Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

46906Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e

Expand Messages
  • James Kirchner
    Aug 3, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      "Odd-sock eater" sounds like a creature that eats "odd socks", i.e., socks that have something odd about them. North Americans (especially children) are unlikely to use the word "odd" to mean "a sock here and there", so they would understand "odd-sock" as meaning a misfit sock.

      Since the term "sock eater" is already pervasive in the two largest English-speaking countries, it's probably better to use that expression than to devise something odd that will make things explicit to UK ears but grate on everyone else's.

      Jamie

      On Aug 3, 2011, at 9:20 AM, Charlie Stanford Translations wrote:

      > I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone of your posting and of Jamie's enough to put my back up. If you put a hyphen Jamie between "odd" and "sock" then it is pretty damn obvious that the sock eater is not "strange" but eating only one of your socks - which is the basic tenet of the book. More importantly, if this forum is going to work then both of you have to use a little bit of tactfulness and respect and not get quite so horrendously dogmatic and domineering with your answers. I did not "diss" your answers so I don't see any reason why you should do the same with mine. It is putting me off answering questions. I do not know all the answers but neither do you. I would be interested to hear from other English native speakers but to me "sock eaters" sounds "very boring and characterless and a bit crap" - there you go....
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Stephan von Pohl
      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:48 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
      >
      > Matej, it doesn't sound mysterious or poetic. It sounds confusing and
      > wordy. Trust us native speakers. Leave out the "odd".
      >
      > On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      > > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
      > > out the odd part
      > >
      > > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
      > > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
      > > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
      > > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
      > > does take some of the poetry out..
      > >
      > > M
      > >
      > >
      > > ------ Original Message ------
      > > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
      > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
      > > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: 3.8.2011 14:11:28
      > > Subject: Re: Re[6]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
      > > Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
      > > >So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
      > > out the odd part, though I think that it goes without saying. If they
      > > ate both socks you probably never know unless they were your favorites... :)
      > > >
      > > >"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
      > > >
      > > >>
      > > >>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are discussing
      > > >>socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise before, would
      > > >>you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just wondering...
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>No, it isn't - I said that in my original post... the socks bit only
      > > >>becomes apparent when you read the explanation... and although the
      > > >>explanation is for socks only, I guess it would work with any other
      > > >>thing that comes in pairs (mind you, they look like socks)... In Czech
      > > >>we say things like 'kamenozrout' (some sort of mystical creature that
      > > >>eats stones), so lichozrout kind of has that quality about it without
      > > >>knowing about the socks..
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >> but then given the popularity I think it has became a bit of a
      > > >>household name among families whose kids read the books.... and with it
      > > >>being mentioned hundred times in the film (I would expect)... it should
      > > >>have the same snappiness to it... it doesn't necessarily have to be
      > > >>self-explanatory, just open-ended and poetic and to do with
      > > >>odd-numbers/breaking a pair of something if possible..
      > > >>
      > > >>Matej
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>------ Original Message ------
      > > >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
      > > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
      > > >>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > >>Sent: 3.8.2011 13:57:42
      > > >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
      > > >>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
      > > >>>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
      > > discussing socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise
      > > before, would you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just
      > > wondering...
      > > >>>
      > > >>>"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
      > > >>>
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>> > Do the gangs have names in Czech?
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>In the book? - not sure... I've just seen the mob sub-species mentioned
      > > >>>>somewhere...
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>In real life? We just say mafie - and obviously ours is of the
      > > >>>>Russian/Balkans variety when foreign, but the word is used for any
      > > >>>>organised crime group (more often than not to do with soccer team
      > > >>>>owners)..
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>I just got the idea because you were discussing the
      > > >>>>Jewish/Brooklyn/Delicatessen Sock-nosher (BTW I didn't know of any
      > > >>>>Jewish origins and understood it no probs, but I have a feeling it's
      > > >>>>one of those translations that a Czech client will not take:)....
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>Maybe we could have several sub-species/names depending on what the
      > > >>>>creatures do..
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>I like sock-eaters and other suggestions alot, shame we won't have the
      > > >>>>'lichy' thing in there, but I guess you can't have anything..
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>M
      > > >>>>------ Original Message ------
      > > >>>>From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
      > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
      > > >>>>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > >>>>Sent: 3.8.2011 14:09:41
      > > >>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
      > > >>>>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
      > > >>>>> Do the gangs have names in Czech?
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> Well, apparently there's going to be rival bands of lichozrouti
      > > >>>>>> competing for socks and even a dark mob-style boss/gang.... any
      > > >>>>>> Sock-Xers name that would go with that?
      > > >>>>>>
      > > >>>>>> Matej
      > > >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
      > > >>>>>> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
      > > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
      > > >>>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > > >>>>>> Sent: 3.8.2011 13:59:19
      > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
      > > >>>>>> Lichac^e
      > > >>>>>> >I actually think more children would be familiar with the term
      > > >>>>>"sock eater" than would know the word "troll".
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >"Sock nosher" sounds like a good term to use in the sequel -- maybe
      > > >>>>>even for a sock eater with a Brooklyn accent. :-) He could run a sock
      > > >>>>>delicatessen.
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >Jamie
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though
      > > >>>>>its roots are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I
      > > >>>>>always say that if a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows
      > > >>>>>what it is, then most people in the English-speaking world probably
      > > >>>>>do! :) But I guess it could be a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed
      > > >>>>>to flow a bit, but using the word nosh too often in the book could get
      > > >>>>>a bit tiresome. So I think the best ideas are sockeater or sock-troll,
      > > >>>>>in my humble opinion.
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
      > > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> napsal(a):
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>Jamie,
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls
      > > >>>>>who hide
      > > >>>>>> >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them
      > > >>>>>actually
      > > >>>>>> >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At
      > > >>>>>least
      > > >>>>>> >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes
      > > >>>>>about
      > > >>>>>> >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most
      > > >>>>>but
      > > >>>>>> >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a
      > > >>>>>little
      > > >>>>>> >>>too much of New York Jewish)
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>Steve
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American
      > > >>>>>"folklore" and in
      > > >>>>>> >>>>the English language (at least in the US).
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer
      > > >>>>>called "the
      > > >>>>>> >>>>Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other
      > > >>>>>one.
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
      > > >>>>>> >>>>American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get
      > > >>>>>into
      > > >>>>>> >>>>the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>Jamie
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hi there,
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of
      > > >>>>>a title
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>of a book/upcoming film...
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>It started life as a series of children books about weird
      > > >>>>>'beings' who
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of
      > > >>>>>pairs of
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
      > > >>>>>google text
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the
      > > >>>>>story
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>(and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks
      > > >>>>>of it..
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics
      > > >>>>>come
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>through OK):
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>...no řekni, není to téma na román?
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se
      > > >>>>>osobně
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl
      > > >>>>>nám
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
      > > >>>>>Lichožroutů
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>v podání Báry
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Hrzánové.
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
      > > >>>>>překládat do
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>cizích jazyků.
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů
      > > >>>>>licháče, vědět
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>víc. A chtěli je vidět.
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
      > > >>>>>they have
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
      > > >>>>>translator)...
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
      > > >>>>>'unpoetic'),
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like
      > > >>>>>in the
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Czech title..
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO
      > > >>>>>leans
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I
      > > >>>>>think
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come
      > > >>>>>up, among
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>other things:
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>
      > > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or
      > > >>>>>is the
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until
      > > >>>>>I read
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic,
      > > >>>>>but
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being
      > > parted...
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
      > > >>>>>descriptive, too
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
      > > >>>>>characters
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>will be called that in the film... I think something a little
      > > >>>>>snappier
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>is needed)...
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination
      > > >>>>>a little
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>- just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an
      > > >>>>>odd
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Thanks for comments..
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be
      > > >>>>>taken
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have
      > > >>>>>become
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>explanation above), I'm all ears...
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneven-eaters
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>uneveners
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>unevenators
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>???
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Are there other words that could be used (impair????
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>impairers/unpairers)???
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>TIAVM for comments and suggestions
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>Matej
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>------------------------------------
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >>
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >------------------------------------
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>
      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>
      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
      > > >>>>>> > (Yahoo! ID required)
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>
      > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
      > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>
      > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>> >
      > > >>>>>>
      > > >>>>>>
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
      > > >>>>>(20110803) __________
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>>
      > > >>>>
      > > >>http://www.eset.cz/
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>------------------------------------
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
      > > >>> (Yahoo! ID required)
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
      > > (20110803) __________
      > > >>>
      > > >>>Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>http://www.eset.cz
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > >
      > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/
      > > >
      > > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Czechlist/join
      > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >__________ Informace od ESET Smart Security, verze databaze 6346
      > > (20110803) __________
      > > >
      > > >Tuto zpravu proveril ESET Smart Security.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >http://www.eset.cz
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Show all 29 messages in this topic