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Re: [Czechlist] ISSUE: Capital letters

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  • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
    ... How did he stop being a native speaker? ;-) ... The first thing your client should know is that native speakers usually don t know the capitalization
    Message 1 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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      In a message dated 3/3/03 5:38:32 AM, skront@... writes:

      >I would like to ask if there are any set rules for writing capital letters
      >in salutations. I had the text proofread by native speaker with salutation
      >"Dear exhibitors and visitors". The client told me that their former native
      >speaker

      How did he stop being a native speaker? ;-)

      >translated that as "Dear Exhibitors and Visitors". Are there any
      >set rules for this or both alternatives are possible? Thanks in advance for
      >your replies and suggestions.

      The first thing your client should know is that native speakers usually don't
      know the capitalization rules well. I would have written this salutation the
      same way you did, however, I looked up the rule in the Gregg Reference
      Manual, and sure enough, you're supposed to capitalize "all titles and nouns"
      in a salutation. The book gives "Dear Friends" as its example.

      Jamie
    • Simon Vollam
      Hi again, I m not aware of any fixed rules, but my instinct would be to use capitals. I can t really explain why, except to say that it looks better. Others
      Message 2 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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        Hi again,

        I'm not aware of any fixed rules, but my instinct would be to use capitals.
        I can't really explain why, except to say that it looks better. Others may
        disagree.

        I vaguely remember someone mentioning here in the past that salutations are
        used less often in English than in Czech. That was in the context of website
        announcements. Another example: when introducing programmes on Czech TV, the
        winsome Klara Dolezova often opens by saying "Vazeni divaci ...". But I
        can't imagine her counterparts at the BBC, for instance, saying "Dear
        Viewers". The saluation is simply left out altogether. (This does not apply
        to formal letters and speeches, however.)

        Simon


        > I would like to ask if there are any set rules for writing capital letters
        > in salutations. I had the text proofread by native speaker with salutation
        > "Dear exhibitors and visitors". The client told me that their
        > former native
        > speaker translated that as "Dear Exhibitors and Visitors". Are
        > there any set
        > rules for this or both alternatives are possible? Thanks in
        > advance for your
        > replies and suggestions.
        >
        > Tomas Skront
        >
      • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
        ... A perfect example of Czech using a salutation where English would not came to me over there when a bank VP asked me how to say vazeni zakaznici in
        Message 3 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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          In a message dated 3/3/03 8:03:57 AM, vollams@... writes:

          >I vaguely remember someone mentioning here in the past that salutations are
          >used less often in English than in Czech. That was in the context of website
          >announcements. Another example: when introducing programmes on Czech TV,
          >the winsome Klara Dolezova often opens by saying "Vazeni divaci ...". But I
          >can't imagine her counterparts at the BBC, for instance, saying "Dear
          >Viewers". The saluation is simply left out altogether. (This does not apply
          >to formal letters and speeches, however.)

          A perfect example of Czech using a salutation where English would not came to
          me over there when a bank VP asked me how to say "vazeni zakaznici" in
          English. Sensing trouble, I asked him what he wanted the expression for. It
          turned out that he'd wanted to post a sign in English, saying,

          "Dear Customers,
          Please close the door after using the ATM."

          I told him that in English it should just say, "Please close door after using
          ATM." With a startled look, he asked me, "A neni to neslusne?" My response:
          "Ale rekl jste 'please'."

          Jamie
        • melvyn.geo <zehrovak@dr.com>
          ... Neither can I. In written speeches, I feel that odd-looking openings like Dear Friends can be made to look slightly less odd if you write: My dear
          Message 4 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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            Simon wrote:
            > But I can't imagine her counterparts at the BBC, for instance, saying "Dear Viewers".

            Neither can I. In written speeches, I feel that odd-looking openings like "Dear Friends" can be made to look slightly less odd if you write: "My dear friends".

            M.
          • PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor
            ... to ... It ... using ... I actually don t find Dear Customers wholly inappropriate here. I am also pretty sure that in Dublin etc. less bald notes
            Message 5 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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              > A perfect example of Czech using a salutation where English would not came
              to
              > me over there when a bank VP asked me how to say "vazeni zakaznici" in
              > English. Sensing trouble, I asked him what he wanted the expression for.
              It
              > turned out that he'd wanted to post a sign in English, saying,
              >
              > "Dear Customers,
              > Please close the door after using the ATM."
              >
              > I told him that in English it should just say, "Please close door after
              using
              > ATM." With a startled look, he asked me, "A neni to neslusne?" My
              response:
              > "Ale rekl jste 'please'."

              I actually don't find "Dear Customers" wholly inappropriate here. I am also
              pretty sure that in Dublin etc. less "bald" notes would be used and that
              something such as "We would like to kindly remind customers to (please)
              close the door after using the ATM" would be more common.
              I wonder what the other NSers think...
              Best regards
              Coilin
            • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
              ... Or you can just go with that old standby, You May Already Be a Winner! I once saw a cartoon of a hotdog opening his mail, and the letter began, You may
              Message 6 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                In a message dated 3/3/03 8:55:24 AM, zehrovak@... writes:

                >Neither can I. In written speeches, I feel that odd-looking openings like
                >"Dear Friends" can be made to look slightly less odd if you write: "My
                >dear friends".

                Or you can just go with that old standby, "You May Already Be a Winner!"

                I once saw a cartoon of a hotdog opening his mail, and the letter began, "You
                may already be a wiener!"

                By the way, when I was just beginning to learn Czech, I pretended to make a
                mistake and addressed envelopes to "Smazeny pan". No one ever once said a
                thing about it.

                Jamie
              • melvyn.geo <zehrovak@dr.com>
                ... Hmmm, not wholly inappropriate, just rather unlikely IMHO. I am also ... I wouldn t expect anything _quite_ as flowery but of course you are just
                Message 7 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                  --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor" <coilin.oconnor@s...> wrote:

                  >
                  > I actually don't find "Dear Customers" wholly inappropriate here.

                  Hmmm, not wholly inappropriate, just rather unlikely IMHO.

                  I am also
                  > pretty sure that in Dublin etc. less "bald" notes would be used and that
                  > something such as "We would like to kindly remind customers to (please)
                  > close the door after using the ATM" would be more common.

                  I wouldn't expect anything _quite_ as flowery but of course you are just exaggerating to emphasize a point, er right? :)

                  > I wonder what the other NSers think...

                  Lin, next time you pop out, could you look out for any "Dear Customers" signs in banks, shops etc? Pretty please? Fifty I-Spy points for each one you spot.

                  Big Chief I-Spy
                • Martin Janda
                  Re D.C. being (in)appropriate, are you talking about just door signs etc, or about addressing clients in business letters as well? I guess the most frequent is
                  Message 8 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                    Re D.C. being (in)appropriate, are you talking about just door signs etc, or
                    about addressing clients in business letters as well? I guess the most
                    frequent is Dear Mr. X.Y. there, but what if you don't have the name list
                    available?

                    TIA
                    Martin

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <zehrovak@...>
                    To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:26 PM
                    Subject: [Czechlist] Re: ISSUE: Capital letters


                    > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor"
                    <coilin.oconnor@s...> wrote:
                    >
                    > >
                    > > I actually don't find "Dear Customers" wholly inappropriate here.
                    >
                    > Hmmm, not wholly inappropriate, just rather unlikely IMHO.
                    >
                    > I am also
                    > > pretty sure that in Dublin etc. less "bald" notes would be used and that
                    > > something such as "We would like to kindly remind customers to (please)
                    > > close the door after using the ATM" would be more common.
                    >
                    > I wouldn't expect anything _quite_ as flowery but of course you are just
                    exaggerating to emphasize a point, er right? :)
                    >
                    > > I wonder what the other NSers think...
                    >
                    > Lin, next time you pop out, could you look out for any "Dear Customers"
                    signs in banks, shops etc? Pretty please? Fifty I-Spy points for each one
                    you spot.
                    >
                    > Big Chief I-Spy
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                    >
                    > Czechlist resources:
                    > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
                    >
                    > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • coilin_oconnor <coilin@mybox.cz>
                    ... are just exaggerating to emphasize a point, er right? :) ... OK maybe it s a little OTT, but I do think there are places and situations where signs are
                    Message 9 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                      > > I wouldn't expect anything _quite_ as flowery but of course you
                      are just exaggerating to emphasize a point, er right? :)
                      >
                      > > I wonder what the other NSers think...

                      OK maybe it's a little OTT, but I do think there are places and
                      situations where signs are "slusnejsi" than normal. For instance,
                      you might just get a plain "No Smoking" sign in the hallway of a
                      govt. building, but a fancy hotel might say something like "We would
                      like to remind guests to kindly refrain from smoking in the lobby
                      area". It all depends on how much deference an organisation is
                      expected to show its clients.
                      I think that, even with simple things like signs and notices, a
                      little bit of context does have an impact on the way it might be
                      written.
                      Brgds
                      Coilin
                    • melvyn.geo <zehrovak@dr.com>
                      ... I was following on from Coilin s ATM and had banks uppermost in my mind. In letters and circulars, I think the singular is most likely to be used. ...
                      Message 10 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                        Martin wrote:
                        >Re D.C. being (in)appropriate, are you talking about just door signs etc, or about addressing clients in business letters as well?

                        I was following on from Coilin's ATM and had banks uppermost in my mind. In letters and circulars, I think the singular is most likely to be used.

                        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "coilin_oconnor <coilin@m...>" <coilin@m...> wrote:

                        >
                        > OK maybe it's a little OTT, but I do think there are places and
                        > situations where signs are "slusnejsi" than normal.

                        Sure. And announcements too. There's a section on the subject in Cambridge Success at First Certificate. I once made up an amusing (ahem) anecdote for my students along these lines:

                        One day in the Prague Metro this chap starts walking too close to the edge of the platform. The station supervisor notices and so plays his little tape in Czech warning the passenger to move back to a safe location. No response - so the supervisor plays the English version: "Passengers are kindly requested to refrain from etc etc." Still no response so then the supervisor notices the chap has a can of lager in his hand so he plays the Manchester United English version: "Oy, ***forbrains, move yo bloody ***."

                        Vooom!

                        M.
                      • coilin_oconnor <coilin@mybox.cz>
                        I was just wondering what any local foodies who might still be awake would make of the following: Tournedos s cesnekovou omackou podavane s TESTOVINOVYMI
                        Message 11 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                          I was just wondering what any local foodies who might still be awake
                          would make of the following:

                          Tournedos s cesnekovou omackou podavane s TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY
                          (clusters of pasta????)

                          Grilovane jehneci HREBINKY na cesneku (comb-shaped cuts of lamb???)

                          Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

                          Best regards
                          Coilin
                        • Matej Klimes
                          Hi Coilin, ... TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY - too lazy to go up and look up the Italian name, but they are the flat pasta that comes in nest-like balls in the packet
                          Message 12 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                            Hi Coilin,


                            >

                            TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY - too lazy to go up and look up the Italian name, but
                            they are the flat pasta that comes in nest-like balls in the packet (is it
                            Tagliatele??)



                            > Grilovane jehneci HREBINKY na cesneku (comb-shaped cuts of lamb???)
                            Something tells me that this is (a creative name) for a cut of meat coming
                            from somewhere near the spine???

                            Matej
                          • coilin_oconnor <coilin@mybox.cz>
                            ... name, but ... packet (is it ... Thanks Matej, Tagliatelle is indeed the man I am looking for :-) Best regards Coilin
                            Message 13 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                              --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@m...>
                              wrote:
                              > Hi Coilin,
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY - too lazy to go up and look up the Italian
                              name, but
                              > they are the flat pasta that comes in nest-like balls in the
                              packet (is it
                              > Tagliatele??)
                              >
                              Thanks Matej,
                              Tagliatelle is indeed the man I am looking for :-)
                              Best regards
                              Coilin
                            • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                              ... A little what? ... I can easily see something similar to that, but your example is over the top (I think). ... One thing I noticed in the UK last summer
                              Message 14 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                                In a message dated 3/3/03 4:51:31 PM, coilin@... writes:


                                > OK maybe it's a little OTT,
                                >
                                A little what?

                                > but I do think there are places and
                                > situations where signs are "slusnejsi" than normal.  For instance,
                                > you might just get a plain "No Smoking" sign in the hallway of a
                                > govt. building, but a fancy hotel might say something like "We would
                                > like to remind guests to kindly refrain from smoking in the lobby
                                > area". It all depends on how much deference an organisation is
                                > expected to show its clients.
                                >
                                I can easily see something similar to that, but your example is over the top
                                (I think).

                                > I think that, even with simple things like signs and notices, a
                                > little bit of context does have an impact on the way it might be
                                > written.
                                >
                                One thing I noticed in the UK last summer (my first time there) was how
                                verbose many things appeared to North American eyes. People in general were
                                no more polite and proper than they are here, but simple, utilitarian signs
                                that are supposed to be spotted and read quickly in passing often tended to
                                be extremely overworded. A bus that's speeding through Detroit and not
                                picking up passengers will have a sign that says, "Out of Service". In
                                Oxford I saw one with a sign that said something like, "Sorry, but I'm not
                                picking up passengers right now," as if a roaring bus needs to be apologetic
                                to no one in particular, and as if the average person could take that all in
                                in a split second. Some of the advertising slogans in the tube were also
                                very, very long and therefore not very memorable, and I also see sometimes
                                that cartoons in the Financial Times have captions that are immensely larded
                                up.

                                So, I think there may be different taste in sign wording on the two sides of
                                the ocean.

                                Jamie


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Martin Janda
                                Coilin, sorry for making troubles while you are comfortable with what proposed, but I am afraid tagliatelle is what you would call tasticky in Czech or maybe
                                Message 15 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                                  Coilin, sorry for making troubles while you are comfortable with what
                                  proposed, but I am afraid tagliatelle is what you would call "tasticky" in
                                  Czech or maybe (very little) pies in English and thus far from being the
                                  nest-like balls that Matej was right to mention.

                                  I can't recall having seen the "nests" with any Italian food - but I saw
                                  them selling in my favorite supermarket as "Chinese rice noodles".


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: <coilin@...>
                                  To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 3:17 AM
                                  Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Some more dastardly culinary items


                                  > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@m...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > Hi Coilin,
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY - too lazy to go up and look up the Italian
                                  > name, but
                                  > > they are the flat pasta that comes in nest-like balls in the
                                  > packet (is it
                                  > > Tagliatele??)
                                  > >
                                  > Thanks Matej,
                                  > Tagliatelle is indeed the man I am looking for :-)
                                  > Best regards
                                  > Coilin
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                                  >
                                  > Czechlist resources:
                                  > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
                                  >
                                  > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Matej Klimes
                                  Hi Martin, I think we ll have to do a Czechlist meeting or two at an Italian place to bring you up to date on Italian pasta. Tagliatelle being rice noodles?
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Mar 3, 2003
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                                    Hi Martin,

                                    I think we'll have to do a Czechlist meeting or two at an Italian place to
                                    bring you up to date on Italian pasta. Tagliatelle being rice noodles? You
                                    could lose your life for that comment in certain parts of Italy, fan cullo!
                                    (pardon my language for those who do understand it more than I do... :)


                                    I wasn't sure of the Italian name last night/morning, but I looked it up in
                                    the kitchen before going to bed and Tagliatelle it is - the (usually) green,
                                    spinach-flavored flat pasta with about ten "hnizda" in the packet. I always
                                    thought that was what "testovinova hnizda" meant, but I could be wrong
                                    since they disintegrate after being cooked... still, fancy restorants
                                    sometimes re-arrange them into nests before serving....

                                    Matej



                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Martin Janda" <martinjanda@...>
                                    To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:30 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Some more dastardly culinary items


                                    > Coilin, sorry for making troubles while you are comfortable with what
                                    > proposed, but I am afraid tagliatelle is what you would call "tasticky" in
                                    > Czech or maybe (very little) pies in English and thus far from being the
                                    > nest-like balls that Matej was right to mention.
                                    >
                                    > I can't recall having seen the "nests" with any Italian food - but I saw
                                    > them selling in my favorite supermarket as "Chinese rice noodles".
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: <coilin@...>
                                    > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 3:17 AM
                                    > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Some more dastardly culinary items
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@m...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    > > > Hi Coilin,
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY - too lazy to go up and look up the Italian
                                    > > name, but
                                    > > > they are the flat pasta that comes in nest-like balls in the
                                    > > packet (is it
                                    > > > Tagliatele??)
                                    > > >
                                    > > Thanks Matej,
                                    > > Tagliatelle is indeed the man I am looking for :-)
                                    > > Best regards
                                    > > Coilin
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                                    > >
                                    > > Czechlist resources:
                                    > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
                                    > >
                                    > > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    > >
                                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                                    >
                                    > Czechlist resources:
                                    > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
                                    >
                                    > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                    >
                                  • Pecinkova - preklady
                                    Hi guys, no, Matej is right. Tagliatelle are definitely not anything like tasticky . These would be ravioli - they really look like tasticky . Then there
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                      Hi guys,
                                      no, Matej is right. Tagliatelle are definitely not anything like "tasticky".
                                      These would be "ravioli" - they really look like "tasticky". Then there are
                                      also "tortellini", which is kind of a similar thing but different shape -
                                      they are rolled and formed into small rings.
                                      Iveta

                                      From: Martin Janda <martinjanda@...>
                                      To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:30 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Some more dastardly culinary items


                                      > Coilin, sorry for making troubles while you are comfortable with what
                                      > proposed, but I am afraid tagliatelle is what you would call "tasticky" in
                                      > Czech or maybe (very little) pies in English and thus far from being the
                                      > nest-like balls that Matej was right to mention.
                                      >
                                      > I can't recall having seen the "nests" with any Italian food - but I saw
                                      > them selling in my favorite supermarket as "Chinese rice noodles".
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: <coilin@...>
                                      > To: <Czechlist@yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 3:17 AM
                                      > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Some more dastardly culinary items
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@m...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > Hi Coilin,
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY - too lazy to go up and look up the Italian
                                      > > name, but
                                      > > > they are the flat pasta that comes in nest-like balls in the
                                      > > packet (is it
                                      > > > Tagliatele??)
                                      > > >
                                      > > Thanks Matej,
                                      > > Tagliatelle is indeed the man I am looking for :-)
                                      > > Best regards
                                      > > Coilin
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                                      > >
                                      > > Czechlist resources:
                                      > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
                                      > >
                                      > > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      > >
                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist
                                      >
                                      > Czechlist resources:
                                      > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html
                                      >
                                      > Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                    • Dohnalová Kateřina
                                      Hello, I think the testovinova hnizda are pasta nests, as it really looks like bird nests when served. It would be string like pasta such as spaghetti for
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                        Hello,
                                        I think the testovinova hnizda are pasta nests, as it really looks like bird
                                        nests when served.
                                        It would be string like pasta such as spaghetti for example.

                                        K.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: coilin_oconnor <coilin@...> [mailto:coilin@...]
                                        Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 2:07 AM
                                        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [Czechlist] Some more dastardly culinary items


                                        I was just wondering what any local foodies who might still be awake
                                        would make of the following:

                                        Tournedos s cesnekovou omackou podavane s TESTOVINOVYMI HNIZDY
                                        (clusters of pasta????)

                                        Grilovane jehneci HREBINKY na cesneku (comb-shaped cuts of lamb???)

                                        Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

                                        Best regards
                                        Coilin



                                        Czechlist archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist

                                        Czechlist resources:
                                        http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7953/Intro.html

                                        Post message: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com

                                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      • Simon Vollam
                                        Hi Jamie, ... top (I think). OTT means over the top , as you yourself wrote. Judging by some of your recent postings, you must have had a hard time
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                          Hi Jamie,

                                          >> OK maybe it's a little OTT,

                                          > A little what?

                                          > I can easily see something similar to that, but your example is over the
                                          top
                                          (I think).

                                          OTT means "over the top", as you yourself wrote. Judging by some of your
                                          recent postings, you must have had a hard time understanding what was going
                                          on during your recent UK trip :-)


                                          > "Sorry, but I'm not picking up passengers right now,"

                                          This is a fairly new development. I reckon it's the British service
                                          industry's rather warped take on the US approach. The British tend to think
                                          that all shop assistants/waiters in the USA use platitudes like "Have a nice
                                          day!" or "Enjoy your meal!" (but do they in reality?). So the bus company
                                          has decided to come up with one of its own, however silly it might be.


                                          > Some of the advertising slogans in the tube were also very, very long and
                                          therefore not very memorable

                                          Bear in mind that the long-suffering British public often spend a very, very
                                          long time waiting for public transport, so they have plenty of time to
                                          memorise the adverts. Some of these things can even be quite diverting, if
                                          you forget to bring any other reading matter with you.

                                          The other day I was watching a Canadian TV travel documentary on London.
                                          Very informative. I learnt, for example, that "England is a democratic
                                          country with a parliament".

                                          Simon
                                        • Matej Klimes
                                          ... think ... nice ... They definitely do - to the point of annoyance (to me then) until I taught myself to ignore it the same way I had to teach myself not to
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                            >
                                            > This is a fairly new development. I reckon it's the British service
                                            > industry's rather warped take on the US approach. The British tend to
                                            think
                                            > that all shop assistants/waiters in the USA use platitudes like "Have a
                                            nice
                                            > day!" or "Enjoy your meal!" (but do they in reality?).

                                            They definitely do - to the point of annoyance (to me then) until I taught
                                            myself to ignore it the same way I had to teach myself not to reply (really
                                            reply) when someone asks me "How are you".... I found both of these things
                                            (constant, but somewhat "artificial" attention and "fake" concern over your
                                            conterpart's well-being) a bit annoying when I first got to US, I still do,
                                            but I tolerate it now - it's the way they do things, I don't agree with it
                                            but they don't mean wrong, at least within the context....

                                            And before Jamie and others descend on me with rigteous anger :)

                                            I'm not trying to tell Americans what to do or criticizing them, just
                                            pointing out an observation I made at one point......

                                            Sure, the Czech shop assistants and other people whose job it is to make you
                                            happy being at the best slightly annoyed with your request certainly arent
                                            better, but I found some American clerks, shop attendants, etc. just as
                                            annoyed at having to serve me in the middle of the night at a Safeway,
                                            except they had a big smile on their face and said their sweet ...and how
                                            are you today.. through slightly gritting teeth. It used to get to me and I
                                            though: "We both know you're not happy and I don't look exactly cheerful at
                                            this time of the morning, so let's get on with our lives without having to
                                            pretend we love each other.." I do like people being nice to me, but it
                                            doesn't have to go OTT. Of course that in 99% of cases Americans really mean
                                            it, at least in their own way and lots of people over there, unlike Czechs,
                                            are very friendly "at first encounter" - only sometimes they don't know you
                                            half an hour later or next day, again, generalizing...

                                            Have a nice day!

                                            M
                                          • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                            ... she had never met as a chip off the old block , the block being herself, and the chip being the girl she had never met. She did this because they both
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                              In a message dated 3/4/03 7:17:02 AM, vollams@... writes:


                                              > OTT means "over the top", as you yourself wrote. Judging by some of your
                                              > recent postings, you must have had a hard time understanding what was going
                                              > on during your recent UK trip :-)
                                              >
                                              > I especially had trouble when a girl from Manchester referred to someone
                                              she had never met as "a chip off the old block", the block being herself, and
                                              the chip being the girl she had never met. She did this because they both
                                              had the same idea about something. I always thought that, for you to be a
                                              chip off the old block, the block had to be one of your parents. Very
                                              confusing.

                                              >
                                              > > "Sorry, but I'm not picking up passengers right now,"
                                              >
                                              > This is a fairly new development. I reckon it's the British service
                                              > industry's rather warped take on the US approach. The British tend to think
                                              > that all shop assistants/waiters in the USA use platitudes like "Have a
                                              > nice
                                              > day!" or "Enjoy your meal!" (but do they in reality?). So the bus company
                                              > has decided to come up with one of its own, however silly it might be.
                                              >
                                              Yes, the Americans in service businesses really DO use those platitudes, at
                                              least verbally. When I went to a restaurant for the first time after moving
                                              home from the CR, I asked my friends about the waitress, "Why does she keep
                                              singing to us?!" My friends hadn't noticed anything odd about her speech.

                                              I much prefer the type of service you get on Dutch airlines, where the staff
                                              are warm and do not seem to be using a "technique" on you. Here in the US,
                                              you usually feel service workers are techniquing you to death.

                                              >
                                              > > Some of the advertising slogans in the tube were also very, very long and
                                              > therefore not very memorable
                                              >
                                              > Bear in mind that the long-suffering British public often spend a very,
                                              > very
                                              > long time waiting for public transport, so they have plenty of time to
                                              > memorise the adverts. Some of these things can even be quite diverting, if
                                              > you forget to bring any other reading matter with you.
                                              >
                                              I figured there had to be a reason why they could get away with long slogans
                                              like that.

                                              I was also impressed that there were posters in the stations for BOOKS!
                                              People there READ!

                                              > The other day I was watching a Canadian TV travel documentary on London.
                                              > Very informative. I learnt, for example, that "England is a democratic
                                              > country with a parliament".
                                              >
                                              Not every democratic country has a parliamentary system.

                                              Jamie


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                              ... I don t think the US is the only place where the equivalent of Jak se mate? is meaningless. When teaching from British ESL books in the UK, I was
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                                In a message dated 3/4/03 8:14:30 AM, mklimes@... writes:


                                                > They definitely do - to the point of annoyance (to me then) until I taught
                                                > myself to ignore it the same way I had to teach myself not to reply (really
                                                > reply) when someone asks me "How are you".... I found both of these things
                                                > (constant, but somewhat "artificial" attention and "fake" concern over your
                                                > conterpart's well-being) a bit annoying when I first got to US, I still do,
                                                > but I tolerate it now - it's the way they do things, I don't agree with it
                                                > but they don't mean wrong, at least within the context....
                                                >
                                                I don't think the US is the only place where the equivalent of "Jak se mate?"
                                                is meaningless. When teaching from British ESL books in the UK, I was
                                                startled to find out that the expected answer to "How do you do?" was "How do
                                                you do?" No answer to the question was ever given! I understand from
                                                foreigners here that in the far west of the US (states I've never been to)
                                                many people are so phony that they actually invite you to their homes and
                                                then are shocked when you are so foolish as to show up.

                                                Foreigners here also get confused by "see you later", which is surprising to
                                                me, because "auf Wiedersehen", "a rivederci", "hasta la vista", "la revedere"
                                                and "na shledanou" all basically mean "see you later".

                                                > And before Jamie and others descend on me with rigteous anger :)
                                                >
                                                > I'm not trying to tell Americans what to do or criticizing them, just
                                                > pointing out an observation I made at one point......
                                                >
                                                > Sure, the Czech shop assistants and other people whose job it is to make
                                                > you
                                                > happy being at the best slightly annoyed with your request certainly arent
                                                > better, but I found some American clerks, shop attendants, etc. just as
                                                > annoyed at having to serve me in the middle of the night at a Safeway,
                                                > except they had a big smile on their face and said their sweet ...and how
                                                > are you today.. through slightly gritting teeth.
                                                >
                                                > Since I've been back from the CR, I tell people that I prefer grumpy
                                                competence over cheerful mediocrity any day.

                                                Jamie
                                                >

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Simon Vollam
                                                ... People there READ! Well, they read posters. ... I don t think that was the point the guy was trying to make. He was standing in front of Big Ben, after
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                                  > I was also impressed that there were posters in the stations for BOOKS!
                                                  People there READ!

                                                  Well, they read posters.

                                                  > Not every democratic country has a parliamentary system.

                                                  I don't think that was the point the guy was trying to make. He was standing
                                                  in front of Big Ben, after all. Maybe I should have added a comma after
                                                  "country" - the emphasis was certainly on the word "democratic".

                                                  I was also amused when he said "the city of Bath, near London". It might be
                                                  near by Canadian standards, but to the average Briton sitting in a traffic
                                                  jam on the M4/M25 interchange it can seem a very long way indeed.

                                                  S.
                                                • JPKIRCHNER@aol.com
                                                  ... Yeah, but for us Big Ben is just a huge clock. I m not even positive what that building was that it was attached to. I assume the parliament, but no one
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Mar 4, 2003
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                                                    In a message dated 3/4/2003 2:55:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Simon Vollam" <vollams@...> writes:

                                                    >> Not every democratic country has a parliamentary system.
                                                    >
                                                    >I don't think that was the point the guy was trying to make. He was standing
                                                    >in front of Big Ben, after all.

                                                    Yeah, but for us Big Ben is just a huge clock. I'm not even positive what that building was that it was attached to. I assume the parliament, but no one has ever explicitly told me. Ask me how the tone system in Chinese arose in prehistory, and I can explain that. Ask me if Big Ben and the Tower of London are the same thing, and I can't tell you for sure.

                                                    >Maybe I should have added a comma after
                                                    >"country" - the emphasis was certainly on the word "democratic".

                                                    I suppose there are some people in the world who think that the queen rules the UK. Good to make it clear to those who don't know.

                                                    >I was also amused when he said "the city of Bath, near London". It might be
                                                    >near by Canadian standards, but to the average Briton sitting in a traffic
                                                    >jam on the M4/M25 interchange it can seem a very long way indeed.

                                                    Well, there are those Europeans who think that if you're from Minnesota you can just drop in on their cousin in California. Don't forget also that there are people in the UK, as well as in North America, who think that there is a country called Czechoslovakia and a nationality and language called Czechoslovakian. A German recently described to me his image of life in the Czech Republic, saying that Americans are more likely to feel comfortable there than Germans are, because "you are already used to all that murder." It took me a couple days to realize that he didn't know the difference between society in Russia and in the rest of Eastern Europe.

                                                    So, there are dopes everywhere who need things explained to them.

                                                    Jamie
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