". I changed "takes" to "is taking", because this participation is
                something that is taking place now, and it's not a habit or a tradition of
                any kind.

                When I thought about my comments from earlier today, I decided I should also
                remind y'all that Czenglish is not written exclusively by Czechs. The first
                Czech-to-English translations I did, lo those several years ago, seemed okay
                to me while I was living in a Czech environment in Marianske Lazne --
                apparently with some of my skills in my native language eroding -- but now
                they are extremely painful for me to read, because there is so much Czenglish
                in them.

                Jamie


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • kzgafas
                ... and ... Enduring ... Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning exactly, or not. I must admit you did. Kostas
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                  kzgafas@t... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
                  > >
                  > > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom,
                  and
                  > > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
                  > > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
                  > >
                  > > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
                  > > not too busy with something else right now.)
                  > >
                  >
                  > I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation
                  Enduring
                  > Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
                  > humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

                  Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning
                  exactly, or not. I must admit you did.

                  Kostas
                • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                  Dobry den, napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav? Dekuji Vam za navrhy. S pozdravem Lenka S.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                    Dobry den,
                    napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                    Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                    S pozdravem
                    Lenka S.



                    ______________________________________________________
                    Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                  • Dohnalová Kateřina
                    zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne...... ... From: cz519441@tiscali.cz
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                      zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                      Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne......

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                      Dobry den,
                      napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                      Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                      S pozdravem
                      Lenka S.



                      ______________________________________________________
                      Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                      Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                      Czechlist resources:
                      http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                      Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

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                    • Miluse Saskova-Pierce
                      here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols! Also Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you Mila
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                        here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols!

                        Also

                        Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you
                        Mila


                        Lincoln ? Pilsen (Czech Republic) Sister City Ties Established
                        The Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences group founded on the Lincoln
                        UN campus took initiative together with the Mayor of Lincoln Don Wessely
                        and established sister city ties between Lincoln and Pilsen. In 1945
                        Pilsen is an old town in the west of the Czech Republic that was liberated
                        from the Germans by American troupes under the command of general Patton.
                        Several Lincoln citizens, including Verne Lewellen who was a part of the
                        liberation force, will be present in Pilsen during the commemorative
                        ceremonies on May 8, 2003.

                        The Nebraska chapter of the Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences is
                        involved in other projects. Among others, the group is organizing a North
                        American Conference in Cedar Rapids (the site of the National Czech &
                        Slovak Museum) that will take place June 26-28. The two co-chairs of the
                        conference are Mila Saskova-Pierce from the Department of Modern Languages
                        and Cathy Oslzly, Department of Psychology. For information see
                        www.unl.edu/SVUNebraska. The group is also preparing for publication the
                        writings about Czech Nebraska by the late Dr. Vladimir Kucera, a former UNL
                        instructor of the Czech language, and one of the organizers of Czech
                        festivals in Nebraska.

                        Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
                        Minor Languages Section Head
                        Department of Modern Languages
                        University of Nebraska at Lincoln
                        NE 68588-0315

                        e-mail: msaskova-pierce1@...

                        Tel: (402) 472 1336
                        Fax: (402) 472 0327




                        Dohnalová Kateřina
                        <Katerina.Dohnalova To: "'Czechlist@yahoogroups.com'"
                        @...> <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                        cc:
                        2003.04.02 09:42 Subject: RE: [Czechlist] ZDAR!
                        Please respond to
                        Czechlist






                        zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                        Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci
                        ne......

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                        Dobry den,
                        napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                        Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                        S pozdravem
                        Lenka S.



                        ______________________________________________________
                        Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                        Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                        Czechlist resources:
                        http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                        Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                        Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                        Czechlist resources:
                        http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                        Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                        Good evening, Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                          Good evening,
                          Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                          wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                          name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                          to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!

                          For NS - is anyone interested in proofreading the translation (about 3 pages)
                          by Friday morning? If so, please contact me off-list (sukova@...).
                          Thank you.
                          Lenka S.



                          ______________________________________________________
                          Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                        • melvyn.geo
                          ... My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests: Success to you! Good luck! Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes.
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                            --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                            > Good evening,
                            > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                            > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                            > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                            > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!


                            My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                            Success to you! Good luck!

                            Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is very theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed', which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.

                            Do well! Win through!

                            M.
                          • melvyn.geo
                            ... I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at zdar as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@d...> wrote:
                              > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                              > > Good evening,
                              > > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                              > > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                              > > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                              > > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!
                              >

                              I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar' as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)

                              M.
                            • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                              ... Indeed it does. Thank you, Melvyn. Lenka S. ______________________________________________________ Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ...
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                                >I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar'
                                >as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the
                                >role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate
                                >translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)
                                >
                                Indeed it does.
                                Thank you, Melvyn.
                                Lenka S.



                                ______________________________________________________
                                Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                              • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                                Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client. Have a good day.
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 2, 2003
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                                  Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after
                                  I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client.
                                  Have a good day.
                                  Lenka S.


                                  >
                                  >My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                                  >Success to you! Good luck!
                                  >
                                  >Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is
                                  very
                                  >theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed',
                                  >which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.
                                  >
                                  >Do well! Win through!
                                  >
                                  >M.
                                  >
                                  >



                                  ______________________________________________________
                                  Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
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