Re: ZDDP research completed
- Thanks Mr Kirk.
You have some great info on what we need and why we need this additive.
Reguards, Steve Rains
--- In Crosley@yahoogroups.com, Robert Kirk <kirkbrit@...> wrote:
> The following information is soon to be posted to my web site. I share with you all now. Those of you expressing interest in a ZDDP additive are especially invited to read this missive and get back with me.
> The ZDDP has had me doing some extreme research the past few days sorting old, misguided, and in some cases confounding information. Today I spoke with an oil engineer with a company I have enjoyed dong business in the past. He shared with me interesting facts about ZDDP and mineral vs. synthetic oils. He also referred me to what he called the best paper he had yet read about the subject and I later spoke with the author Michael Grant. Blaine Ballentine tells me that his companyâs research shows the damage occurs almost instantly when the cam and lifter are momentarily welded. It pulls material off the lifter and the rest is short or longer lived failureâ¦thatâs with a new cam and happens in as little as 30 seconds on start up. His racing oil in viscosities of 10-30 and 20-50, and straight weights of 10 20 30 60&70, has 2400 parts per million zinc and 2200 ppm phosphate. BTW, itâs the phosphate which is causing concern about catalytic converters
> not the heavy metal zinc. All his oils are mineral and NOT synthetic. More on that later. His SJ rated oil (street car stuff) has 1600 ppm zinc and 1475 ppm phosphate and comes in 10-30 15-40 straight weights 10 20 30 40 50. He further suggests that its much better to use a complete package rather than trying to modify a package with an additive. In the case of synthetic is may be useless as syn. blends have a more aggressive detergent action which may make the addition virtually useless.
> The advantages of mineral oil in conventional engines is that it creates a better film of ZDDP on the critical cam lobe and tappet surfaces, holds up better under extreme pressures of racing (up to 10,000 psi) and benefits to collectorsâ cars are a superior rust inhibitor for vehicles seeing little use and or long storage periods. Both oil bases cause engine seals to swell but mineral does a better job. If broken in with mineral it is possible a switch to synthetic may cause seal failure. Further, of interest to anyone using Mobile !, Valvoline has published data that the Mobileâs formula doesnât meet its API standard. That information is said to be publishedâ¦lawsuits? I asked Mr. Ballentine for a white paper on these matters and was told Michael Grantâs article was the best heâd read on the ZDDP subject. Ballentine will provide me with more about the synthetic vs. mineral base oils in a couple days.
> Mr. Grants 6 month long study was distilled first in a 25 page document (found on the first link) and later in a two page article found on the second link and quoted in total below.
> BY MICHAEL GRANT
> The Question
> Which oil should I use in my classic car? Itâs incredibly important to ask this question. Why? The reduced level of zinc
> dialkyldithiophosphate (known as ZDDP, ZDP or ZnDTP) in modern motor oil has been linked to increasing numbers of tappet and camshaft failuresin vintage engines.
> What Exactly Is the Problem?
> The cam/tappet failure problems often begin with a freshly rebuilt engine that starts making expensive-sounding noises. Inspection might reveal that the bottom of one or more tappets is gone. Instead of a smooth, machined surface, the face of the tappet will look like the surface of the moon. If the problem is the camshaft, it will exhibit one or more worn lobes.
> Just one failed tappet or cam lobe will create a problem, as the damage results from direct metal-to-metal contact. With metal debris in the sump, here is no choice but to tear down and rebuild the engine. Choosing an assembly lube and motor oil is critical in preventing this metal-to-metal contact. Corrosion, which occurs over time when classics are not driven, is another serious issue. Normal motor oil is designed to lubricate, not to coat or protect metal surfaces from corrosion. All oil absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. Running the engine will eliminate this moisture, but leaving a car to sit for extended periods of time will lead to corrosion. Using an oil product that forms a clinging protective film on the exposed metal parts can minimize this problem. If the oil contains special corrosion inhibitors, all the better. Repair shops specializing in British cars have been dealing with these issues for years, and most have developed a combination
> of parts, machine work, engine prep and lubricants to reduce these problems. Many shops cite assembly lube, oil and the amount of ZDDP in the oil as major concerns.
> What Is ZDDP?
> Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate is an oil supplement that has served as the primary extreme pressure (EP) ingredient in all quality motor oils for the past 70 yearsâ"until recently. What does it do? When exposed to heat and pressure, ZDDP forms a protective film on metal surfaces that prevents parts (cam lobes and tappets, for example) from making metal-to-metal contact.
> Why Do I Suddenly Need ZDDP?
> ZDDP has been phased out because it damages catalytic converters. Small amounts of zinc and phosphorus in the ZDDP coat the catalytic material, reducing the effective life of the converter. The ZDDP level in motor oil was reduced from 0.15 to 0.12 percent (1,500 to 1,200 PPM) in 1993, and further reduced from 0.08 to 0.06 percent (800 to 600 PPM) in API SM-grade oil in 2004. But is this level enough for an older engine, especially when it isnât run frequently? And is it enough to protect the cam and lifters in a freshly rebuilt older engine during the critical break-in period? The experience of hundreds of professional engine rebuilders, cam manufacturers and restorers indicates the mandated ZDDP level is not enough.
> The Engine Builders Association concluded that 75 percent of reported cam/tappet failures were due to the reduction in ZDDP. Association Technical Bulletin 2333R (November 2007) says current engine oils used by engine manufacturers in new car production should not be used for initial flat tappet/camshaft break-in. It recommends adding additional zinc for camshaft and lifter break-in. Most cam manufacturers also have specific instructions regarding assembly lube and break-in oil, citing cam/tappet failures.
> So What Should I Do?
> The following guidelines can help you prevent cam/tappet failure and protect your engine.
> Initial Break-In Period (First 30 minutes)
> Use oil with ZDDP at 0.14 to 0.15 percent by weight (1,400 to 1,500 PPM) to provide the additional protection needed to maximize the chances of a successful cam/tappet break-in.
> First 500 Miles After Initial Break-In
> After that initial 20- to 30-minute break-in period, change the oil and oil filter. The oil you run after break-in will not need as much ZDDP; 0.10 to 0.12 percent ZDDP will provide protection without risking chemical corrosion.
> Second 500 Miles After Initial Break-In
> After the first 500 miles, change the oil and filter again, using oil with the same ZDDP level, 0.10 to 0.12 percent.
> After the First 1,000 Miles (Car Driven Infrequently)
> If you donât drive your car once a week for 30 minutes or more with the oil between 170 and 200 degrees, consider using oil formulated specifically for classic cars. This oil has a mixture of additives designed to deal with the moisture, corrosion and acids in engines that sit for extended periods of time. Change your oil every 3,000 miles or every six months, whichever comes first. If you live in an area with high humidity, change the oil and filter four times a year.
> After the First 1,000 Miles (Car Driven Frequently)
> If you drive your car once a week for 30 minutes or more with the oil between 170 and 200 degrees, you have more options. Driving the car frequently will minimize the amount of acid, water and water vapor in the crankcase, and that will limit the corrosion and subsequent pitting of the cam lobes and lifters. Using 20W-50 API SM oil with 0.08 percent ZDDP can be fine, but if you are more conservative, a ZDDP level of 0.10 to 0.12 percent will provide additional protection. BM
> Robert Kirk