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Re: [Czechlist] TERM: "rádný hospodár "

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  • Michael Trittipo
    ... I wouldn t try to find an equivalent two words. Typical phrases in English for the same idea are: [care] . . . of a man of ordinary prudence in managing
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 1 8:39 AM
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      >
      >
      >Clenové dozorcí rady jsou povinni vykonavat svou pusobnost s péci rádného
      >hospodare".
      >
      >
      I wouldn't try to find an equivalent two words. Typical phrases in
      English for the same idea are:

      "[care] . . . of a man of ordinary prudence in managing his own affairs."
      http://www.lexum.umontreal.ca/csc-scc/en/pub/1995/vol4/html/1995scr4_0344.html

      "the care which a reasonable and prudent man would use in the conduct of
      his own affairs."
      http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/34feb/flexner.htm

      "the degree of care, diligence and skill to be expected of a reasonable
      and prudent person in the management of his or her own affairs."
      http://bizfriendly.com/newsletter/nm_n_no_s2002.asp

      "Board members should conduct themselves with the level of care, skill,
      and diligence exercised by prudent persons in the handling of his or her
      own affairs."
      http://www.ag.state.oh.us/online_publications/charitable_law/board.htm

      "‘Care’ refers to the pains and perception that a reasonable man would
      apply in handling his own affairs."
      http://www.lemac.co.uk/resources/publication/directors_duties1.html
    • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
      ... It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is not a good writer and not experienced at translating. Jamie [Non-text portions of this
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 1 8:56 AM
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        In a message dated 4/1/03 9:56:34 AM, kzgafas@... writes:


        > > As for who translated it, I don't know - We were supposed to do the
        > > inauguration speech with Melvyn, then it got cancelled and Klaus's
        > office
        > > "did it internally"....
        > >
        > > The two translations have very similar style and that's all I'm
        > going to say
        > > about it....:)
        >
        It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is not a good
        writer and not experienced at translating.

        Jamie


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Matej Klimes
        I was referring to the inauguration speech and the other piece that s next to it - especially the inauguration speech is heavy Czenglish (sentence structure
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 1 9:10 AM
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          I was referring to the inauguration speech and the other piece that's next
          to it - especially the inauguration speech is heavy Czenglish (sentence
          structure and word order and missing verbs every now and then) and, as Melv.
          pointed out, Klaus thinks it great he was voted in "accross the political
          SPECTRE"...:) (at least in the English version)

          M




          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <JPKIRCHNER@...>
          To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:56 PM
          Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: CHAT: letter to Bush


          >
          > In a message dated 4/1/03 9:56:34 AM, kzgafas@... writes:
          >
          >
          > > > As for who translated it, I don't know - We were supposed to do the
          > > > inauguration speech with Melvyn, then it got cancelled and Klaus's
          > > office
          > > > "did it internally"....
          > > >
          > > > The two translations have very similar style and that's all I'm
          > > going to say
          > > > about it....:)
          > >
          > It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is not a
          good
          > writer and not experienced at translating.
          >
          > Jamie
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
          >
          > Czechlist resources:
          > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
          >
          > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
        • Vladimír Lopata
          Thanks a lot. Vladimir ... Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry. Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz). Verze: 6.0.465 / Virová báze:
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 1 9:13 AM
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            Thanks a lot.

            Vladimir

            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Michael Trittipo [mailto:tritt002@...]
            > Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 6:40 PM
            > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] TERM: "rádný hospodár"
            >
            >
            > >
            > >
            > >Clenové dozorcí rady jsou povinni vykonavat svou pusobnost s péci rádného
            > >hospodare".
            > >
            > >
            > I wouldn't try to find an equivalent two words. Typical phrases in
            > English for the same idea are:
            >
            > "[care] . . . of a man of ordinary prudence in managing his own affairs."
            > http://www.lexum.umontreal.ca/csc-scc/en/pub/1995/vol4/html/1995sc
            > r4_0344.html
            >
            > "the care which a reasonable and prudent man would use in the conduct of
            > his own affairs."
            > http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/34feb/flexner.htm
            >
            > "the degree of care, diligence and skill to be expected of a reasonable
            > and prudent person in the management of his or her own affairs."
            > http://bizfriendly.com/newsletter/nm_n_no_s2002.asp
            >
            > "Board members should conduct themselves with the level of care, skill,
            > and diligence exercised by prudent persons in the handling of his or her
            > own affairs."
            > http://www.ag.state.oh.us/online_publications/charitable_law/board.htm
            >
            > "‘Care’ refers to the pains and perception that a reasonable man would
            > apply in handling his own affairs."
            > http://www.lemac.co.uk/resources/publication/directors_duties1.html
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
            >
            > Czechlist resources:
            > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
            >
            > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            > ---
            > Pøíchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry.
            > Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz).
            > Verze: 6.0.465 / Virová báze: 263 - datum vydání: 25.3.2003
            >
            ---
            Odchozí zpráva neobsahuje viry.
            Zkontrolováno antivirovým systémem AVG (http://www.grisoft.cz).
            Verze: 6.0.465 / Virová báze: 263 - datum vydání: 25.3.2003
          • kzgafas
            ... not a good ... Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs to
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 1 9:24 AM
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              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
              > It just looks like it was done by a native English speaker who is
              not a good
              > writer and not experienced at translating.
              >
              > Jamie

              Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do
              it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs
              to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is what
              the translator did.

              Kostas
            • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
              ... I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 1 10:16 AM
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                In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


                > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you do
                > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint needs
                > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is what
                > the translator did.
                >
                I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech collocutions
                word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses right.
                It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which is a
                purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence follows a
                Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence should have
                been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.

                Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country which has
                more than long-gone historical experience with war and the suffering which
                goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not English, and
                it's even a little hard to interpret.

                When the English is strange sounding or not completely comprehensible, then
                the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the translation has
                not been done exactly to the original.

                However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may have been
                the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.

                Jamie


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • kzgafas
                ... do ... needs ... what ... collocutions ... right. ... is a ... follows a ... should have ... which has ... suffering which ... English, and ...
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 1 10:39 AM
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                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, JPKIRCHNER@a... wrote:
                  >
                  > In a message dated 4/1/03 12:25:15 PM, kzgafas@t... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > Yes, it is done by an NS by the first glance. But, how would you
                  do
                  > > it better? The passage referring to the actual Czech standpoint
                  needs
                  > > to done really exactly to the original (I would say), and it is
                  what
                  > > the translator did.
                  > >
                  > I would have done it better by not translating some of the Czech
                  collocutions
                  > word for word into English, and I would have gotten the verb tenses
                  right.
                  > It's got phrases like "I was asked what is...," for example, which
                  is a
                  > purely Czech verb sequence, not to mention that the whole sentence
                  follows a
                  > Czech and not standard English word order. The whole sentence
                  should have
                  > been reworded into natural English with the same meaning.
                  >
                  > Another strange turn of phrase is this: "We live in a country
                  which has
                  > more than long-gone historical experience with war and the
                  suffering which
                  > goes hand in hand with it." More than long-gone? That's not
                  English, and
                  > it's even a little hard to interpret.
                  >
                  > When the English is strange sounding or not completely
                  comprehensible, then
                  > the meaning is not the same as that in the original, and the
                  translation has
                  > not been done exactly to the original.
                  >
                  > However, we can't be so sure it's the translator's fault. It may
                  have been
                  > the dirty deed of whatever Czech took his text and "corrected" it.
                  >
                  > Jamie

                  May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:

                  "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
                  our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
                  action if weapons of mass destruction are used."

                  Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
                  not too busy with something else right now.)

                  Kostas
                • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                  ... I might say, The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 1 8:15 PM
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                    In a message dated 4/1/03 1:45:46 PM, kzgafas@... writes:


                    > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
                    >
                    > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom, and
                    > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
                    > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
                    >
                    > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
                    > not too busy with something else right now.)
                    >

                    I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation Enduring
                    Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
                    humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

                    All I would have done was to take out "the" before "Operation Enduring
                    Freedom", because it is a name, and putting "the" before it is slightly (not
                    very) reminiscent of a famous Czech we all know calling her husband "the
                    Donald". I changed "takes" to "is taking", because this participation is
                    something that is taking place now, and it's not a habit or a tradition of
                    any kind.

                    When I thought about my comments from earlier today, I decided I should also
                    remind y'all that Czenglish is not written exclusively by Czechs. The first
                    Czech-to-English translations I did, lo those several years ago, seemed okay
                    to me while I was living in a Czech environment in Marianske Lazne --
                    apparently with some of my skills in my native language eroding -- but now
                    they are extremely painful for me to read, because there is so much Czenglish
                    in them.

                    Jamie


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • kzgafas
                    ... and ... Enduring ... Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning exactly, or not. I must admit you did. Kostas
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 2 5:00 AM
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                      kzgafas@t... writes:
                      >
                      >
                      > > May I ask you - how would you translate this phrase?:
                      > >
                      > > "The Czech Republic takes part in the Operation Enduring Freedom,
                      and
                      > > our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take humanitarian
                      > > action if weapons of mass destruction are used."
                      > >
                      > > Would you translate it differently? I am curious. (Just if you are
                      > > not too busy with something else right now.)
                      > >
                      >
                      > I might say, "The Czech Republic is taking part in Operation
                      Enduring
                      > Freedom, and our troops are on the ground in Kuwait ready to take
                      > humanitarian action, if weapons of mass destruction are used."

                      Thank you. I was curious whether you would preserve the meaning
                      exactly, or not. I must admit you did.

                      Kostas
                    • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                      Dobry den, napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav? Dekuji Vam za navrhy. S pozdravem Lenka S.
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 2 7:33 AM
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                        Dobry den,
                        napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                        Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                        S pozdravem
                        Lenka S.



                        ______________________________________________________
                        Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                      • Dohnalová Kateřina
                        zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne...... ... From: cz519441@tiscali.cz
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 2 7:42 AM
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                          zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                          Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci ne......

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                          To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                          Dobry den,
                          napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                          Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                          S pozdravem
                          Lenka S.



                          ______________________________________________________
                          Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                          Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                          Czechlist resources:
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                        • Miluse Saskova-Pierce
                          here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols! Also Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you Mila
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 2 8:04 AM
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                            here in Nebraska Zdar / Nazdar is still very much in use. The Sokols!

                            Also

                            Here what we are doing in Nebraska. Help us to spread the news. Thank you
                            Mila


                            Lincoln ? Pilsen (Czech Republic) Sister City Ties Established
                            The Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences group founded on the Lincoln
                            UN campus took initiative together with the Mayor of Lincoln Don Wessely
                            and established sister city ties between Lincoln and Pilsen. In 1945
                            Pilsen is an old town in the west of the Czech Republic that was liberated
                            from the Germans by American troupes under the command of general Patton.
                            Several Lincoln citizens, including Verne Lewellen who was a part of the
                            liberation force, will be present in Pilsen during the commemorative
                            ceremonies on May 8, 2003.

                            The Nebraska chapter of the Czechoslovak Society of Arts and Sciences is
                            involved in other projects. Among others, the group is organizing a North
                            American Conference in Cedar Rapids (the site of the National Czech &
                            Slovak Museum) that will take place June 26-28. The two co-chairs of the
                            conference are Mila Saskova-Pierce from the Department of Modern Languages
                            and Cathy Oslzly, Department of Psychology. For information see
                            www.unl.edu/SVUNebraska. The group is also preparing for publication the
                            writings about Czech Nebraska by the late Dr. Vladimir Kucera, a former UNL
                            instructor of the Czech language, and one of the organizers of Czech
                            festivals in Nebraska.

                            Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
                            Minor Languages Section Head
                            Department of Modern Languages
                            University of Nebraska at Lincoln
                            NE 68588-0315

                            e-mail: msaskova-pierce1@...

                            Tel: (402) 472 1336
                            Fax: (402) 472 0327




                            Dohnalová Kateřina
                            <Katerina.Dohnalova To: "'Czechlist@yahoogroups.com'"
                            @...> <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                            cc:
                            2003.04.02 09:42 Subject: RE: [Czechlist] ZDAR!
                            Please respond to
                            Czechlist






                            zdar! (pozdrav); zast. - hail

                            Toto je z online slovniku, a nevim, jestli se to opravdu pouziva ci
                            ne......

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: cz519441@... [mailto:cz519441@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:34 PM
                            To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [Czechlist] ZDAR!


                            Dobry den,
                            napada Vas nekoho vhodny anglicky vyraz pro tento pozdrav?
                            Dekuji Vam za navrhy.
                            S pozdravem
                            Lenka S.



                            ______________________________________________________
                            Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz





                            Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                            Czechlist resources:
                            http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                            Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



                            Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

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                            http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                            Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

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                          • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                            Good evening, Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 2 11:15 AM
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                              Good evening,
                              Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                              wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                              name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                              to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!

                              For NS - is anyone interested in proofreading the translation (about 3 pages)
                              by Friday morning? If so, please contact me off-list (sukova@...).
                              Thank you.
                              Lenka S.



                              ______________________________________________________
                              Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                            • melvyn.geo
                              ... My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests: Success to you! Good luck! Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes.
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 2 3:04 PM
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                                --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                                > Good evening,
                                > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                                > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                                > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                                > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!


                                My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                                Success to you! Good luck!

                                Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is very theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed', which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.

                                Do well! Win through!

                                M.
                              • melvyn.geo
                                ... I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at zdar as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role
                                Message 15 of 21 , Apr 2 3:23 PM
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                                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@d...> wrote:
                                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, cz519441@t... wrote:
                                  > > Good evening,
                                  > > Zdar is supposed to be the name of one restaurant in Prague. The client
                                  > > wants me to find a good translation for the name. I am going to leave the
                                  > > name as it is and would like to write in brackets the best possible translation
                                  > > to give the English speaking guests an idea. Please!!!
                                  >

                                  I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar' as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)

                                  M.
                                • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                                  ... Indeed it does. Thank you, Melvyn. Lenka S. ______________________________________________________ Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ...
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Apr 2 8:54 PM
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                                    >I suppose you could also just ignore the original meaning and look at 'zdar'
                                    >as a general-purpose greeting, in which case it could be said to play the
                                    >role of 'cheers' (= 'nazdar' inter alia - HH). Perhaps it is not an accurate
                                    >translation but it sounds a bit more welcoming than 'good speed'. :-)
                                    >
                                    Indeed it does.
                                    Thank you, Melvyn.
                                    Lenka S.



                                    ______________________________________________________
                                    Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
                                  • cz519441@tiscali.cz
                                    Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client. Have a good day.
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Apr 2 8:56 PM
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                                      Thank you very much, Melvyn, I will go through the suggestions tonight after
                                      I return home from lectures and suggest something to the client.
                                      Have a good day.
                                      Lenka S.


                                      >
                                      >My old Bohemian-English dictionary by Karel Jonas suggests:
                                      >Success to you! Good luck!
                                      >
                                      >Somebody might come up with a few variations on those themes. 'Hail' is
                                      very
                                      >theatrical and bookish IMO. I notice Millennium also suggests 'good speed',
                                      >which is probably not a good idea for a restaurant name.
                                      >
                                      >Do well! Win through!
                                      >
                                      >M.
                                      >
                                      >



                                      ______________________________________________________
                                      Automaticke hlidani nejlevnejsi letenky ... http://www.steward.tiscali.cz
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