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Re: [Czechlist] Re: FAQ: How to translate Havel

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  • Matej Klimes
    Thanks Melvyn, Simon, Erik, Kostas, Michal... ... oku= ... blush blush... Jenom obcas vycitim, ze bys mohl trochu efektivneji v= ... n= ... a= ... No jo, nikdy
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 6, 2003
      Thanks Melvyn, Simon, Erik, Kostas, Michal...


      > Je to docela hezky kus prace a mas tam nekolik reseni tak sikovnych, ze
      oku=
      > suji tuzku zarlivosti.

      blush blush...

      Jenom obcas vycitim, ze bys mohl trochu efektivneji v=
      > yuzivat vyrazovych zdroju anglictiny, ale asi jsem v pozici Petra Adamka v
      n=
      > edavno citovane korespondenci, kde rika, ze preklad neni adekvatni, ale ne
      a=
      > ne najit ten spravny (viz dal)...

      No jo, nikdy nic neni idealni, (hm, ze? - abych to komentoval spravne po
      Havlovsku)


      V tomto pripade, kde odborne znalosti nehrajou velkou =
      > ulohu zatimco styl hraje podstatnou ulohu, normalne bych ocekaval, aby ten
      p=
      > rvotni preklad 'spachal' rodily mluvci ciloveho jazyka.

      Asi je to skutecne jedno, ja jsem to nechtel jen tak "give away" :) Ale
      stejne si myslim, ze i dlouhodobe pocesteny NS by nemusel pochopit vsechny
      (hlavne meziradkove) nuance a Havlismy a tim padem by spoustu vynechal?? Na
      druhe strane Cech se v nich tak zamota, ze pak potrebuje NS aby to trochu
      probral, hm, ze?

      Ja jsem ten preklad prospikoval poznamkama pod carou, kde jsem pro korektora
      vysvetloval mozne varianty, doplnoval skryte vyznamy atd., aby NS korektor
      mohl premyslet i o jinych zpusobech... meli jsme to asi probrat jeste mezi
      sebou, ale na to kolem Silvestra nezbyl cas...


      > > but whether we should (whether one should) un-Havel Havel's sentences to
      =
      > the point that they'd be any-other-politician's.
      >
      > Ne. A znovu ne.

      Thanks for confirming, I started doubting my initial decision...


      > Asi mas pravdu, ze "revolutionary ferment" nebude uplne na miste a
      "turmoil=
      > " se mi moc libi, ale urcite bych spojil ten kvas se slovem "great". A
      nesl=
      > o by to jako "post-revolutionary"?

      But what revolution? Would every English speaker immediately know? That's
      why I opted for political - that's what it was anyway..

      >
      > duraznejsi rec
      > assertive talk
      > Strasne se mi to libi. Kdyby to byl sachovy tah, dostal bys oceneni "!!"

      blush, blush


      > Predevsim: svet v nas uz davno nevidi jen nejaky zbytek zruseneho statu,
      > First and foremost: the world has long ceased to see us as a left-over of
      s=
      > ome divided country,
      > !!!

      Left-over was criticized, actually, but I like it here...

      >
      > k velke hospodarske kriminalite jako te horsi odpovedi na pokuseni, jimiz
      b=
      > yla privatizace provazena.
      > to rampant white-collar crime, a common ill response to the temptation
      inhe=
      > rent in Czech privatization.
      > !!! Jenom ze slovo "ill" mi moc nesedi ani tady ani jinde v tomto
      prekladu.=
      > Asi "negative" je vhodnejsi tady. Anebo asi bych jenom pouzil 'reaction
      to =
      > the temptations of Czech privatization' a negativnost bych vyjadril
      telesnym=
      > jazykem. :-)

      Not from my brains/guts, but it made sense in the sentence to me. Plus the
      original was so complicated anything sounded better :)

      > ti, kteri vraceji sprave veci verejnych jeji nejvlastnejsi smysl.
      > prove the forgotten truth that public administration is about the public.
      > !!!! Prohryzl jsem tuzku.

      I couldn't do this one, kept thinking in Czech terms (the Czech here is
      actually VERY PS [Polit-Speak] and un-Havel) - thanks to NS proofreaders! I
      actually italicized public to give it an extra touch, but that got lost in
      .html conversion along with other fine formatting.

      > Jenom jednu hrubku jsem nasel:
      > the problems that laid underneath the surface of the previous regime.
      >
      > Lie/lay/lain. :)
      >
      > Jo a "can not" je normalne "cannot".

      Oouch! Back to Cambridge basic....


      > Priklady kde doporucuji efektivnejsi vyuziti anglickeho vyraziva (ale
      netvr=
      > dim, ze moje verze jsou optimalni):

      I agree with all your improvements, thanks, I'll run it past you next time
      if there's time :)

      > jockeying for power

      Not too BrENG?

      > dohadovani
      > haggling je asi expresivnejsi nez pouhe bargaining?

      Well, haggling was the first word that came to me, but I saw Arab markets at
      the same time and wasn't sure if it wasn't too informal a word for a big
      speech.


      > Ten tvuj 'pent-up' se mi ale moc libi. Mimochodem ta posledni veta je
      hezk=
      > e okrasleni! Tam spociva nejaky pribeh?

      They both are the proofreader's


      > Amen?

      Definitely, and thanks.

      Matej
    • melvyn.geo <zehrovak@dr.com>
      ... Kazda strana samozrejme ma svoje slabosti a proto jsem zduraznil tu tymovou praci (neboli vzajemnou spolupraci jak rikame my pocesteni cizi certi),
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 8, 2003
        --- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com, "Matej Klimes" <mklimes@m...> wrote:

        >Ale stejne si myslim, ze i dlouhodobe pocesteny NS by nemusel pochopit vsechny (hlavne meziradkove) nuance a Havlismy a tim padem by spoustu vynechal?? Na druhe strane Cech se v nich tak zamota, ze pak potrebuje NS aby to trochu probral, hm, ze?

        Kazda strana samozrejme ma svoje slabosti a proto jsem zduraznil tu 'tymovou praci' (neboli 'vzajemnou spolupraci' jak rikame my pocesteni cizi certi), spis nez otazku, kdo to nejlip umi - ale jsem prece zvedav - dej mi priklad meziradkove nuance v tomto textu, ktery by asi prehledl zkuseny NS.

        Melvyn napsal:
        >> Asi mas pravdu, ze "revolutionary ferment" nebude uplne na miste a "turmoil" se mi moc libi, ale urcite bych spojil ten kvas se slovem "great". A neslo by to jako "post-revolutionary"?

        Matej se potom vyjadril v tomto smyslu:
        >But what revolution? Would every English speaker immediately know? That's why I opted for political - that's what it was anyway...

        Rekl bych, ze "sametova revoluce" je klicovy pojem, ktery poskytuje spolecnou pudu i pro Havlovo mysleni i pro vedomost prumerneho gramotniho anglofona, anebo kecam? Sice je nekde nekdo v anglofonnim svete, kdo nikdy neslysel o sametaku ale doufal bych, ze prave z takoveho textu by se o nem aspon neco dozvedel. Anebo skutecnost ze nejde o klasickou ozbrojenou revoluci je duvod, abychom se prestali o ni takhle zminovat, i kdyz se tento catchphrase globalne ujal?

        Muj hlavni problem s timto slovnim spojenim je spis to, ze pro me slovo "ferment" ('kvas') oznacuje bublani predtim, nez to vsechno prdne, spis nez neporadek, ktery doprovazi a nasleduje prevratne zmeny, o kterem vlastne mluvi Havel, a proto se mi ten tvuj "turmoil" tak libi. Asi jsem vinen tim, ze chci nejak "zlepsovat" a objasnovat puvodni vyznam ale tim bych nechtel vylit s vanickou i dite, tj klicovy pojem, ktery se bezne spojuje s Havlem.

        >>> Predevsim: svet v nas uz davno nevidi jen nejaky zbytek zruseneho statu,
        >>> First and foremost: the world has long ceased to see us as a left-over of some divided country,

        >> !!!

        >Left-over was criticized, actually, but I like it here...

        No, nekdy se mluvi take napr o "rump Yugoslavia" ale slovo 'left-over(s?)' je pekne vystizne a slovo "divided" hezky roztalo gordicky uzel slova 'zruseny' IMO.

        >> jockeying for power

        >Not too BrENG?

        CNN - Political parties jockey for power in India
        www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/12/india/

        I kdyby nejaky anglofon nikdy v zivote neslysel tento vyraz, coz mi pripada velmi nepravdepodobne (ale zaoceansti kolegove me snad opravi), jenom si ma predstavit, co delaji zokejove kdyz se priblizuji k cili a ihned je to vsechno samozrejme a vystizne, ne? Mimochodem casteji je to "jockeying for position".


        >> dohadovani
        >> haggling je asi expresivnejsi nez pouhe bargaining?

        >Well, haggling was the first word that came to me, but I saw Arab markets at the same time and wasn't sure if it wasn't too informal a word for a big speech.

        Nemame se tady snazit i o urcity (polo)literarni smrnc spis nez o ciste formalni styl?

        Zase pred tebou smekam!

        Melvyn
        ---

        "Makes you think, when you think about it, don't you think?"
        "I don't know. I've never really thought about it."
        - Presumed by Michael to have been overheard by Melvyn on a Manchester bus.
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