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Re: TERM: foreclose

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  • Lucie Formánková
    Michael, I agree that they must have used the term in a confused way. The contract I am working on is really heavy on the legalese jargon and would-be bookish
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Michael, I agree that they must have used the term in a confused way. The
      contract I am working on is really heavy on the legalese jargon and would-be
      bookish expressions of the thereto/hereto/whereby/thereby type, such as
      "whereafter", which I haven't been able to find even in Webster and possibly
      it is a twisted form of "thereafter", adapted to suit a relative clause.
      What do you think about that one?

      L.

      Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:54:56 -0500
      From: Michael Trittipo <tritt002@...>
      Subject: Re: TERM: foreclose

      >
      >
      ><< "The Contractor shall be foreclosed unless he presents complete
      documentary
      >evidence, justification and costs for each of his claims." >>
      >
      >
      I see that Petr has already given you a suggestion for the Czech that
      looks OK.

      << Why then would they use such an obscure word? >>

      Possibly it was written by someone who was not a lawyer but who thought
      they were copying legalese. The English is screwed up, and that
      sometimes happens when non-lawyers think they can just take a legal text
      and adapt it themselves. Unfortunately, for some reason they also shut
      down their sensitivity to English when they do that. It's rather like a
      translator's client deciding that they don't need a new text translated
      by a translator, because (they think) they can just take a previously
      translated text and change a few words here and there and it'll be good.
      Yeah, right. Anyway, usually one would be foreclosed *from something*
      or *from doing something* or a claim is foreclosed by or because of some
      fact, or until some condition exists. Whoever wrote this sentence
      confused the claim and the person. A word like "barred" would have been
      better, most likely, and a rephrasing. In the meantime, it sounds like
      you have the sense and a translation.





      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 3
      Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:17:10 +0200
      From: Zdenek Mikan <zdenek@...>
      Subject: Re: HELP: terms

      Ahoj Jardo,

      Diky za duveru, ale ty vyrazy mi nic moc nerikaji. V posledni vete:

      "An original image displayed on the CRT monitor had a proximal field of 2°
      visual field and a background that was a neutral gray with 20% luminance
      factor."

      bych asi zkusil to proximal field uplne vynechat a nechat tam jen zorne
      pole 2° nebo blízké zorné pole 2°. (Existuji dva standardy mereni barevnych
      souradnic barev podle komice CIE (Comission International d'Eclairage),
      jeden s pokrytim 10 stupnu zorneho pole oka a druhy s pokrytim 2 stupnu.)

      Zdenek Mikan

      >Hello!
      >Thanks to all who have responded to my query so far. Sorry once more for
      >bothering you with the three attempts, I was rather tired after sitting in
      >front of a computer all day long.
      >Of course, the whole piece is about coloristics, as Jirka has pointed out
      >rightly, only I could not come across any proper expression in English and
      >was lazy to look it up in a dictionary, that is why I said "computers"
      >(although Zdenìk, whom I mentioned, deals predominantly with software, and
      >not hardware).
      >Anyway, at the time I was posting it, I had already searched Google and all
      >the resources that might at least remotely have something to say about the
      >topic. I had also made my rough guesses, but still I felt I needed the help
      >from somebody who is really familiar with this topic.
      >So, my rendering of the terms was as follows:
      >blue hue loci = mista modreho odstinu or just modra mista ?
      >ramp data = linearne rostouci udaje ? (I do not believe this is a good
      >translation of it but I still have nothing better)
      >tristimulus values = hodnoty trichromatickych slozek ?
      >proximal field = proximalni pole (i.e. smerem ke stredu) ?
      >Is there anybody who could confirm if these suggestions are of any value at
      >all, and if not, preferably provide better ones?
      >Thanks again.
      >Jarda



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 4
      Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:04:24 +0200
      From: Zdenek Mikan <zdenek@...>
      Subject: Re: HELP: terms

      Ahoj Jardo,

      Diky za duveru, ale ty vyrazy mi nic moc nerikaji. V posledni vete:

      "An original image displayed on the CRT monitor had a proximal field of 2°
      visual field and a background that was a neutral gray with 20% luminance
      factor."

      bych asi zkusil to proximal field uplne vynechat a nechat tam jen zorne
      pole 2° nebo blízké zorné pole 2°. (Existuji dva standardy mereni barevnych
      souradnic barev podle komice CIE (Comission International d'Eclairage),
      jeden s pokrytim 10 stupnu zorneho pole oka a druhy s pokrytim 2 stupnu.)

      Zdenek Mikan

      >Hello!
      >Thanks to all who have responded to my query so far. Sorry once more for
      >bothering you with the three attempts, I was rather tired after sitting in
      >front of a computer all day long.
      >Of course, the whole piece is about coloristics, as Jirka has pointed out
      >rightly, only I could not come across any proper expression in English and
      >was lazy to look it up in a dictionary, that is why I said "computers"
      >(although Zdenìk, whom I mentioned, deals predominantly with software, and
      >not hardware).
      >Anyway, at the time I was posting it, I had already searched Google and all
      >the resources that might at least remotely have something to say about the
      >topic. I had also made my rough guesses, but still I felt I needed the help
      >from somebody who is really familiar with this topic.
      >So, my rendering of the terms was as follows:
      >blue hue loci = mista modreho odstinu or just modra mista ?
      >ramp data = linearne rostouci udaje ? (I do not believe this is a good
      >translation of it but I still have nothing better)
      >tristimulus values = hodnoty trichromatickych slozek ?
      >proximal field = proximalni pole (i.e. smerem ke stredu) ?
      >Is there anybody who could confirm if these suggestions are of any value at
      >all, and if not, preferably provide better ones?
      >Thanks again.
      >Jarda



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 5
      Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:55:34 +0200
      From: "PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor" <coilin.oconnor@...>
      Subject: HELP: term - "lihovy zapalovac"

      Hi there,

      Does anyone know what we would call this in English? I cannot find any
      reliable references on the net for "alcohol/spirit lighters". I have hardly
      any context although I know it uses a wick. Normally I would assume that it
      is a Zippo/windproof lighter but AFAIK these are usually fuelled with
      butane.

      Are there any smokers out there who might be able to help.

      Any suggestions welcome.

      Best regards
      Coilin




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________



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    • Helga Humlova
      Hi Lucie, whereafter sounds very GERMISH. Put it apart into „where“ and „after“ and you get the logical GERMAN „wonach “ which means
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Lucie,

        whereafter sounds very GERMISH.

        Put it apart into „where“ and „after“ and you get the logical GERMAN „wonach
        “ which means „whereupon“ and is to be understood as „po cem, podle ceho,
        podle toho“
        Hope that helps

        Helga

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Lucie Formánková [mailto:formanl@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 12:47 AM
        To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Czechlist] Re: TERM: foreclose


        Michael, I agree that they must have used the term in a confused way. The
        contract I am working on is really heavy on the legalese jargon and would-be
        bookish expressions of the thereto/hereto/whereby/thereby type, such as
        "whereafter", which I haven't been able to find even in Webster and possibly
        it is a twisted form of "thereafter", adapted to suit a relative clause.
        What do you think about that one?

        L.

        Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:54:56 -0500
        From: Michael Trittipo <tritt002@...>
        Subject: Re: TERM: foreclose

        >
        >
        ><< "The Contractor shall be foreclosed unless he presents complete
        documentary
        >evidence, justification and costs for each of his claims." >>
        >
        >
        I see that Petr has already given you a suggestion for the Czech that
        looks OK.

        << Why then would they use such an obscure word? >>

        Possibly it was written by someone who was not a lawyer but who thought
        they were copying legalese. The English is screwed up, and that
        sometimes happens when non-lawyers think they can just take a legal text
        and adapt it themselves. Unfortunately, for some reason they also shut
        down their sensitivity to English when they do that. It's rather like a
        translator's client deciding that they don't need a new text translated
        by a translator, because (they think) they can just take a previously
        translated text and change a few words here and there and it'll be good.
        Yeah, right. Anyway, usually one would be foreclosed *from something*
        or *from doing something* or a claim is foreclosed by or because of some
        fact, or until some condition exists. Whoever wrote this sentence
        confused the claim and the person. A word like "barred" would have been
        better, most likely, and a rephrasing. In the meantime, it sounds like
        you have the sense and a translation.





        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 3
        Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:17:10 +0200
        From: Zdenek Mikan <zdenek@...>
        Subject: Re: HELP: terms

        Ahoj Jardo,

        Diky za duveru, ale ty vyrazy mi nic moc nerikaji. V posledni vete:

        "An original image displayed on the CRT monitor had a proximal field of 2°
        visual field and a background that was a neutral gray with 20% luminance
        factor."

        bych asi zkusil to proximal field uplne vynechat a nechat tam jen zorne
        pole 2° nebo blízké zorné pole 2°. (Existuji dva standardy mereni barevnych
        souradnic barev podle komice CIE (Comission International d'Eclairage),
        jeden s pokrytim 10 stupnu zorneho pole oka a druhy s pokrytim 2 stupnu.)

        Zdenek Mikan

        >Hello!
        >Thanks to all who have responded to my query so far. Sorry once more for
        >bothering you with the three attempts, I was rather tired after sitting in
        >front of a computer all day long.
        >Of course, the whole piece is about coloristics, as Jirka has pointed out
        >rightly, only I could not come across any proper expression in English and
        >was lazy to look it up in a dictionary, that is why I said "computers"
        >(although Zdenìk, whom I mentioned, deals predominantly with software, and
        >not hardware).
        >Anyway, at the time I was posting it, I had already searched Google and all
        >the resources that might at least remotely have something to say about the
        >topic. I had also made my rough guesses, but still I felt I needed the help
        >from somebody who is really familiar with this topic.
        >So, my rendering of the terms was as follows:
        >blue hue loci = mista modreho odstinu or just modra mista ?
        >ramp data = linearne rostouci udaje ? (I do not believe this is a good
        >translation of it but I still have nothing better)
        >tristimulus values = hodnoty trichromatickych slozek ?
        >proximal field = proximalni pole (i.e. smerem ke stredu) ?
        >Is there anybody who could confirm if these suggestions are of any value at
        >all, and if not, preferably provide better ones?
        >Thanks again.
        >Jarda



        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 4
        Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:04:24 +0200
        From: Zdenek Mikan <zdenek@...>
        Subject: Re: HELP: terms

        Ahoj Jardo,

        Diky za duveru, ale ty vyrazy mi nic moc nerikaji. V posledni vete:

        "An original image displayed on the CRT monitor had a proximal field of 2°
        visual field and a background that was a neutral gray with 20% luminance
        factor."

        bych asi zkusil to proximal field uplne vynechat a nechat tam jen zorne
        pole 2° nebo blízké zorné pole 2°. (Existuji dva standardy mereni barevnych
        souradnic barev podle komice CIE (Comission International d'Eclairage),
        jeden s pokrytim 10 stupnu zorneho pole oka a druhy s pokrytim 2 stupnu.)

        Zdenek Mikan

        >Hello!
        >Thanks to all who have responded to my query so far. Sorry once more for
        >bothering you with the three attempts, I was rather tired after sitting in
        >front of a computer all day long.
        >Of course, the whole piece is about coloristics, as Jirka has pointed out
        >rightly, only I could not come across any proper expression in English and
        >was lazy to look it up in a dictionary, that is why I said "computers"
        >(although Zdenìk, whom I mentioned, deals predominantly with software, and
        >not hardware).
        >Anyway, at the time I was posting it, I had already searched Google and all
        >the resources that might at least remotely have something to say about the
        >topic. I had also made my rough guesses, but still I felt I needed the help
        >from somebody who is really familiar with this topic.
        >So, my rendering of the terms was as follows:
        >blue hue loci = mista modreho odstinu or just modra mista ?
        >ramp data = linearne rostouci udaje ? (I do not believe this is a good
        >translation of it but I still have nothing better)
        >tristimulus values = hodnoty trichromatickych slozek ?
        >proximal field = proximalni pole (i.e. smerem ke stredu) ?
        >Is there anybody who could confirm if these suggestions are of any value at
        >all, and if not, preferably provide better ones?
        >Thanks again.
        >Jarda



        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 5
        Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:55:34 +0200
        From: "PSS Praha - Coilin O' Connor" <coilin.oconnor@...>
        Subject: HELP: term - "lihovy zapalovac"

        Hi there,

        Does anyone know what we would call this in English? I cannot find any
        reliable references on the net for "alcohol/spirit lighters". I have hardly
        any context although I know it uses a wick. Normally I would assume that it
        is a Zippo/windproof lighter but AFAIK these are usually fuelled with
        butane.

        Are there any smokers out there who might be able to help.

        Any suggestions welcome.

        Best regards
        Coilin




        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________



        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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      • Michael Trittipo
        ... It exists, somewhat like whereby -- but it s not common. Does after which or whereupon fit in the context? Filip entered, whereafter Hanka left.
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 1, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          >
          >
          >"whereafter", which I haven't been able to find even in Webster and possibly
          >it is a twisted form of "thereafter", adapted to suit a relative clause.
          >
          >
          It exists, somewhat like "whereby" -- but it's not common. Does "after
          which" or "whereupon" fit in the context?

          Filip entered, whereafter Hanka left.
          Filip entered, after which Hanka left.
          Filip entered, whereupon Hanka left.
        • lucinka_f
          Yeah, I think it actually should have been whereupon . At least it fits the meaning of the sentence. Thanks for the suggestions. L. ... and possibly ...
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 2, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Yeah, I think it actually should have been "whereupon". At least it
            fits the meaning of the sentence. Thanks for the suggestions. L.

            --- In Czechlist@y..., Michael Trittipo <tritt002@t...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >"whereafter", which I haven't been able to find even in Webster
            and possibly
            > >it is a twisted form of "thereafter", adapted to suit a relative
            clause.
            > >
            > >
            > It exists, somewhat like "whereby" -- but it's not common.
            Does "after
            > which" or "whereupon" fit in the context?
            >
            > Filip entered, whereafter Hanka left.
            > Filip entered, after which Hanka left.
            > Filip entered, whereupon Hanka left.
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.