Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Horse Question

Expand Messages
  • Tarrah
    Hello everyone What breed type of horse did the Croatian 17th C use for military, also did they prefer any color for the horse. ladyt
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 8, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello everyone

      What breed type of horse did the Croatian 17th C
      use for military, also did they prefer any color for the horse.

      ladyt
    • Robert Jerin
      Croatia was under the Austro-Hungarian Crown at that time.  Here are some links that may be useful  
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 8, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Croatia was under the Austro-Hungarian Crown at that time.  Here are some links that may be useful
         
        http://www.hanoverian.org/artman2/publish/industrynews/Hungarian_Arabian_Stud_Babolna_Slated_to_Close.shtml
         
        http://www.cvda.org/bulletin.htm
         
        Robert

        --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Tarrah <hussarslady2004@...> wrote:

        From: Tarrah <hussarslady2004@...>
        Subject: [CroatianHistory] Horse Question
        To: CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 2:01 PM






        Hello everyone

        What breed type of horse did the Croatian 17th C
        use for military, also did they prefer any color for the horse.

        ladyt















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Tarrah
        Those are terrific links thank you - In CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jerin ... are some links that may be useful ...
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 9, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Those are terrific links
          thank you


          - In CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jerin <rjerin26@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Croatia was under the Austro-Hungarian Crown at that time.  Here
          are some links that may be useful
          >  
          >
          http://www.hanoverian.org/artman2/publish/industrynews/Hungarian_Arabi
          an_Stud_Babolna_Slated_to_Close.shtml
          >  
          > http://www.cvda.org/bulletin.htm
          >  
          > Robert
          >
          > --- On Mon, 9/8/08, Tarrah <hussarslady2004@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Tarrah <hussarslady2004@...>
          > Subject: [CroatianHistory] Horse Question
          > To: CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Monday, September 8, 2008, 2:01 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello everyone
          >
          > What breed type of horse did the Croatian 17th C
          > use for military, also did they prefer any color for the horse.
          >
          > ladyt
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Suzanne
          Would the world-famous Lipitsa breed come into this question at all? Most reference sources state that the Lipizzaner horses were already a well-known breed
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 9, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Would the "world-famous" Lipitsa breed come into this question at
            all? Most reference sources state that the Lipizzaner horses were
            already a well-known breed in the 17th century... and they're just up
            the road (in Slovenia) from Croatia proper... and Austria was the
            dominant influence in the region at the time anyway...?

            I just don't know enough about what uses these horses were put to in
            the 17th century -- have they always been show horses, or were they
            used by the military as well?

            Inquiring minds want to know!

            Suzanne
          • Robert Jerin
            Lippizaners are and were also raised in Croatia, but I don t believe they would have been for cavarly use   Robert ... From: Suzanne
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 9, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Lippizaners are and were also raised in Croatia, but I don't believe they would have been for cavarly use
               
              Robert

              --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Suzanne <sovagris@...> wrote:

              From: Suzanne <sovagris@...>
              Subject: [CroatianHistory] Re: Horse Question
              To: CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 9:29 PM






              Would the "world-famous" Lipitsa breed come into this question at
              all? Most reference sources state that the Lipizzaner horses were
              already a well-known breed in the 17th century... and they're just up
              the road (in Slovenia) from Croatia proper... and Austria was the
              dominant influence in the region at the time anyway...?

              I just don't know enough about what uses these horses were put to in
              the 17th century -- have they always been show horses, or were they
              used by the military as well?

              Inquiring minds want to know!

              Suzanne














              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tarrah
              Hi Robert So would you say that the breed type you speak of was not used for military during this time frame. This perhaps was from the Iberian Horse the
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 11, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Robert
                So would you say that the breed type you speak of was not used for
                military during this time frame.
                This perhaps was from the Iberian Horse the famous Lippizzaners.
                Tarrah
                -

                -- In CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jerin <rjerin26@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Lippizaners are and were also raised in Croatia, but I don't
                believe they would have been for cavarly use
                >  
                > Robert
                >
                > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Suzanne <sovagris@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: Suzanne <sovagris@...>
                > Subject: [CroatianHistory] Re: Horse Question
                > To: CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 9:29 PM
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Would the "world-famous" Lipitsa breed come into this question at
                > all? Most reference sources state that the Lipizzaner horses were
                > already a well-known breed in the 17th century... and they're just
                up
                > the road (in Slovenia) from Croatia proper... and Austria was the
                > dominant influence in the region at the time anyway...?
                >
                > I just don't know enough about what uses these horses were put to
                in
                > the 17th century -- have they always been show horses, or were they
                > used by the military as well?
                >
                > Inquiring minds want to know!
                >
                > Suzanne
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Rick Orli
                The great majority of the lippizaners s show seems to be either obviously military-based or devolved from a military skill. I don t know but I have always
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 11, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  The great majority of the lippizaners's "show" seems to be either
                  obviously military-based or devolved from a military skill. I don't
                  know but I have always thought of them first as idealized cavalry
                  horses.
                  -Rick
                  --- In CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jerin <rjerin26@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Lippizaners are and were also raised in Croatia, but I don't
                  believe they would have been for cavarly use
                  >  
                  > Robert
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Suzanne <sovagris@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From: Suzanne <sovagris@...>
                  > Subject: [CroatianHistory] Re: Horse Question
                  > To: CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 9:29 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Would the "world-famous" Lipitsa breed come into this question at
                  > all? Most reference sources state that the Lipizzaner horses were
                  > already a well-known breed in the 17th century... and they're just
                  up
                  > the road (in Slovenia) from Croatia proper... and Austria was the
                  > dominant influence in the region at the time anyway...?
                  >
                  > I just don't know enough about what uses these horses were put to
                  in
                  > the 17th century -- have they always been show horses, or were they
                  > used by the military as well?
                  >
                  > Inquiring minds want to know!
                  >
                  > Suzanne
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Tarrah
                  Hi Rick Thank you for speaking up.. My theory and a few others from the SCA equestrian friends have discussed the subject of Spanish horse blood. I will see
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 12, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Rick
                    Thank you for speaking up..

                    My theory and a few others from the SCA equestrian friends have
                    discussed the subject of Spanish horse blood.


                    I will see if i can find it again and post it ..
                    If these breed types were available during the time of the 17th
                    century.

                    We know that the Arabian horse was readily available ,
                    yet when i look at some of the artists work i see some spanish type
                    as well.

                    In your professional opinion do you think there were spanish type
                    horses blood used in battle or even a mix of spanish type horse blood.


                    When i look at the conformation of some horses they have larger
                    bones , cresty necks yet a refined head, as well as some with a roman
                    nose .


                    From what i have come accross, there were some horses imported
                    thru Holland ( spanish type)

                    thanks again

                    ladyt




                    -- In CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Orli" <orlirva@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > The great majority of the lippizaners's "show" seems to be either
                    > obviously military-based or devolved from a military skill. I don't
                    > know but I have always thought of them first as idealized cavalry
                    > horses.
                    > -Rick
                    > --- In CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com, Robert Jerin <rjerin26@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Lippizaners are and were also raised in Croatia, but I don't
                    > believe they would have been for cavarly use
                    > >  
                    > > Robert
                    > >
                    > > --- On Tue, 9/9/08, Suzanne <sovagris@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > From: Suzanne <sovagris@>
                    > > Subject: [CroatianHistory] Re: Horse Question
                    > > To: CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2008, 9:29 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Would the "world-famous" Lipitsa breed come into this question at
                    > > all? Most reference sources state that the Lipizzaner horses were
                    > > already a well-known breed in the 17th century... and they're
                    just
                    > up
                    > > the road (in Slovenia) from Croatia proper... and Austria was the
                    > > dominant influence in the region at the time anyway...?
                    > >
                    > > I just don't know enough about what uses these horses were put to
                    > in
                    > > the 17th century -- have they always been show horses, or were
                    they
                    > > used by the military as well?
                    > >
                    > > Inquiring minds want to know!
                    > >
                    > > Suzanne
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                  • tsnorrason
                    Lipizzan From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A modern Lipizzan The Lipizzan, or Lipizzaner (Slovene Lipicanec), is a breed of horse closely associated with
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 13, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Lipizzan
                      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                      A modern Lipizzan
                      The Lipizzan, or Lipizzaner (Slovene Lipicanec), is a breed of horse
                      closely associated with the Spanish Riding School of Vienna, Austria
                      where the finest representatives demonstrate the haute ecole or "high
                      school" movements of classical dressage, including the highly
                      controlled, stylized jumps and other movements known as the "airs
                      above the ground." The Lipizzan breed dates back to the 16th century,
                      when it was developed with the support of the Habsburg nobility. The
                      breed takes its name from one of the earliest stud farms established,
                      located near the Kras village of Lipica (spelled "Lipizza" in
                      Italian), in modern-day Slovenia.

                      Breed characteristics
                      Most Lipizzans measure between 14.2 and 15.2 hands, with occasional
                      individuals either over or under. They are compact and muscular, with
                      very powerful hindquarters, allowing them to do the difficult "High
                      School" (Dressage) movements, including the "airs above the ground."
                      They generally have a strong-featured head with a convex profile, set
                      high on a well-muscled, arched neck. They have short cannons, their
                      legs have good bone, and well-sloped shoulders. Their gaits are
                      powerful and elastic, although different in style from the Warmblood
                      breeds seen in many Dressage competitions. Lipizzans are naturally
                      balanced, well-known for excellent trainability and intelligence.
                      Lipizzans are slow to mature, usually not being put under saddle until
                      the age of four, and not considered fully mature until the age of
                      seven. However, they also are long-lived horses, often performing well
                      into their mid-20s, and living into their thirties. For example, the
                      stallion Siglavy Mantua I was a featured solo performer with the
                      Spanish Riding School at the age of 26 during its 2005 tour of the
                      United States.

                      Color
                      This young Lipizzan stallion has already begun the graying process.
                      Aside from the rare solid-colored horse (usually bay or black), most
                      Lipizzans are gray. Like all gray horses, they have black skin, dark
                      eyes, and as adult horses, a white hair coat. Gray horses, including
                      Lipizzans, are born dark-usually bay or black-and become lighter each
                      year as the graying process takes place. Other than the rare
                      individual who does not carry the gray gene, Lipizzans usually gray
                      quickly. They usually have a completely white hair coat by the average
                      age of seven, though the range varies from six to ten. Contrary to
                      popular belief, Lipizzans are not actually true white horses. A white
                      horse is born white, has pink skin and usually has blue eyes.
                      Until the 18th century, Lipizzans had other coat colors, including dun
                      and bay. However, gray is a dominant gene, and in a small breed
                      population and also deliberately selected as a desirable feature, it
                      came to be the color of the overwhelming majority of Lipizzan horses.
                      However, today, it is still traditional for the Spanish Riding School
                      to have one bay Lipizzan in residence, showing respect to an old
                      belief that doing so will prevent bad luck.
                      [edit] Training of Lipizzan horses

                      Lipizzans training at the Spanish Riding School.
                      The traditional training methods for Lipizzans were developed at the
                      Spanish Riding School and are based on the principles of classical
                      dressage, a method of training refined during the Baroque period,
                      developed partly for military purposes, partly for exhibitions at
                      European royal households, with techniques specifically adapted to the
                      temperament and conformation of horses of the time, the predecessors
                      of breeds, like the Lipizzan, that we now refer to as "Baroque horses."
                      Young stallions come to the Spanish Riding School when they are four
                      years old and are trained with gentleness and without undue pressure.
                      It takes at least six years for the horse to be fully trained and
                      become a member of the School Quadrille.
                      The fundamentals taught to the Lipizzan stallions at the Spanish
                      Riding School were passed down via an oral tradition until they were
                      written down in 1898 by His Excellency Field Marshall Franz Holbein
                      and Franz Meixner, senior rider at the Spanish Riding School from 1885
                      to 1916. They include:
                      * Riding in as natural a position as possible in non-collected gaits
                      in straight lines, so-called straight riding.
                      * Campagne, or elementary dressage, consists of riding the collected
                      horse through all of the gaits, turns and manoeuvres while maintaining
                      perfect balance.
                      * The haute école, or high school - riding in an upright position with
                      a strong curvature of the haunches (angling of the hindquarters),
                      regularity, skill and finesse in all of the natural gaits, dressage
                      manoeuvres and leaps as adapted from nature. All of the above is to be
                      executed in a methodical manner to the highest degree of perfection.[1]
                      Some say that though the principles have been written down, the
                      fundamental methods for training horses in classical dressage can only
                      be passed down through a one-on-one interaction between instructor and
                      student, as these techniques require substantial amounts of
                      explanation, demonstration, and sensing by the pupils themselves.
                      The Austrian Federal Stud farm at Piber traditionally does not break
                      mares to saddle. Although some other Lipizzan establishments train
                      geldings to the haute ecole, the Spanish Riding School exclusively
                      uses stallions in its performances. [2]

                      The "Airs"
                      The "airs above the ground" are the difficult "high school" dressage
                      movements made famous by the Lipizzans. They include:
                      * The levade: a position wherein the horse raises up both front legs,
                      standing at a 45 degree angle, entirely on its hind legs in a
                      controlled form that requires a great deal of hindquarter strength.
                      * The courbette: a movement where the horse balances on its hind legs
                      before jumping, keeping his forelegs off the ground and his hind legs
                      together as he "hops."
                      * The capriole: a jump in place wherein the stallion leaps into the
                      air, tucking his forelegs under himself, and kicking out with his hind
                      legs at the height of elevation.
                      * The croupade: similar to the capriole, but both fore and hind legs
                      are tucked under the body at the height of elevation.
                      * The mezair: A series of successive levades in which the horse lowers
                      its forefeet to the ground before rising again on hindquarters,
                      achieving forward motion.
                      Usually a Lipizzan horse will not learn more than one "air" during
                      their performing career.[3]
                      Other moves include the piaffe, passage, pirouette, flying changes,
                      extended movements, and other Classical dressage movements.

                      Breed history
                      The ancestors of the Lipizzan can be traced to approximately A.D.
                      800.[4] The predecessors of the Lipizzan included desert horses that
                      were brought into Spain from North Africa and crossed on native
                      Spanish horses, creating breeds such as the Andalusian and other
                      Iberian horses.
                      By the 16th Century, when the Hapsburg Empire ruled both Spain and
                      Austria, a powerful but agile horse was desired for both military uses
                      and for use in the fashionable and rapidly-growing riding schools for
                      the nobility of central Europe. Therefore, in 1562, the Hapsburg
                      Emperor Maximillian II brought the Spanish horse to Austria and
                      founded the court stud at Kladrub. In 1580, his brother, Archduke
                      Charles II, established a similar stud in 1580 at Lipizza (now spelled
                      Lipica), located in modern-day Slovenia), whence the breed obtained
                      its name.
                      Kladrub and Lipizza stock were bred to the native Karst (Kras) horses,
                      and succeeding generations were crossed with the old Neapolitan breed
                      and horses of Spanish descent obtained from Spain, Germany, and
                      Denmark The studs also imported more Spanish horses, as well as
                      Neapolitans from Italy, as the years went on. While breeding stock was
                      exchanged between the two studs, Kladrub specialized in producing
                      heavy carriage horses, while riding and light carriage horses came
                      from the Lipizza stud.[5]
                      In 1735, Charles VI established the Spanish Riding School and recorded
                      the bloodlines of the Lipizzans. He also built a winter riding hall in
                      the imperial palace in Vienna, which is the home of the Spanish Riding
                      School today.
                      The Spanish Riding School, though located in Vienna, Austria, takes
                      its name from the original Spanish heritage of both its horses and its
                      riding techniques.
                      Beginning in 1920, the Piber stud, near Graz, Austria, became the main
                      stud for the horses used in Vienna. Breeding became very selective,
                      only allowing stallions that had proved themselves at the Riding
                      School to stand at stud, and only breeding mares who had passed
                      rigorous performance testing.[6]
                      [edit] Foundation horses
                      Today, all Lipizzans recognized worldwide trace to six foundation
                      stallions. In order foaled, they are:
                      * Pluto: a gray Spanish stallion from the Royal Danish Stud, foaled in
                      1765
                      * Conversano: a black Neopolitan stallion, foaled in 1767
                      * Neapolitano: a bay Neopolitan stallion from Polesina, foaled in 1790
                      * Favory: a dun stallion from the Kladrub stud, foaled in 1779
                      * Siglavy: a gray Arabian stallion, foaled in 1810
                      * Maestoso: a gray (or possibly white) Kladruber stallion, a crossbred
                      of Neapolitan sire and a Spanish dam, foaled at the Hungarian stud of
                      Mezohegyes in 1819
                      There are also 2 other stallion lines which are accepted as equal to
                      the 6 classical lines by LIF (Lipizzan International Federation).
                      These are:
                      * Tulipan (English Tulip): this line started in the Croatian stud farm
                      of Terezovac of Count Jankovic. Horses of this line are of Neapolitan
                      descent, crossed with other Lipizzaners during the 19th century and
                      formed the Tulipan line around 1880.
                      * Incitato: the foundation sire of this Hungarian line was foaled in
                      Mezohegyes in 1802. The Incitato line is derived from Spanish and
                      Italian sources.
                      These two lines are still found in Croatia, Hungary, and other eastern
                      European countries as well as in North America.
                      In addition to the foundation stallions, there are 18 mare family
                      lines in the classical tradition. However, some organizations
                      recognize up to 35 mare lines.[7]
                      In acknowledgement of the importance of bloodline, every stallion has
                      two names, referencing both the sire's lineage and the dam's name.[8]
                      For example, a stallion named Maestoso Austria was sired by Maestoso
                      Saffa, out of the mare named Austria.

                      The Rescue of the Lipizzans
                      World War II presented perhaps the greatest threat ever faced by the
                      Lipizzan breed. The breeding stock was taken by the Nazis from Piber
                      to a German-run stud farm at Hostau, in what today is the Czech
                      Republic. Threatened by bombing raids, the stallions later evacuated
                      Vienna for St. Martin's, in upper Austria. Under the leadership of
                      Alois Podhajsky, then the director of the Spanish Riding School, both
                      the stallions and the equestrian traditions were preserved. However,
                      there were still harsh challenges; while safe from aerial attacks,
                      there was little food for human or animals, and starving refugees
                      sometimes attempted to steal the horses, viewing them as a source of
                      meat.[9]
                      In 1945, the United States Army took control of St. Martins. General
                      George S. Patton, of the 2nd U.S. Cavalry Group, had been a fellow
                      equestrian competitor with Podhajsky in the Olympic Games prior to the
                      war. The two men renewed their acquaintance, and after an impressive
                      performance by the remaining horses and riders of the school in front
                      of Patton and Undersecretary of War Robert Patterson, the Americans
                      agreed to place the stallions under the protection of the United
                      States until they could safely be returned to the people of Austria
                      after the war.
                      When Hostau fell behind Soviet lines, captured German officers, under
                      interrogation by U.S. Army Captain Ferdinand Sperl, reported the
                      Lipizzans' location and asked the Americans to rescue the horses
                      before they fell into Soviet hands, because it was feared they would
                      be slaughtered for horsemeat. Patton issued orders, and on April 28,
                      1945, Colonel Charles H. Reed, Sperl's superior officer, with members
                      of Troops A, C and F of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, conducted a raid
                      behind Soviet lines and accepted the surrender of the Germans at
                      Hostau. Reed later said that the surrender was "more a fiesta than a
                      military operation, as the German troops drew up an honor guard and
                      saluted the American troops as they came in."[9] Although only 250
                      Lipizzans survived the war, the breed was saved.
                      In 2005, the Spanish Riding School celebrated the 60th anniversary of
                      George S. Patton's rescue by touring the United States.

                      The Modern Lipizzan
                      Today, though found in many nations throughout Europe and North
                      America, the breed is relatively rare, with only about 3,000 horses
                      registered worldwide. However, their numbers are increasing. Lipizzans
                      still shine in classical dressage, performing the High School "airs
                      above the ground" with ease. Lipizzan stallions are still the "Dancing
                      White Horses," the only horses used by the Spanish Riding School in
                      Vienna. Both purebred and crossbred Lipizzans make excellent riding
                      and harness horses. While popular for dressage exhibitions and
                      recreational riding in Europe and North America, in some countries
                      (such as Slovenia) stallions are crossed with local mares to make good
                      farm horses in addition to being used for dressage.
                      Because of their fame and their status as the only breed of horse
                      developed in Slovenia, via the Lipizza stud, Lipizzans are considered
                      one of that nation's most beloved national symbols. A pair of
                      Lipizzans is featured on the 20-cent Slovenian euro coins.
                      [edit] Lipizzans in popular culture
                      The motion picture produced by Walt Disney studios, entitled Miracle
                      of the White Stallions (1963) depicted the Spanish Riding School and
                      the rescue of its horses from advancing Soviet forces by General
                      George S. Patton. It starred Eddie Albert, Curt Jürgens, Lilli Palmer,
                      James Franciscus, and Robert Taylor. It was directed by Arthur Hiller.
                      The motion picture Florian (1940) was based on a novel written in 1934
                      by Felix Salten, the author of Bambi (1942). The story is set in the
                      1880s and tells how two young lovers met through their love of horses.
                      The movie was directed by Edwin L. Marin and scripted by Noel Langley
                      and James Kevin McGuinness. Its producer, Winfield Sheehan, owned the
                      only Lipizzan horses in the U.S. at the time.
                      The White Horses was a 1965 television series co-produced by RTS of
                      Yugoslavia and BR-TV of Germany, re-broadcast in the United Kingdom.
                      It followed the adventures of a teenage girl who visits a farm where
                      Lipizzan horses are raised.
                      In the climax of the submarine thriller Crimson Tide, Capt. Frank
                      Ramsey asks Lt. Cmdr. Ron Hunter if he's ever seen Lipizzan stallions,
                      while both are waiting for a critical incoming radio transmission.
                      Ramsey asserts that they are white, from Portugal, and are the "most
                      highly trained horses in the world." Hunter, who rides horses, retorts
                      that they are in fact from Spain and are born black. In the
                      denouement, Ramsey admits his error.
                      In the Nickelodeon cartoon show The Angry Beavers, Norbert's dream is
                      to be a Lipizzan stallion.
                      In the story The Star of Kazan, by Eva Ibbotson, Annika watches the
                      Lipizzan horses perform at the Spanish Riding School.
                      Lipizzans play a crucial role in Mary Stewart's 1965 thriller Airs
                      Above the Ground.
                    • Robert Jerin
                      According to Mato Cacic, Croatia has the largest population of Lipizzaner horses in the world, about 15-16 %. In 2007 Croatia had more than a thousand
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 13, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        According to Mato Cacic, Croatia has the largest population of Lipizzaner horses in the world, about 15-16 %. In 2007 Croatia had more than a thousand Lipizzaners, out of 6000-7000 in the world. Croatia has more than 200 years of tradition of organized breeding of Lipizzaners.
                         
                        In October 1991, the largest Lipizzaner horse-farm in Croatia, situated near the town of Lipik, was bombed with napalm bombs. Out of 117 horses 27 of them were killed, and more than 80 taken away to Serbia, where they are also today. Believe it or not, the Serbs are trying to SELL stolen Croatian Lipizzaners to Croatia! From reliable sources we know that some of them have been already sold in Italy.
                         
                        http://www.croatianhistory.net/etf/lipizz.html
                         
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnoRdMzaDAk
                         
                        Robert


                        --- On Sat, 9/13/08, tsnorrason <t.snorrason@...> wrote:

                        From: tsnorrason <t.snorrason@...>
                        Subject: [CroatianHistory] Re: Horse Question
                        To: CroatianHistory@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 11:36 AM






                        Lipizzan
                        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        A modern Lipizzan
                        The Lipizzan, or Lipizzaner (Slovene Lipicanec), is a breed of horse
                        closely associated with the Spanish Riding School of Vienna, Austria
                        where the finest representatives demonstrate the haute ecole or "high
                        school" movements of classical dressage, including the highly
                        controlled, stylized jumps and other movements known as the "airs
                        above the ground." The Lipizzan breed dates back to the 16th century,
                        when it was developed with the support of the Habsburg nobility. The
                        breed takes its name from one of the earliest stud farms established,
                        located near the Kras village of Lipica (spelled "Lipizza" in
                        Italian), in modern-day Slovenia.

                        Breed characteristics
                        Most Lipizzans measure between 14.2 and 15.2 hands, with occasional
                        individuals either over or under. They are compact and muscular, with
                        very powerful hindquarters, allowing them to do the difficult "High
                        School" (Dressage) movements, including the "airs above the ground."
                        They generally have a strong-featured head with a convex profile, set
                        high on a well-muscled, arched neck. They have short cannons, their
                        legs have good bone, and well-sloped shoulders. Their gaits are
                        powerful and elastic, although different in style from the Warmblood
                        breeds seen in many Dressage competitions. Lipizzans are naturally
                        balanced, well-known for excellent trainability and intelligence.
                        Lipizzans are slow to mature, usually not being put under saddle until
                        the age of four, and not considered fully mature until the age of
                        seven. However, they also are long-lived horses, often performing well
                        into their mid-20s, and living into their thirties. For example, the
                        stallion Siglavy Mantua I was a featured solo performer with the
                        Spanish Riding School at the age of 26 during its 2005 tour of the
                        United States.

                        Color
                        This young Lipizzan stallion has already begun the graying process.
                        Aside from the rare solid-colored horse (usually bay or black), most
                        Lipizzans are gray. Like all gray horses, they have black skin, dark
                        eyes, and as adult horses, a white hair coat. Gray horses, including
                        Lipizzans, are born dark-usually bay or black-and become lighter each
                        year as the graying process takes place. Other than the rare
                        individual who does not carry the gray gene, Lipizzans usually gray
                        quickly. They usually have a completely white hair coat by the average
                        age of seven, though the range varies from six to ten. Contrary to
                        popular belief, Lipizzans are not actually true white horses. A white
                        horse is born white, has pink skin and usually has blue eyes.
                        Until the 18th century, Lipizzans had other coat colors, including dun
                        and bay. However, gray is a dominant gene, and in a small breed
                        population and also deliberately selected as a desirable feature, it
                        came to be the color of the overwhelming majority of Lipizzan horses.
                        However, today, it is still traditional for the Spanish Riding School
                        to have one bay Lipizzan in residence, showing respect to an old
                        belief that doing so will prevent bad luck.
                        [edit] Training of Lipizzan horses

                        Lipizzans training at the Spanish Riding School.
                        The traditional training methods for Lipizzans were developed at the
                        Spanish Riding School and are based on the principles of classical
                        dressage, a method of training refined during the Baroque period,
                        developed partly for military purposes, partly for exhibitions at
                        European royal households, with techniques specifically adapted to the
                        temperament and conformation of horses of the time, the predecessors
                        of breeds, like the Lipizzan, that we now refer to as "Baroque horses."
                        Young stallions come to the Spanish Riding School when they are four
                        years old and are trained with gentleness and without undue pressure.
                        It takes at least six years for the horse to be fully trained and
                        become a member of the School Quadrille.
                        The fundamentals taught to the Lipizzan stallions at the Spanish
                        Riding School were passed down via an oral tradition until they were
                        written down in 1898 by His Excellency Field Marshall Franz Holbein
                        and Franz Meixner, senior rider at the Spanish Riding School from 1885
                        to 1916. They include:
                        * Riding in as natural a position as possible in non-collected gaits
                        in straight lines, so-called straight riding.
                        * Campagne, or elementary dressage, consists of riding the collected
                        horse through all of the gaits, turns and manoeuvres while maintaining
                        perfect balance.
                        * The haute école, or high school - riding in an upright position with
                        a strong curvature of the haunches (angling of the hindquarters) ,
                        regularity, skill and finesse in all of the natural gaits, dressage
                        manoeuvres and leaps as adapted from nature. All of the above is to be
                        executed in a methodical manner to the highest degree of perfection.[ 1]
                        Some say that though the principles have been written down, the
                        fundamental methods for training horses in classical dressage can only
                        be passed down through a one-on-one interaction between instructor and
                        student, as these techniques require substantial amounts of
                        explanation, demonstration, and sensing by the pupils themselves.
                        The Austrian Federal Stud farm at Piber traditionally does not break
                        mares to saddle. Although some other Lipizzan establishments train
                        geldings to the haute ecole, the Spanish Riding School exclusively
                        uses stallions in its performances. [2]

                        The "Airs"
                        The "airs above the ground" are the difficult "high school" dressage
                        movements made famous by the Lipizzans. They include:
                        * The levade: a position wherein the horse raises up both front legs,
                        standing at a 45 degree angle, entirely on its hind legs in a
                        controlled form that requires a great deal of hindquarter strength.
                        * The courbette: a movement where the horse balances on its hind legs
                        before jumping, keeping his forelegs off the ground and his hind legs
                        together as he "hops."
                        * The capriole: a jump in place wherein the stallion leaps into the
                        air, tucking his forelegs under himself, and kicking out with his hind
                        legs at the height of elevation.
                        * The croupade: similar to the capriole, but both fore and hind legs
                        are tucked under the body at the height of elevation.
                        * The mezair: A series of successive levades in which the horse lowers
                        its forefeet to the ground before rising again on hindquarters,
                        achieving forward motion.
                        Usually a Lipizzan horse will not learn more than one "air" during
                        their performing career.[3]
                        Other moves include the piaffe, passage, pirouette, flying changes,
                        extended movements, and other Classical dressage movements.

                        Breed history
                        The ancestors of the Lipizzan can be traced to approximately A.D.
                        800.[4] The predecessors of the Lipizzan included desert horses that
                        were brought into Spain from North Africa and crossed on native
                        Spanish horses, creating breeds such as the Andalusian and other
                        Iberian horses.
                        By the 16th Century, when the Hapsburg Empire ruled both Spain and
                        Austria, a powerful but agile horse was desired for both military uses
                        and for use in the fashionable and rapidly-growing riding schools for
                        the nobility of central Europe. Therefore, in 1562, the Hapsburg
                        Emperor Maximillian II brought the Spanish horse to Austria and
                        founded the court stud at Kladrub. In 1580, his brother, Archduke
                        Charles II, established a similar stud in 1580 at Lipizza (now spelled
                        Lipica), located in modern-day Slovenia), whence the breed obtained
                        its name.
                        Kladrub and Lipizza stock were bred to the native Karst (Kras) horses,
                        and succeeding generations were crossed with the old Neapolitan breed
                        and horses of Spanish descent obtained from Spain, Germany, and
                        Denmark The studs also imported more Spanish horses, as well as
                        Neapolitans from Italy, as the years went on. While breeding stock was
                        exchanged between the two studs, Kladrub specialized in producing
                        heavy carriage horses, while riding and light carriage horses came
                        from the Lipizza stud.[5]
                        In 1735, Charles VI established the Spanish Riding School and recorded
                        the bloodlines of the Lipizzans. He also built a winter riding hall in
                        the imperial palace in Vienna, which is the home of the Spanish Riding
                        School today.
                        The Spanish Riding School, though located in Vienna, Austria, takes
                        its name from the original Spanish heritage of both its horses and its
                        riding techniques.
                        Beginning in 1920, the Piber stud, near Graz, Austria, became the main
                        stud for the horses used in Vienna. Breeding became very selective,
                        only allowing stallions that had proved themselves at the Riding
                        School to stand at stud, and only breeding mares who had passed
                        rigorous performance testing.[6]
                        [edit] Foundation horses
                        Today, all Lipizzans recognized worldwide trace to six foundation
                        stallions. In order foaled, they are:
                        * Pluto: a gray Spanish stallion from the Royal Danish Stud, foaled in
                        1765
                        * Conversano: a black Neopolitan stallion, foaled in 1767
                        * Neapolitano: a bay Neopolitan stallion from Polesina, foaled in 1790
                        * Favory: a dun stallion from the Kladrub stud, foaled in 1779
                        * Siglavy: a gray Arabian stallion, foaled in 1810
                        * Maestoso: a gray (or possibly white) Kladruber stallion, a crossbred
                        of Neapolitan sire and a Spanish dam, foaled at the Hungarian stud of
                        Mezohegyes in 1819
                        There are also 2 other stallion lines which are accepted as equal to
                        the 6 classical lines by LIF (Lipizzan International Federation).
                        These are:
                        * Tulipan (English Tulip): this line started in the Croatian stud farm
                        of Terezovac of Count Jankovic. Horses of this line are of Neapolitan
                        descent, crossed with other Lipizzaners during the 19th century and
                        formed the Tulipan line around 1880.
                        * Incitato: the foundation sire of this Hungarian line was foaled in
                        Mezohegyes in 1802. The Incitato line is derived from Spanish and
                        Italian sources.
                        These two lines are still found in Croatia, Hungary, and other eastern
                        European countries as well as in North America.
                        In addition to the foundation stallions, there are 18 mare family
                        lines in the classical tradition. However, some organizations
                        recognize up to 35 mare lines.[7]
                        In acknowledgement of the importance of bloodline, every stallion has
                        two names, referencing both the sire's lineage and the dam's name.[8]
                        For example, a stallion named Maestoso Austria was sired by Maestoso
                        Saffa, out of the mare named Austria.

                        The Rescue of the Lipizzans
                        World War II presented perhaps the greatest threat ever faced by the
                        Lipizzan breed. The breeding stock was taken by the Nazis from Piber
                        to a German-run stud farm at Hostau, in what today is the Czech
                        Republic. Threatened by bombing raids, the stallions later evacuated
                        Vienna for St. Martin's, in upper Austria. Under the leadership of
                        Alois Podhajsky, then the director of the Spanish Riding School, both
                        the stallions and the equestrian traditions were preserved. However,
                        there were still harsh challenges; while safe from aerial attacks,
                        there was little food for human or animals, and starving refugees
                        sometimes attempted to steal the horses, viewing them as a source of
                        meat.[9]
                        In 1945, the United States Army took control of St. Martins. General
                        George S. Patton, of the 2nd U.S. Cavalry Group, had been a fellow
                        equestrian competitor with Podhajsky in the Olympic Games prior to the
                        war. The two men renewed their acquaintance, and after an impressive
                        performance by the remaining horses and riders of the school in front
                        of Patton and Undersecretary of War Robert Patterson, the Americans
                        agreed to place the stallions under the protection of the United
                        States until they could safely be returned to the people of Austria
                        after the war.
                        When Hostau fell behind Soviet lines, captured German officers, under
                        interrogation by U.S. Army Captain Ferdinand Sperl, reported the
                        Lipizzans' location and asked the Americans to rescue the horses
                        before they fell into Soviet hands, because it was feared they would
                        be slaughtered for horsemeat. Patton issued orders, and on April 28,
                        1945, Colonel Charles H. Reed, Sperl's superior officer, with members
                        of Troops A, C and F of the 2nd Cavalry Regiment, conducted a raid
                        behind Soviet lines and accepted the surrender of the Germans at
                        Hostau. Reed later said that the surrender was "more a fiesta than a
                        military operation, as the German troops drew up an honor guard and
                        saluted the American troops as they came in."[9] Although only 250
                        Lipizzans survived the war, the breed was saved.
                        In 2005, the Spanish Riding School celebrated the 60th anniversary of
                        George S. Patton's rescue by touring the United States.

                        The Modern Lipizzan
                        Today, though found in many nations throughout Europe and North
                        America, the breed is relatively rare, with only about 3,000 horses
                        registered worldwide. However, their numbers are increasing. Lipizzans
                        still shine in classical dressage, performing the High School "airs
                        above the ground" with ease. Lipizzan stallions are still the "Dancing
                        White Horses," the only horses used by the Spanish Riding School in
                        Vienna. Both purebred and crossbred Lipizzans make excellent riding
                        and harness horses. While popular for dressage exhibitions and
                        recreational riding in Europe and North America, in some countries
                        (such as Slovenia) stallions are crossed with local mares to make good
                        farm horses in addition to being used for dressage.
                        Because of their fame and their status as the only breed of horse
                        developed in Slovenia, via the Lipizza stud, Lipizzans are considered
                        one of that nation's most beloved national symbols. A pair of
                        Lipizzans is featured on the 20-cent Slovenian euro coins.
                        [edit] Lipizzans in popular culture
                        The motion picture produced by Walt Disney studios, entitled Miracle
                        of the White Stallions (1963) depicted the Spanish Riding School and
                        the rescue of its horses from advancing Soviet forces by General
                        George S. Patton. It starred Eddie Albert, Curt Jürgens, Lilli Palmer,
                        James Franciscus, and Robert Taylor. It was directed by Arthur Hiller.
                        The motion picture Florian (1940) was based on a novel written in 1934
                        by Felix Salten, the author of Bambi (1942). The story is set in the
                        1880s and tells how two young lovers met through their love of horses.
                        The movie was directed by Edwin L. Marin and scripted by Noel Langley
                        and James Kevin McGuinness. Its producer, Winfield Sheehan, owned the
                        only Lipizzan horses in the U.S. at the time.
                        The White Horses was a 1965 television series co-produced by RTS of
                        Yugoslavia and BR-TV of Germany, re-broadcast in the United Kingdom.
                        It followed the adventures of a teenage girl who visits a farm where
                        Lipizzan horses are raised.
                        In the climax of the submarine thriller Crimson Tide, Capt. Frank
                        Ramsey asks Lt. Cmdr. Ron Hunter if he's ever seen Lipizzan stallions,
                        while both are waiting for a critical incoming radio transmission.
                        Ramsey asserts that they are white, from Portugal, and are the "most
                        highly trained horses in the world." Hunter, who rides horses, retorts
                        that they are in fact from Spain and are born black. In the
                        denouement, Ramsey admits his error.
                        In the Nickelodeon cartoon show The Angry Beavers, Norbert's dream is
                        to be a Lipizzan stallion.
                        In the story The Star of Kazan, by Eva Ibbotson, Annika watches the
                        Lipizzan horses perform at the Spanish Riding School.
                        Lipizzans play a crucial role in Mary Stewart's 1965 thriller Airs
                        Above the Ground.















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.