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46899Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e

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  • Charlie Stanford Translations
    Aug 3, 2011
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      I also happen to be a native speaker Stephan.... and I find the tone of your posting and of Jamie's enough to put my back up. If you put a hyphen Jamie between "odd" and "sock" then it is pretty damn obvious that the sock eater is not "strange" but eating only one of your socks - which is the basic tenet of the book. More importantly, if this forum is going to work then both of you have to use a little bit of tactfulness and respect and not get quite so horrendously dogmatic and domineering with your answers. I did not "diss" your answers so I don't see any reason why you should do the same with mine. It is putting me off answering questions. I do not know all the answers but neither do you. I would be interested to hear from other English native speakers but to me "sock eaters" sounds "very boring and characterless and a bit crap" - there you go....


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Stephan von Pohl
      To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 2:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e



      Matej, it doesn't sound mysterious or poetic. It sounds confusing and
      wordy. Trust us native speakers. Leave out the "odd".

      On 8/3/2011 2:46 PM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      > So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
      > out the odd part
      >
      > Yes, except (to me), it sounds more mysterious with the odd/lichy thing
      > rather than with the sock thing.... plus it's not a normally-used word,
      > so that adds to the mystique too... If sock-eaters exist in the
      > collective American folklore, then I guess that's the way to go, but it
      > does take some of the poetry out..
      >
      > M
      >
      >
      > ------ Original Message ------
      > From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
      > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
      > To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: 3.8.2011 14:11:28
      > Subject: Re: Re[6]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
      > Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
      > >So since lichozrout leaves out the sock bit, the sock-eater leaves the
      > out the odd part, though I think that it goes without saying. If they
      > ate both socks you probably never know unless they were your favorites... :)
      > >
      > >"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
      > >
      > >>
      > >>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are discussing
      > >>socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise before, would
      > >>you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just wondering...
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>No, it isn't - I said that in my original post... the socks bit only
      > >>becomes apparent when you read the explanation... and although the
      > >>explanation is for socks only, I guess it would work with any other
      > >>thing that comes in pairs (mind you, they look like socks)... In Czech
      > >>we say things like 'kamenozrout' (some sort of mystical creature that
      > >>eats stones), so lichozrout kind of has that quality about it without
      > >>knowing about the socks..
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> but then given the popularity I think it has became a bit of a
      > >>household name among families whose kids read the books.... and with it
      > >>being mentioned hundred times in the film (I would expect)... it should
      > >>have the same snappiness to it... it doesn't necessarily have to be
      > >>self-explanatory, just open-ended and poetic and to do with
      > >>odd-numbers/breaking a pair of something if possible..
      > >>
      > >>Matej
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>------ Original Message ------
      > >>From: "Kent Christopher Kasha" <kasha@...
      > <mailto:kasha%40terminal.cz>>
      > >>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >>Sent: 3.8.2011 13:57:42
      > >>Subject: Re: Re[4]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
      > >>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
      > >>>Matej, is it evident from the word lichozrout that they are
      > discussing socks? If you had never heard of the book or its premise
      > before, would you automatically know that it is socks he is eating? Just
      > wondering...
      > >>>
      > >>>"Matej Klimes" <mklimes@... <mailto:mklimes%40volny.cz>> napsal(a):
      > >>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>> > Do the gangs have names in Czech?
      > >>>>
      > >>>>In the book? - not sure... I've just seen the mob sub-species mentioned
      > >>>>somewhere...
      > >>>>
      > >>>>In real life? We just say mafie - and obviously ours is of the
      > >>>>Russian/Balkans variety when foreign, but the word is used for any
      > >>>>organised crime group (more often than not to do with soccer team
      > >>>>owners)..
      > >>>>
      > >>>>I just got the idea because you were discussing the
      > >>>>Jewish/Brooklyn/Delicatessen Sock-nosher (BTW I didn't know of any
      > >>>>Jewish origins and understood it no probs, but I have a feeling it's
      > >>>>one of those translations that a Czech client will not take:)....
      > >>>>
      > >>>>Maybe we could have several sub-species/names depending on what the
      > >>>>creatures do..
      > >>>>
      > >>>>I like sock-eaters and other suggestions alot, shame we won't have the
      > >>>>'lichy' thing in there, but I guess you can't have anything..
      > >>>>
      > >>>>M
      > >>>>------ Original Message ------
      > >>>>From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
      > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
      > >>>>To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >>>>Sent: 3.8.2011 14:09:41
      > >>>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest:
      > >>>>Lichoz^routi, Lichac^e
      > >>>>> Do the gangs have names in Czech?
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 8:03 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>> Well, apparently there's going to be rival bands of lichozrouti
      > >>>>>> competing for socks and even a dark mob-style boss/gang.... any
      > >>>>>> Sock-Xers name that would go with that?
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Matej
      > >>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
      > >>>>>> From: "James Kirchner" <jpklists@...
      > <mailto:jpklists%40sbcglobal.net>>
      > >>>>>> To: Czechlist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Czechlist%40yahoogroups.com>
      > >>>>>> Sent: 3.8.2011 13:59:19
      > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Czechlist] Creative translation contest: Lichoz^routi,
      > >>>>>> Lichac^e
      > >>>>>> >I actually think more children would be familiar with the term
      > >>>>>"sock eater" than would know the word "troll".
      > >>>>>> >
      > >>>>>> >"Sock nosher" sounds like a good term to use in the sequel -- maybe
      > >>>>>even for a sock eater with a Brooklyn accent. :-) He could run a sock
      > >>>>>delicatessen.
      > >>>>>> >
      > >>>>>> >Jamie
      > >>>>>> >
      > >>>>>> >On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:28 AM, Kent Christopher Kasha wrote:
      > >>>>>> >
      > >>>>>> >
      > >>>>>> >>
      > >>>>>> >>Yeah, it came into the English language through Yiddish, though
      > >>>>>its roots are in German, as a lot of Yiddish words are, I guess. I
      > >>>>>always say that if a prairie boy from the plains of Saskatchewan knows
      > >>>>>what it is, then most people in the English-speaking world probably
      > >>>>>do! :) But I guess it could be a bit more obscure. I thought it seemed
      > >>>>>to flow a bit, but using the word nosh too often in the book could get
      > >>>>>a bit tiresome. So I think the best ideas are sockeater or sock-troll,
      > >>>>>in my humble opinion.
      > >>>>>> >>
      > >>>>>> >>Stephan von Pohl <stephan.pohl@...
      > <mailto:stephan.pohl%40centrum.cz>> napsal(a):
      > >>>>>> >>
      > >>>>>> >>>
      > >>>>>> >>>Jamie,
      > >>>>>> >>>
      > >>>>>> >>>Yes, this type of creature exists, just like the little trolls
      > >>>>>who hide
      > >>>>>> >>>your car keys all the time. But I've never come across them
      > >>>>>actually
      > >>>>>> >>>having a name. We never called them "sockeaters" (in the US). At
      > >>>>>least
      > >>>>>> >>>not in the sense that they had a name: we would just make jokes
      > >>>>>about
      > >>>>>> >>>the creatures that ate our socks.
      > >>>>>> >>>
      > >>>>>> >>>Kent: Sock-noshers is nice. But maybe a little too specific (most
      > >>>>>but
      > >>>>>> >>>not all people know what "to nosh" means, but it still smacks a
      > >>>>>little
      > >>>>>> >>>too much of New York Jewish)
      > >>>>>> >>>
      > >>>>>> >>>Steve
      > >>>>>> >>>
      > >>>>>> >>>On 8/3/2011 1:28 PM, James Kirchner wrote:
      > >>>>>> >>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>Matej, this type of "being" already exists in American
      > >>>>>"folklore" and in
      > >>>>>> >>>>the English language (at least in the US).
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>Every American knows that there is a creature in every dryer
      > >>>>>called "the
      > >>>>>> >>>>Sock Eater" that eats one sock in a pair and leaves the other
      > >>>>>one.
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>So if you call these books/films simply "The Sock Eaters", every
      > >>>>>> >>>>American will know immediately that it's about creatures who get
      > >>>>>into
      > >>>>>> >>>>the laundry and eat just one sock from a pair.
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>Jamie
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>On Aug 3, 2011, at 7:01 AM, Matej Klimes wrote:
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Hi there,
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>a client asked me to review/improve the English translation of
      > >>>>>a title
      > >>>>>> >>>>>of a book/upcoming film...
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>It started life as a series of children books about weird
      > >>>>>'beings' who
      > >>>>>> >>>>>are responsible for the disappearance of single socks out of
      > >>>>>pairs of
      > >>>>>> >>>>>socks..... now they are making it into a 3D animation, do a
      > >>>>>google text
      > >>>>>> >>>>>and image search for Lichozrouti and you'll get the idea... the
      > >>>>>story
      > >>>>>> >>>>>(and the aesthetics) are a bit of a KUKY rip-off by the looks
      > >>>>>of it..
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Here's bits of text that explains the thing (hope diacritics
      > >>>>>come
      > >>>>>> >>>>>through OK):
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>...vždyť každému na světě se alespoň jednou ztratila ponožka!
      > >>>>>> >>>>>...no řekni, není to téma na román?
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Takhle jsem se před časem zeptala spisovatele Pavla Šruta,
      > >>>>>> >>>>>když jsme za sebou měli už řadu společných, kritikou i čtenáři
      > >>>>>> >>>>>uvítaných knih pro děti. A tak vznikli Lichožrouti, knižní
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>bestseller, který posbíral řadu cen a zvedl vlnu
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>ohlasů na internetu i v knihovnách a na školách, jak jsme se
      > >>>>>osobně
      > >>>>>> >>>>>mohli přesvědčit. Kdekdo měl ty své lichožrouty doma a vyprávěl
      > >>>>>nám
      > >>>>>> >>>>>tu svou historku o ztracených ponožkách. Ten zájem si vynutil
      > >>>>>> >>>>>i pokračování - Lichožrouti se vracejí. A také audioverzi
      > >>>>>Lichožroutů
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>v podání Báry
      > >>>>>> >>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Hrzánové.
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Kniha se pro internacionální srozumitelnost tématu začala
      > >>>>>překládat do
      > >>>>>> >>>>>cizích jazyků.
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Všichni, včetně mne, chtěli o těch, kteří dělají z párů
      > >>>>>licháče, vědět
      > >>>>>> >>>>>víc. A chtěli je vidět.
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>The books are by Pavel Srut and are apparently quite popular,
      > >>>>>they have
      > >>>>>> >>>>>been translated (possibly by Srut himself, he's also a
      > >>>>>translator)...
      > >>>>>> >>>>>AFAIK they've been using two translations of the title:
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-sock eaters (IMHO that's a bit long, literal and
      > >>>>>'unpoetic'),
      > >>>>>> >>>>>but it says what they do... there's no poetry or mystique like
      > >>>>>in the
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Czech title..
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>- the odd-eaters - I like this one better, but the meaning IMHO
      > >>>>>leans
      > >>>>>> >>>>>toward 'divnozrouti' (odd being both lichy and divny), which I
      > >>>>>think
      > >>>>>> >>>>>would be OK, except I checked it online and here's what come
      > >>>>>up, among
      > >>>>>> >>>>>other things:
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy-ncbUPg-s
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Now is that the meaning that first comes into native minds, or
      > >>>>>is the
      > >>>>>> >>>>>word 'odd-eaters' sort of open-ended?
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>I must say I didn't get the full meaning of 'Lichozrouti' until
      > >>>>>I read
      > >>>>>> >>>>>the text above... on its own, it sounds mysterious and poetic,
      > >>>>>but
      > >>>>>> >>>>>doesn't give you the full idea of pairs of socks being
      > parted...
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>To me, the first translation above is sort of boring,
      > >>>>>descriptive, too
      > >>>>>> >>>>>long and too literal - not suited for a film title (plus the
      > >>>>>characters
      > >>>>>> >>>>>will be called that in the film... I think something a little
      > >>>>>snappier
      > >>>>>> >>>>>is needed)...
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>The second one is much better, it leaves things to imagination
      > >>>>>a little
      > >>>>>> >>>>>- just as the Czech title does... but I'm worried about other
      > >>>>>> >>>>>meanings/associations (why doesn't English have a word for an
      > >>>>>odd
      > >>>>>> >>>>>number that doesn't also mean 'weird'?)...
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Thanks for comments..
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Of course if you get any ideas about other routes that could be
      > >>>>>taken
      > >>>>>> >>>>>re: Lichoz^routi and Lichac^e (ex-pairs of socks that have
      > >>>>>become
      > >>>>>> >>>>>halves/only the odd one remains [or is it the even one??], see
      > >>>>>> >>>>>explanation above), I'm all ears...
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Starting with 'uneven' for lichy (isn't that too
      > >>>>>> >>>>>bookish/old-fashioned?).... could we do something like:
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>uneven-eaters
      > >>>>>> >>>>>uneveners
      > >>>>>> >>>>>unevenators
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>???
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Are there other words that could be used (impair????
      > >>>>>> >>>>>impairers/unpairers)???
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>TIAVM for comments and suggestions
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>Matej
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
      > >>>>>> >>>>>
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