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Re: Re: [Cussler-DirkPitt] non-stop season

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  • Ed Homa
    ... i think in the 24/Jack Bauer world both sides can be traitors - as long as you don t agree with everything Pres Logan says no matter how big of a lie it is
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 1, 2006
      >From: michael j norton <colierrannd@...>
      >Date: Tue Jan 31 21:12:25 CST 2006
      >To: Cussler-DirkPitt@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [Cussler-DirkPitt] non-stop season

      >
      >On Jan 31, 2006, at 5:57 PM, Ed Homa wrote:
      >
      >>
      >> hit close to home - huh?
      >>
      >> Ed
      >
      >I have to wonder if the Democrats in that world are traitors too....
      >
      >Oh well, at least in the fake world we have Jack Bauer to fight for us.
      >
      >Col


      i think in the 24/Jack Bauer world both sides can be traitors - as long as you don't agree with everything Pres Logan says no matter how big of a lie it is you are atraitor.

      i think that in the 24/Jack Bauer world the Prez also keeps everything a secret so you can't question him. but one positive about the 24 world is that Darth Vader/Doctor Doom isn't the veep.

      Ed
    • Bill Groves
      Reality is good. Check it out. ... http://home.earthlink.net/~tvman __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo!
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 1, 2006
        Reality is good. Check it out.

        --- Ed Homa <manofbronze@...> wrote:

        > >From: michael j norton <colierrannd@...>
        > >Date: Tue Jan 31 21:12:25 CST 2006
        > >To: Cussler-DirkPitt@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: Re: [Cussler-DirkPitt] non-stop season
        >
        > >
        > >On Jan 31, 2006, at 5:57 PM, Ed Homa wrote:
        > >
        > >>
        > >> hit close to home - huh?
        > >>
        > >> Ed
        > >
        > >I have to wonder if the Democrats in that world are
        > traitors too....
        > >
        > >Oh well, at least in the fake world we have Jack
        > Bauer to fight for us.
        > >
        > >Col
        >
        >
        > i think in the 24/Jack Bauer world both sides can be
        > traitors - as long as you don't agree with
        > everything Pres Logan says no matter how big of a
        > lie it is you are atraitor.
        >
        > i think that in the 24/Jack Bauer world the Prez
        > also keeps everything a secret so you can't
        > question him. but one positive about the 24 world
        > is that Darth Vader/Doctor Doom isn't the veep.
        >
        > Ed
        >


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      • michael j norton
        ... Actually it was interesting that during the airport crisis you didn t see the vice-president. I know his job is supposed to be next to nothing, but I
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 1, 2006
          On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:47 AM, Ed Homa wrote:

          >
          > i think that in the 24/Jack Bauer world the Prez also keeps everything
          > a secret so you can't question him. but one positive about the 24
          > world is that Darth Vader/Doctor Doom isn't the veep.
          >
          > Ed

          Actually it was interesting that during the airport crisis you didn't
          see the vice-president. I know his job is supposed to be next to
          nothing, but I would've thought you'd see him somewhere.

          I love that Bauer is now essentially America's enforcer. It's
          interesting for him not to have anybody to answer to.

          BTW, does anyone else think Connie Britton (can't remember her
          character's name, Linda maybe?) and her son now have huge bullseye
          targets on their backs?

          Col
          "When you can't walk, you crawl, and when you can't do that, you find
          someone to carry you."-"The Message" Serenity.
        • michael j norton
          ... While I get your point Bill, I would not say reality is good. All the unemployment,healthcare problems, the gov t now openly spying on us...people are not
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 1, 2006
            On Feb 1, 2006, at 7:24 AM, Bill Groves wrote:

            > Reality is good. Check it out.
            >

            While I get your point Bill, I would not say reality is good. All the
            unemployment,healthcare problems, the gov't now openly spying on
            us...people are not happy and reality is not good.

            Col
            www.colisgod-like.blogspot.com

            When I despair, I remember that all through history, the way of truth
            and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for
            a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of
            it, always."-Mahatma Gandhi
          • Ed Homa
            ... reality/truth is much stranger and scarier than fiction - huh? Ed
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
              >From: michael j norton <colierrannd@...>
              >Date: Wed Feb 01 09:46:19 CST 2006
              >To: Cussler-DirkPitt@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [Cussler-DirkPitt] non-stop season

              >
              >On Feb 1, 2006, at 7:24 AM, Bill Groves wrote:
              >
              >> Reality is good. Check it out.
              >>
              >
              >While I get your point Bill, I would not say reality is good. All the
              >unemployment,healthcare problems, the gov't now openly spying on
              >us...people are not happy and reality is not good.
              >
              >Col


              reality/truth is much stranger and scarier than fiction - huh?

              Ed
            • Ed Homa
              ... i don t remember the veep from last season - but yes you would of thought during the airport situation you would have seen him - but remember everything is
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
                >From: michael j norton <colierrannd@...>
                >Date: Wed Feb 01 09:44:39 CST 2006
                >To: Cussler-DirkPitt@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [Cussler-DirkPitt] non-stop season

                >
                >On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:47 AM, Ed Homa wrote:
                >
                >>
                >> i think that in the 24/Jack Bauer world the Prez also keeps everything
                >> a secret so you can't question him. but one positive about the 24
                >> world is that Darth Vader/Doctor Doom isn't the veep.
                >>
                >> Ed
                >
                >Actually it was interesting that during the airport crisis you didn't
                >see the vice-president. I know his job is supposed to be next to
                >nothing, but I would've thought you'd see him somewhere.
                >
                >I love that Bauer is now essentially America's enforcer. It's
                >interesting for him not to have anybody to answer to.
                >
                >BTW, does anyone else think Connie Britton (can't remember her
                >character's name, Linda maybe?) and her son now have huge bullseye
                >targets on their backs?
                >
                >Col


                i don't remember the veep from last season - but yes you would of thought during the airport situation you would have seen him - but remember everything is about money - but not showing him they didn't have to pay him.

                i too think that the g/f and her son will be back and will be in danger.

                do you think Rudy/Sean Astin is working with or against CTU?

                Ed
              • michael j norton
                ... Well we do know from the producers that there is one more mole so maybe he is it, but I don t think so. He s too good at the job and seems to be working
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
                  On Feb 2, 2006, at 5:43 AM, Ed Homa wrote:

                  >
                  > do you think Rudy/Sean Astin is working with or against CTU?
                  >
                  > Ed

                  Well we do know from the producers that there is one more mole so maybe
                  he is it, but I don't think so. He's too good at the job and seems to
                  be working with CTU. It'd be great if they called him Rudy LOL.

                  Col
                  But if what you say is true Joe then....I still don't care.-Dave
                  Nelson, NewsRadio
                • Ed Homa
                  ... i haven t heard that there was still another mole - it can t be Spencer - can it? yeah - i wish someone would come out and call him Rudy and tackle him!
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 2, 2006
                    >From: michael j norton <colierrannd@...>
                    >Date: Thu Feb 02 10:23:03 CST 2006
                    >To: Cussler-DirkPitt@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: Re: [Cussler-DirkPitt] non-stop season

                    >
                    >On Feb 2, 2006, at 5:43 AM, Ed Homa wrote:
                    >
                    >>
                    >> do you think Rudy/Sean Astin is working with or against CTU?
                    >>
                    >> Ed
                    >
                    >Well we do know from the producers that there is one more mole so maybe
                    >he is it, but I don't think so. He's too good at the job and seems to
                    >be working with CTU. It'd be great if they called him Rudy LOL.
                    >
                    >Col


                    i haven't heard that there was still another mole - it can't be Spencer - can it?

                    yeah - i wish someone would come out and call him Rudy and tackle him! LOL

                    Ed
                  • Bill Groves
                    Sorry for the delayed response, but I ve just moved and gotten my DSL back up and running. So you re saying that you ve been chatting with Al Qaeda?
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 9, 2006
                      Sorry for the delayed response, but I've just moved and gotten my DSL back up and running.
                       
                      So you're saying that you've been chatting with Al Qaeda?  Otherwise, the program you're referring to that everyone's in such a snit about doesn't apply.  Now if you want to talk actual domestic spying, ever hear of Echelon?
                       
                      Sorry to hear about your unemployment and healthcare problems.  As for the latter, be glad you don't live in Canada.

                      Ed Homa <manofbronze@...> wrote:
                      >From: michael j norton <colierrannd@...>
                      >Date: Wed Feb 01 09:46:19 CST 2006
                      >To: Cussler-DirkPitt@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: Re: [Cussler-DirkPitt] non-stop season

                      >
                      >On Feb 1, 2006, at 7:24 AM, Bill Groves wrote:
                      >
                      >> Reality is good.  Check it out.
                      >>
                      >
                      >While I get your point Bill, I would not say reality is good. All the
                      >unemployment,healthcare problems, the gov't now openly spying on
                      >us...people are not happy and reality is not good.
                      >
                      >Col


                      reality/truth is much stranger and scarier than fiction - huh?

                      Ed



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                    • michael j norton
                      ... Oh? Then please explain how it works like that. Because the only way you could do it is to troll for specific words. Thus anyone saying Man, those people
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 9, 2006
                        On Feb 9, 2006, at 2:28 PM, Bill Groves wrote:

                        >
                        > So you're saying that you've been chatting with Al Qaeda?  Otherwise,
                        > the program you're referring to that everyone's in such a snit about
                        > doesn't apply.  Now if you want to talk actual domestic spying, ever
                        > hear of Echelon?
                        >  

                        Oh? Then please explain how it works like that. Because the only way
                        you could do it is to troll for specific words. Thus anyone saying
                        "Man, those people sure are angry at the US. They say they want to bomb
                        the US" to a friend overseas is gonna get flagged because we can
                        reasonably assume that the words "bomb" and "angry at the US" are
                        entered into the database. But according to a article at NYTimes.com
                        on January 17th 2006,


                        ‘F.B.I. officials repeatedly complained to the spy agency that the
                        unfiltered information was swamping investigators. The spy agency was
                        collecting much of the data by eavesdropping on some Americans’
                        international communications and conducting computer searches of phone
                        and Internet traffic. Some F.B.I. officials and prosecutors also
                        thought the checks, which sometimes involved interviews by agents, were
                        pointless intrusions on Americans’ privacy…

                        ‘…President Bush has characterized the eavesdropping program as a
                        “vital tool” against terrorism; Vice President Dick Cheney has said it
                        has saved “thousands of lives.”…’

                        Another thought: why keep it so hush-hush? It's not like terrorists
                        don't know we're listening.My suspicion is that were one to do real
                        digging (you know, like a journalist) one might eventually find that
                        the calls being snooped on weren't Al-Quaeda but rather John Kerry
                        supporters or Cindy Sheehan. Think I'm crazy? Prove it. Tell the
                        American people who you're spying on on American soil and justify not
                        only violating law but a law that is the most lenient on Presidential
                        power ever. In the over 25 years since FISA was created exactly 5
                        warrants have been denied to any President.The 3 day window isn't
                        enough? the 15 day window in special circumstance isn't enough?

                        Another note from the NYTimes article:

                        …"We’d chase a number, find it’s a schoolteacher with no indication
                        they’ve ever been involved in international terrorism — case closed,”
                        said one former F.B.I. official, who was aware of the program and the
                        data it generated for the bureau. “After you get a thousand numbers and
                        not one is turning up anything, you get some frustration.”…’

                        Gee, if it's only Al-Quaeda they're looking for, how could that happen?
                        Is the NY Times just pulling stuff out of their butts? I don't know,
                        let's go ask John Ashcroft cuz, you know he'll be an impartial witness.

                        Sorry for the rant guys, but frankly, little things like "liberty" and
                        "freedom" and "privacy" actually mean something to me.

                        I won't go any further than this on-list on this topic because it's so
                        far off-topic.

                        Meanwhile, did everyone catch "24" Monday? Wow.

                        Col
                        www.colisgod-like.blogspot.com

                        When I despair, I remember that all through history, the way of truth
                        and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for
                        a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of
                        it, always."-Mahatma Gandhi
                      • Bill Groves
                        Well, to begin with, thanks for the laugh of the day when you almost used the words NY Times and impartial in the same sentence. I hope you understand if
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 9, 2006
                          Well, to begin with, thanks for the laugh of the day when you almost used the words "NY Times" and "impartial" in the same sentence.  I hope you understand if Jason Blair and I treat your question about the paper as a rhetorical one. 
                           
                          Since you're skeptical of the technology, you might be interested to know that, in fact, Echelon was actually designed to troll for specific words and phrases.  Can't hang that one on Bush, I'm afraid.  For that matter, you're at least one administration late to the party to be concerned about spying on and retribution against political opponents.  Nice dodge, challenging me to prove a negative.  However, if you have any evidence that Kerry supporters or Cindy Sheehan have been spied upon (though Sheehan certainly invites it given the various foreign dictators she's been cozying up to lately), please offer it up.  The main thing mitigating against that scenario is that spying is usually for the purpose of gathering intelligence, and it'd be wasted effort.
                           
                          Here's a thought you might want to consider.  Keeping things hush-hush is a good way to get the upper hand on someone who wants to destroy you, so that maybe they don't succeed.  Personally, I don't think the "people's right to know" should extend to terrorists. 
                           
                          Thanks for the FISA stats.  Nice to know that only five warrants were denied.  I'm sure that's a big comfort to the relatives of the 9/11 victims, to know the odds were in their favor, but just didn't pan out that day regarding the warrant against Moussaoui that could have blown open the plot.  Well, at least they all died with their privacy intact.
                           
                          And that's my rant.  Likewise sorry to have intruded on the group with it, but the sniping was getting to me.
                           
                          michael j norton <colierrannd@...> wrote:

                          On Feb 9, 2006, at 2:28 PM, Bill Groves wrote:

                          >
                          > So you're saying that you've been chatting with Al Qaeda?  Otherwise,
                          > the program you're referring to that everyone's in such a snit about
                          > doesn't apply.  Now if you want to talk actual domestic spying, ever
                          > hear of Echelon?
                          >  

                          Oh? Then please explain how it works like that. Because the only way
                          you could do it is to troll for specific words. Thus anyone saying
                          "Man, those people sure are angry at the US. They say they want to bomb
                          the US" to a friend overseas is gonna get flagged because we can
                          reasonably assume that the words "bomb" and "angry at the US" are
                          entered into the database. But according to a article at NYTimes.com
                          on January 17th 2006,


                          ‘F.B.I. officials repeatedly complained to the spy agency that the
                          unfiltered information was swamping investigators. The spy agency was
                          collecting much of the data by eavesdropping on some Americans’
                          international communications and conducting computer searches of phone
                          and Internet traffic. Some F.B.I. officials and prosecutors also
                          thought the checks, which sometimes involved interviews by agents, were
                          pointless intrusions on Americans’ privacy…

                          ‘…President Bush has characterized the eavesdropping program as a
                          “vital tool” against terrorism; Vice President Dick Cheney has said it
                          has saved “thousands of lives.”…’

                          Another thought: why keep it so hush-hush? It's not like terrorists
                          don't know we're listening.My suspicion is that were one to do real
                          digging (you know, like a journalist) one might eventually find that
                          the calls being snooped on weren't Al-Quaeda but rather John Kerry
                          supporters or Cindy Sheehan. Think I'm crazy? Prove it. Tell the
                          American people who you're spying on on American soil and justify not
                          only violating law but a law that is the most lenient on Presidential
                          power ever. In the over 25 years since FISA was created exactly 5
                          warrants have been denied to any President.The 3 day window isn't
                          enough? the 15 day window in special circumstance isn't enough?

                          Another note from the NYTimes article:

                          …"We’d chase a number, find it’s a schoolteacher with no indication
                          they’ve ever been involved in international terrorism — case closed,”
                          said one former F.B.I. official, who was aware of the program and the
                          data it generated for the bureau. “After you get a thousand numbers and
                          not one is turning up anything, you get some frustration.”…’

                          Gee, if it's only Al-Quaeda they're looking for, how could that happen?
                          Is the NY Times just pulling stuff out of their butts? I don't know,
                          let's go ask John Ashcroft cuz, you know he'll be an impartial witness.

                          Sorry for the rant guys, but frankly, little things like "liberty" and
                          "freedom" and "privacy" actually mean something to me.

                          I won't go any further than this on-list on this topic because it's so
                          far off-topic.

                          Meanwhile, did everyone catch "24" Monday? Wow.

                          Col
                          www.colisgod-like.blogspot.com

                          When I despair, I remember that all through history, the way of truth
                          and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for
                          a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of
                          it, always."-Mahatma Gandhi



                          Pitt, Dirk Pitt.
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