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The THE (was zabyvat se; tzv.)

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  • Simon Vaughan
    ... Do you mind if I change the subject? My feeling is that the is needed before revitalization and construction here, as they are followed by a
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 28, 2002
      > We are systematically providing legal aid to Ochrana vod, a North Moravian
      > civic initiative that promotes revitalization of watercourses, in their
      > fight against construction of ineffective "flood-control" structures on
      > rivers in the Beskydy hills. The company Povodí Odry is building these in
      > an attempt to acquire maximum state funding for its activities.

      Do you mind if I change the subject?

      My feeling is that 'the' is needed before 'revitalization' and
      'construction' here, as they are followed by a possessive.

      I would say:

      'promotes revitalization', but
      'promotes the revitalization of...';

      'fight against construction', but
      'fight against the construction of...'.

      I'm not correcting you, Erik, just saying that I'd do things differently.
      I'd be interested to know whether the other (full) Americans on the list
      would omit the definite article as well in that position. And what would
      the Brits do?

      Simon
    • Michael Grant
      ... I can t justify my preference, but my feeling is that it s OK either way in the first example, but the article should be used in the second example. As for
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 30, 2002
        On 4/28/02 12:20 PM, "Simon Vaughan" <rachelandsimon@...> wrote:

        >> We are systematically providing legal aid to Ochrana vod, a North Moravian
        >> civic initiative that promotes revitalization of watercourses, in their
        >> fight against construction of ineffective "flood-control" structures on
        >> rivers in the Beskydy hills. The company Povodí Odry is building these in
        >> an attempt to acquire maximum state funding for its activities.
        >
        > Do you mind if I change the subject?
        >
        > My feeling is that 'the' is needed before 'revitalization' and
        > 'construction' here, as they are followed by a possessive.
        >
        > I would say:
        >
        > 'promotes revitalization', but
        > 'promotes the revitalization of...';
        >
        > 'fight against construction', but
        > 'fight against the construction of...'.
        >
        > I'm not correcting you, Erik, just saying that I'd do things differently.
        > I'd be interested to know whether the other (full) Americans on the list
        > would omit the definite article as well in that position. And what would
        > the Brits do?

        I can't justify my preference, but my feeling is that it's OK either way in
        the first example, but the article should be used in the second example.

        As for the progressive verb form in the first sentence, I suppose it depends
        on how long this situation has been going on and is expected to continue. If
        the conflict has only existed for a few months and is likely to be resolved
        reasonably soon, I suppose the progressive is OK, but if it's expected to
        drag on indefinitely, I'd use the simple present tense ("We systematically
        provide legal aid...").
        I'm not quite comfortable with that "systematically" either--what exactly is
        it supposed to mean? Are they really providing aid in a systematic manner,
        or is it that the aid they're providing is systematic (or comprehensive,
        maybe?)?

        Michael
        (native speaker of Texas English)

        --
        "It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is important. It's
        not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the
        dark dungeons of the Internet."

        ? George W. Bush, Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000
      • melvyn.geo
        ... Moravian civic initiative ... exactly is it supposed to mean? Are they really providing aid in a systematic manner, or is it that the aid they re providing
        Message 3 of 5 , May 1, 2002
          Erik wrote:
          > >> We are systematically providing legal aid to Ochrana vod, a North
          Moravian civic initiative

          --- In Czechlist@y..., Michael Grant <transman@b...> wrote:
          > I'm not quite comfortable with that "systematically" either--what
          exactly is it supposed to mean? Are they really providing aid in a
          systematic manner, or is it that the aid they're providing is
          systematic (or comprehensive maybe?)?
          >

          It could amount to roughly the same thing, I suppose. In any case, I
          reckon 'comprehensive' is an important element...and perhaps a touch
          of 'dukladny' is needed too. I notice that another meaning
          given in the Academia Slovnik cizich slov is 'ustavicny, trvaly'. How
          about: 'we provide legal aid on a comprehensive and regular basis' or
          'we provide ongoing all-inclusive legal aid'?

          Doesn't it always work out that when you quote a couple of lines from
          your own translation work to illustrate one particular point, a
          hundred other annoying niggles in the text are also spotlighted.

          A very merry May Day late evening to you all.

          M.
        • melvyn.geo
          ... ...are also spotlighted???? How do you deal with nabizime Vam in this kind of commercial context? Nabizime Vam usporadani hudebniho programu jako soucast
          Message 4 of 5 , May 1, 2002
            --- In Czechlist@y..., "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@d...> wrote:
            ...are also spotlighted????

            How do you deal with 'nabizime Vam' in this kind of commercial
            context?

            Nabizime Vam usporadani hudebniho programu jako soucast spolecenske
            akce.

            ? We can arrange a music programme as part of your social event.
            ? We can include a programme of music in your social event.

            I find "nabizime Vam" is often awkward because "we offer you" IMHO
            frequently sounds performative (like "we thank you", "I name this
            ship", "I promise" etc) and that can appear rather brash and silly in
            a business context. 'We are offering you' is seldom any better and "we
            have xyz on offer" rarely works.

            Elsewhere: we can offer you, we can provide you with, you can
            get/buy/obtain/purchase etc?

            M.
          • Michael Grant
            ... H bout xyz is available ? Michael -- We re lost but we re making good time. - Yogi Berra
            Message 5 of 5 , May 1, 2002
              On 5/1/02 12:28 PM, "melvyn.geo" <zehrovak@...> wrote:

              > Nabizime Vam usporadani hudebniho programu jako soucast spolecenske
              > akce.
              >
              > ? We can arrange a music programme as part of your social event.
              > ? We can include a programme of music in your social event.
              >
              > I find "nabizime Vam" is often awkward because "we offer you" IMHO
              > frequently sounds performative (like "we thank you", "I name this
              > ship", "I promise" etc) and that can appear rather brash and silly in
              > a business context. 'We are offering you' is seldom any better and "we
              > have xyz on offer" rarely works.

              H'bout "xyz is available"?
              Michael

              --
              "We're lost but we're making good time."
              - Yogi Berra
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