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49649Re: [Czechlist] Re: Use of the TM symbol in Czech

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  • Martin Janda
    Aug 9, 2012
      I beg to disagree, Jirka. The Czech web, media and space around us are
      full of conjugated forms of all kinds of brand names, not only Adroid.
      No one seem to initiate any lawsuits because of that, let alone
      multimilion lawsuits. What would you want to claim/complaint of? Brani
      znacky bozi bez trejdmarku do ust nadarmo? What harm this should make to
      whom? No one will tell you why even if you ask your clients. A legal
      thing, yes. I can almost hear American lawyers: 'We don't think you
      would need to use furcoats in Borneo but please keep wearing them, just
      in case a snow storm arrives.'

      As to stubborn refusals - it depends what is my goal. Whether to make
      the paying customer happy whatever the costs are, or to make the end
      user of my text happy. I go for the latter... and if the paying
      customer is reasonable and listen to me, s/he will be happy too. (And I
      am trying hard to keep the reasonable ones and avoid the rest.)

      Martin



      Dne 9.8.2012 21:19, Pilucha, Jiri napsal(a):
      >
      >
      > Re> „it looks weird in a Czech sentence, especially when the word is
      > conjugated (it has an ending tacked onto it, which makes it sound
      > Czech, AND technically it's not the Trade Mark any more, Android is,
      > but AndroidEM isn't, I doubt they registered every possible variant in
      > all languages)... this is a cultural thing“
      >
      > I’d say it’s a legal thing rather than a cultural thing.
      > They don’t need to „register every possible variant in all languages“,
      > simply because (legally) you are not permitted to change the word in
      > any way. Conjugating the word is violation of the Trade Mark. Strictly
      > speaking you should never use „Androidem“ but always „operacnim
      > systemem Android“. It’s not about „what works better in Czech“ but
      > about multimillion lawsuits. Obviously, it is a pain in the *ss to do
      > this all the time, but here’s the key point: if your client releases
      > your translation wehere the word is changed and thus the trade mark
      > violated (especially in high visibility instances such as advertisng),
      > it’s THEM who’s running the risk of legal action against them. Highly
      > unlikely but not unheard of.
      >
      > That much for conjugating the TM-ed words. As for using TM on every
      > occurrence of the word, I agree it’s a lot more elegant to resolve it
      > by small print footnotes instead, and that’s exactly what you see most
      > of the time in the US too (i.e. it’s not a matter of „decent language
      > feeling“ of Czechs as Martin put it) but if the client insists on it I
      > can see no reason why stubbornly refuse it.
      >
      > Jiri
      >
      >
      > From: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > [mailto:Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Martin Janda
      > Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2012 11:17 AM
      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Re: Use of the TM symbol in Czech
      >
      >
      >
      > No, that's a preference of all native Czechs (or at least those with a
      > decent language feeling). That's something I keep struggling with every
      > day when facing my clients, typically US-based agency PMs. My favorite
      > reply to those requests is something like this:
      >
      > Imagine you have a Spanish client asking you to translate their fancy
      > Spanish ad into English. The client demands that you keep all inverted
      > questionmarks and exclamation marks (that they use at the beginning of
      > sentences) because 'If it works in Spanish, then it must work in English
      > too'. Would you be happy with that?
      >
      > Another M
      >
      > Dne 9.8.2012 9:49, Matej Klimes napsal(a):
      > >
      > > I did (let them have it if they want to), but I told them it's going to
      > > look silly in an ad headline... the reason I asked here was to confirm
      > > whether that's not just my theory/preference..
      > >
      > >
      > > M
      > > ------ Original Message ------
      > > From: "wustpisk" <gerry.vickers@...
      > <mailto:gerry.vickers%40gmail.com><mailto:gerry.vickers%40gmail.com>
      > > <mailto:gerry.vickers%40gmail.com>>
      > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: 8.8.2012 15:31:33
      > > Subject: [Czechlist] Re: Use of the TM symbol in Czech
      > > > If they want their little TM, let them have it
      > > >koho chleba jís, toho pisen zpivej
      > > >
      > > >Neres to :)
      > > >
      > > >--- In Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>, "Matej Klimes"
      > <mklimes@...<mailto:mklimes@...>> wrote:
      > > >>
      > > >> A client's client insists on using TM in superscript above the word
      > > >> Android in advertising copy in Czech, where the word Android is
      > > >> conjugated, i.e. it's an advert headline that says someting like
      > > >(made
      > > >> up example):
      > > >>
      > > >> Rozumim si s Androidem - where the ENG original was something like
      > > >'I
      > > >> am made for Android'
      > > >>
      > > >> (the adverts are for a consumer electronic device unrelated to
      > > >> Android/google, just using it and the bits in questions are
      > > >headlines,
      > > >> not body copies, or small print..)
      > > >>
      > > >> It wasn't there originally, but now the client's client (the
      > > >> manufacturer) came back saying there has to be a (TM) after every
      > > >> Android - makes sense (and looks/sounds fine) in English, but I'm
      > > >> trying to tell them that we don't normally use it in Czech in plain
      > > >> text (let alone in advertising copy/headlines), I guess the main
      > > >reason
      > > >> is that it's an English abbreviation and it looks weird in a Czech
      > > >> sentence, especially when the word is conjugated (it has an ending
      > > >> tacked onto it, which makes it sound Czech, AND technically it's not
      > > >> the Trade Mark any more, Android is, but AndroidEM isn't, I doubt
      > > >they
      > > >> registered every possible variant in all languages)... this is a
      > > >> cultural thing, we just don't do it in text or in copy - there'll be
      > > >a
      > > >> small print footnote saying that Coca Cola is registered TM of xxx
      > > >etc.
      > > >> (in Czech), but the copy itself - especially headlines - will not
      > > >have
      > > >> any TM in it in Czech adverts...
      > > >>
      > > >> Can you confirm (or not) this feeling/opinion? Both Czech and ENG
      > > >> speakers? Thoughts?
      > > >>
      > > >> Thanks
      > > >>
      > > >> Matej
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
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