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PBfaGE: Nabizime Vam

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  • Erik Piper
    ... I like the latter solution because it s short, although I don t much get the use of in. I offer you the following: We offer [yes, offer] music
    Message 1 of 2 , May 2, 2002
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      Melvyn asked:

      > How do you deal with 'nabizime Vam' in this kind of commercial context?

      > Nabizime Vam usporadani hudebniho programu jako soucast spolecenske akce.

      > ? We can arrange a music programme as part of your social event.
      > ? We can include a programme of music in your social event.

      I like the latter solution because it's short, although I don't much "get"
      the use of "in." I "offer you" the following:

      We offer [yes, offer] music program[me]s [for/to accompany] your social
      [events/gatherings].
      We can provide music program[me]s [for/to accompany] your social
      [events/gatherings].

      > I find "nabizime Vam" is often awkward

      I think it's because English tends to express the "to you" part through
      other parts of the sentence.

      > because "we offer you" IMHO
      > frequently sounds performative (like "we thank you", "I name this
      > ship", "I promise" etc) and that can appear rather brash and silly in
      > a business context.

      Hmm. I sometimes find it quite "fresh" or "invigorating," at least when
      used "s mirou." (Miro, kde ses?!?) Don't you say in BrE "I thank you for
      your call," for example? And what about "We promise this unfortunate
      incident will not recur?"

      > 'We are offering you' is seldom any better

      Sounds Czenglish much of the time.

      > and "we have xyz on offer" rarely works.

      > Elsewhere: we can offer you, we can provide you with, you can
      get/buy/obtain/purchase etc?

      Those all sound good to these ears.

      E.
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    • melvyn.geo
      ... [events/gatherings]. Hail Discordia! I like the to accompany idea. I find it is often necessary to flesh out a bare preposition like this with a phrase
      Message 2 of 2 , May 8, 2002
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        --- In Czechlist@y..., "Erik Piper" <erik@s...> wrote:
        >We offer [yes, offer] music program[me]s [for/to accompany] your
        >social [events/gatherings].
        >We can provide music program[me]s [for/to accompany] your social
        [events/gatherings].

        Hail Discordia!

        I like the "to accompany" idea. I find it is often necessary to flesh
        out a bare preposition like this with a phrase of some kind (e.g.
        "zkusenosti z = the experience we have gained/acquired from" and maybe
        Simon's recent "he grassed on his brother to his mother" problem comes
        under this heading too).

        I feel "we offer" without "you" can work in contexts where it does not
        sound emphatic but try it on its own with a specific product or
        service: "we offer top-quality garden gnomes" or "we offer music
        programmes for your social events" and does it not sound rather blunt?
        Hum, evidently not.

        > because "we offer you" IMHO
        > frequently sounds performative (like "we thank you", "I name this
        > ship", "I promise" etc) and that can appear rather brash and silly
        in
        > a business context.

        >Hmm. I sometimes find it quite "fresh" or "invigorating," at least
        when
        >used "s mirou." (Miro, kde ses?!?) Don't you say in BrE "I thank you
        for
        >your call," for example? And what about "We promise this unfortunate
        >incident will not recur?"

        I quoted the phrases in brackets simply as examples of performative
        uses of verbs - it is specifically "we offer you" with the potential
        idea behind it of an offer being made here and now, which can sound
        brash to me in some commercial contexts.

        >I think it's because English tends to express the "to you" part
        through other parts of the sentence.

        Yes, I'd agree the "(to) you" part is often expressed through other
        parts of the sentence (as in my original offering) but I put it to you
        that this is not because of any tendency on the part of English but
        simply because writers will often try to avoid the expressive "charge"
        behind "we offer you". This is surely demonstrated by the fact that
        the English language has no problems with "we offer you" when a
        certain intensity of expression is actually called for (and in some
        other cases). The fact that you bring Mira into this suggests to me
        that even you can think of contexts where you would also avoid this
        "invigorating" usage.


        >> Elsewhere: we can offer you, we can provide you with, you can
        get/buy/obtain/purchase etc?

        >Those all sound good to these ears.

        To go off on a slight tangent, I notice in my Practical English Usage
        by Michael Swan that while verbs of perception are often used with
        "can" in BrEng, e.g. "I can see Susan coming", AmEng commonly uses
        the verb on its own, e.g. "I see Susan coming". I just wonder if there
        might sometimes be a similar difference of usage in the case of
        "offer". Just a thought.

        As I say, in many contexts I do feel "we offer (you)" somehow needs
        the directness taken out of it and one way to do that is to add a
        "can". Another way is to make the offer implicit in the sentence (e.g.
        "we can provide you with...") as I originally tried to do.

        How about "nabidka spolecnosti" with its list of products and services
        on offer? "Our range of products and services"? Or wait, I have an
        even better idea: "We offer you:" :)

        M.
        -----------------
        Nejvetsi ocarovani je rozcarovani - L. Klima
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