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Cri Cri engins and feultanks

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  • ciar45
    Dear members, Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them? And what would be the prise of the
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 6, 2012
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      Dear members,

      Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them?

      And what would be the prise of the fueltank?


      Thanks a lot.

      Best regards,

      Ciar van Holstein
    • Christian von Delius
      Ciar- Engines will run from $1,200usd (Chinese) to $3,500 (3W-German) with ZDZ s and DA s around $2,000usd each. Fuel tanks are currently something you will
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 6, 2012
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        Ciar-
        Engines will run from $1,200usd (Chinese) to $3,500 (3W-German) with ZDZ's and DA's around $2,000usd each.
        Fuel tanks are currently something you will have to build until a mold is offered by one of the builders.
        The CriCri is a plans built aircraft; there are not kits or pre-made parts in general, so you will have to build it all,
        at this time.
        -Christian

        --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
        Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                 -a division of-
        www.AlpineWorldwide.com
               "We build ideas.."


        On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, ciar45 <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
         

        Dear members,

        Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them?

        And what would be the prise of the fueltank?

        Thanks a lot.

        Best regards,

        Ciar van Holstein


      • Ciar Sekander van Holstein
        Christian, Thank you very much for you r information. Do you know a site or a link where I can order the engins please? and are this engins ready to install or
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 7, 2012
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          Christian,

          Thank you very much for you'r information.

          Do you know a site or a link where I can order the engins please? and are this engins ready to install or do I hve to do some modivication by myself?

          Best regards,

          Ciar van Holstein




          To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
          From: alpineglobalprivate@...
          Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 00:58:55 -0700
          Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks

           

          Ciar-
          Engines will run from $1,200usd (Chinese) to $3,500 (3W-German) with ZDZ's and DA's around $2,000usd each.
          Fuel tanks are currently something you will have to build until a mold is offered by one of the builders.
          The CriCri is a plans built aircraft; there are not kits or pre-made parts in general, so you will have to build it all,
          at this time.
          -Christian

          --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
          Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                   -a division of-
          www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                 "We build ideas.."


          On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, ciar45 <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
           
          Dear members,

          Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them?

          And what would be the prise of the fueltank?

          Thanks a lot.

          Best regards,

          Ciar van Holstein




        • Christian von Delius
          Ciar- Do you have an aircraft to put them on? The mounts will need to be modified from the original JPX engine mounts. You can use Google to locate engine
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 7, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Ciar-
            Do you have an aircraft to put them on?
            The mounts will need to be modified from the original JPX engine mounts.
            You can use Google to locate engine vendors.
            Unless you have some aeronautical experience, you should not be doing this sort of modification
            without some expert advice. I would suggest not purchasing engines until you have a plane to put
            them on, because in the time it takes to build (five years min.), the engines will have improved
            significantly. You cannot just put engines on a CRICRI without doing some engineering and study.
            Do you have aeronautical engineering experience??
            Your questions seem to indicate you have not done any research.
            You can search the group's posts for more information.
            -Christian

            --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
            Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                     -a division of-
            www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                   "We build ideas.."


            On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 4:29 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
             

            Christian,

            Thank you very much for you'r information.

            Do you know a site or a link where I can order the engins please? and are this engins ready to install or do I hve to do some modivication by myself?

            Best regards,

            Ciar van Holstein




            To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
            From: alpineglobalprivate@...
            Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 00:58:55 -0700
            Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks


             

            Ciar-
            Engines will run from $1,200usd (Chinese) to $3,500 (3W-German) with ZDZ's and DA's around $2,000usd each.
            Fuel tanks are currently something you will have to build until a mold is offered by one of the builders.
            The CriCri is a plans built aircraft; there are not kits or pre-made parts in general, so you will have to build it all,
            at this time.
            -Christian

            --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
            Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                     -a division of-
            www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                   "We build ideas.."


            On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, ciar45 <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
             
            Dear members,

            Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them?

            And what would be the prise of the fueltank?

            Thanks a lot.

            Best regards,

            Ciar van Holstein





          • Joel Ventura
            Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to be talking about buying engines for a CriCri. Deciding on an engine is a major
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 7, 2012
            • 0 Attachment
              Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
              be talking about buying engines for a CriCri. Deciding on an engine is
              a major decision, and a major commitment. The first CriCri flew on 12
              HP Valmet engines, and was underpowered. When those were no longer
              available, the designer switched to JPX Pul 160 engines, and that's what
              you will find in the plans and that is what most CriCri's that are now
              flying use. But that engine is no longer available in the form the
              designer had in mind. The original engine weighed 15 lbs, produced 15
              HP, and cost about $1800. The version available today weighs about 24
              lbs, produces 14 HP, and probably costs around $2800. It has a speed
              reduction unit on it that you would want to remove, and you may be able
              to return it to its original configuration, but you will be paying for a
              lot of hardware you are not using. The old JPX engines occasionally
              come up on the used engine market on eBay or other sources. I once just
              missed a good engine for $100, but that was a rare find.

              So you will probably have to use a different engine. Here is a partial
              list of engines that have been used, or have been suggested. I am sure
              others could add to this list, and some would want to delete entries
              from the list:

              Valmet
              JPX Pul 160
              Solo
              ZDZ
              3W
              Desert Aircraft DA170
              Yamaha motorcycle
              Roton Wankle

              As I said, the JPX is 15 HP, and 15 lbs, so you would like an engine
              that weights no more than 15 lbs and produces no less than 15 HP. A
              little more would be better so you are sure you can maintain flight on
              one engine if there is a failure (depending on your weight). A number
              of people are now using model airplane engines, like the 3W or the DA
              170. These engines have a couple of advantages. First they weigh less
              than half of what the JPX weighs, but they produce much more
              horsepower, in the range of 19 to 24 HP. Another big advantage is all
              these engines are two cylinder opposed configuration, which produce far
              less vibration than the single cylinder JPX. A big disadvantage of
              these engines is that, since they were designed for model airplanes,
              they do not have alternators or generators, and use battery total loss
              ignition systems. There are commercial, alternators that you can
              retrofit to these engines, but they cost almost as much as the engines
              themselves. But at least one builder, modified the alternator from a
              motorcycle and successfully attached it to one of his engines. There is
              a good description of this modification on the web.

              One builder modified Yamaha motorcycle engines for his CriCri. I think
              he had a total of about $800 invested in both engines. I uploaded
              pictures of this airplane to the files section of this list several
              years ago. I don't know if the airplane ever flew.

              There are a number of Wankel engines that look very interesting. They
              have the lowest vibration, and the highest power to weight ratios.
              However, they are very expensive, and I know of none that are flying, so
              you have to do all the engineering. For all the other engines I
              mentioned, this work has probably been done at least once, and you could
              contact one of these builders for the information. All of the usable
              Wankel's I know of also use total loss ignition systems.

              But I feel that your first step should be to do more homework on these
              engines, so you have a good basis from which to make a decision. Look at
              the files section of this list. There is some information on engines
              there. And also be sure to read the article 7 CriCri Basics, also in the
              file section. He has a lot of good advice on selecting an engine. And
              unlike me, this article was written by an experienced CriCri pilot, so
              he should know what he is talking about.

              Happy studying, and Good luck – Joel
            • Christian von Delius
              And Ciar- Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history. Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 7, 2012
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                And Ciar-
                Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history.
                Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are designed for MODEL AIRCRAFT,
                not man carrying aircraft,
                so a due amount of discretion is advised when/if contacting engine vendors.
                Please do not tell them you intend to use the engine in a MAN CARRYING aircraft.
                They may refuse to talk with you and/or refuse to sell you an engine and more importantly, it may
                set a precedent for those of us others who would like to purchase one of these engines for use in our
                CriCri's. Companies are very concerned about liability and lawsuits, so it is important for us
                to limit their concerns, by investigating engines for our 'MODEL AIRCRAFT'.
                I hope you understand this.
                -Christian

                --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                         -a division of-
                www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                       "We build ideas.."


                On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Joel Ventura <ventura@...> wrote:
                Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine is
                a major decision, and a major commitment.
              • Ciar Sekander van Holstein
                Thanks Christian, For sure I won t tell them that I am going to use this engins in man carrying aircraft. You know the situation is like this: I just finished
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
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                  Thanks Christian,

                  For sure I won't tell them that I am going to use this engins in man carrying aircraft.

                  You know the situation is like this:

                  I just finished my helicopter pilot studies and I got a job as a pilot by an operator who is working for United Nations all over the world.
                  and this company like's to invest, so I told them my idea about the Cri Cri and that if we make cri cri in kits we would for sure make some money.

                  So now they made me project leader, we have here all the tools to make cri cri. I all ready called Mr Colomban and told hem about my plans and he is going to send me all the information about the plans.

                  It is kind of my dream to make Cri Cri more avelable for everybody. 
                  my boss want to invest in this so we can make cri cri in kits and also we want to make a wibe shope where everybody can order cri cri in kit or in parts.

                  So what do you think about this plan?

                  I am by myself also an aeronautical engineer and we have here at our company  avionics engineers with more than 30 years work knowledege and also we have metal workers and all the tools, because we allready make here helicopters mission ready for Africa.

                  This is why I was asking all this questions, because at the end of next week I have to have the information how much cost to build an cri cri.
                  And also for how I can Sell a cri cri.

                  Do you know for how much a good working and well designed cri cri could be sold?

                  Thanks for your information again Christian


                  To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                  From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                  Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:13:57 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection

                   

                  And Ciar-
                  Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history.
                  Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are designed for MODEL AIRCRAFT,
                  not man carrying aircraft,
                  so a due amount of discretion is advised when/if contacting engine vendors.
                  Please do not tell them you intend to use the engine in a MAN CARRYING aircraft.
                  They may refuse to talk with you and/or refuse to sell you an engine and more importantly, it may
                  set a precedent for those of us others who would like to purchase one of these engines for use in our
                  CriCri's. Companies are very concerned about liability and lawsuits, so it is important for us
                  to limit their concerns, by investigating engines for our 'MODEL AIRCRAFT'.
                  I hope you understand this.
                  -Christian

                  --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                  Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                           -a division of-
                  www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                         "We build ideas.."


                  On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Joel Ventura <ventura@...> wrote:
                  Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                  be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine is
                  a major decision, and a major commitment.

                • Ciar Sekander van Holstein
                  Hi Joel, Thanks a lot for all this informations, it is really helpfull. As you said I am at the moment searching everywhere for information about cri cri and
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Joel,

                    Thanks a lot for all this informations, it is really helpfull.

                    As you said I am at the moment searching everywhere for information about cri cri and reading a lot about it.

                    Joel do you know how much a cri cri cost to buy if one was for sell, which was well build and airworthy? 

                    I am at the moment searching for how much cost to build a cri cri.
                    we have all the tools and knowledege that is needed to build and aircraft.

                    We are planning to build one in 3 months with 5 men. ( engineers, avionics engineers, metal workers)

                    Do you think there is a busnisse in cri cri. to sell kits or cri cri parts?

                    I am allready in contact with Mr Colomban about this and he is really helpfull.

                    Thanks Joel 

                    > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: ventura@...
                    > Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 23:32:05 -0500
                    > Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection
                    >
                    > Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                    > be talking about buying engines for a CriCri. Deciding on an engine is
                    > a major decision, and a major commitment. The first CriCri flew on 12
                    > HP Valmet engines, and was underpowered. When those were no longer
                    > available, the designer switched to JPX Pul 160 engines, and that's what
                    > you will find in the plans and that is what most CriCri's that are now
                    > flying use. But that engine is no longer available in the form the
                    > designer had in mind. The original engine weighed 15 lbs, produced 15
                    > HP, and cost about $1800. The version available today weighs about 24
                    > lbs, produces 14 HP, and probably costs around $2800. It has a speed
                    > reduction unit on it that you would want to remove, and you may be able
                    > to return it to its original configuration, but you will be paying for a
                    > lot of hardware you are not using. The old JPX engines occasionally
                    > come up on the used engine market on eBay or other sources. I once just
                    > missed a good engine for $100, but that was a rare find.
                    >
                    > So you will probably have to use a different engine. Here is a partial
                    > list of engines that have been used, or have been suggested. I am sure
                    > others could add to this list, and some would want to delete entries
                    > from the list:
                    >
                    > Valmet
                    > JPX Pul 160
                    > Solo
                    > ZDZ
                    > 3W
                    > Desert Aircraft DA170
                    > Yamaha motorcycle
                    > Roton Wankle
                    >
                    > As I said, the JPX is 15 HP, and 15 lbs, so you would like an engine
                    > that weights no more than 15 lbs and produces no less than 15 HP. A
                    > little more would be better so you are sure you can maintain flight on
                    > one engine if there is a failure (depending on your weight). A number
                    > of people are now using model airplane engines, like the 3W or the DA
                    > 170. These engines have a couple of advantages. First they weigh less
                    > than half of what the JPX weighs, but they produce much more
                    > horsepower, in the range of 19 to 24 HP. Another big advantage is all
                    > these engines are two cylinder opposed configuration, which produce far
                    > less vibration than the single cylinder JPX. A big disadvantage of
                    > these engines is that, since they were designed for model airplanes,
                    > they do not have alternators or generators, and use battery total loss
                    > ignition systems. There are commercial, alternators that you can
                    > retrofit to these engines, but they cost almost as much as the engines
                    > themselves. But at least one builder, modified the alternator from a
                    > motorcycle and successfully attached it to one of his engines. There is
                    > a good description of this modification on the web.
                    >
                    > One builder modified Yamaha motorcycle engines for his CriCri. I think
                    > he had a total of about $800 invested in both engines. I uploaded
                    > pictures of this airplane to the files section of this list several
                    > years ago. I don't know if the airplane ever flew.
                    >
                    > There are a number of Wankel engines that look very interesting. They
                    > have the lowest vibration, and the highest power to weight ratios.
                    > However, they are very expensive, and I know of none that are flying, so
                    > you have to do all the engineering. For all the other engines I
                    > mentioned, this work has probably been done at least once, and you could
                    > contact one of these builders for the information. All of the usable
                    > Wankel's I know of also use total loss ignition systems.
                    >
                    > But I feel that your first step should be to do more homework on these
                    > engines, so you have a good basis from which to make a decision. Look at
                    > the files section of this list. There is some information on engines
                    > there. And also be sure to read the article 7 CriCri Basics, also in the
                    > file section. He has a lot of good advice on selecting an engine. And
                    > unlike me, this article was written by an experienced CriCri pilot, so
                    > he should know what he is talking about.
                    >
                    > Happy studying, and Good luck – Joel
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CriCri/
                    >
                    > <*> Your email settings:
                    > Individual Email | Traditional
                    >
                    > <*> To change settings online go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CriCri/join
                    > (Yahoo! ID required)
                    >
                    > <*> To change settings via email:
                    > CriCri-digest@yahoogroups.com
                    > CriCri-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > CriCri-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                  • Gerald Nagel
                    stop
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      stop 


                      On 07 Dec 2012, at 7:31 PM, Christian von Delius wrote:


                      Ciar-
                      Do you have an aircraft to put them on?
                      The mounts will need to be modified from the original JPX engine mounts.
                      You can use Google to locate engine vendors.
                      Unless you have some aeronautical experience, you should not be doing this sort of modification
                      without some expert advice. I would suggest not purchasing engines until you have a plane to put
                      them on, because in the time it takes to build (five years min.), the engines will have improved
                      significantly. You cannot just put engines on a CRICRI without doing some engineering and study.
                      Do you have aeronautical engineering experience??
                      Your questions seem to indicate you have not done any research.
                      You can search the group's posts for more information.
                      -Christian

                      --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                      Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                               -a division of-
                      www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                             "We build ideas.."


                      On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 4:29 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                       

                      Christian,

                      Thank you very much for you'r information.

                      Do you know a site or a link where I can order the engins please? and are this engins ready to install or do I hve to do some modivication by myself?

                      Best regards,

                      Ciar van Holstein




                      To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                      From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                      Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 00:58:55 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks


                       

                      Ciar-
                      Engines will run from $1,200usd (Chinese) to $3,500 (3W-German) with ZDZ's and DA's around $2,000usd each.
                      Fuel tanks are currently something you will have to build until a mold is offered by one of the builders.
                      The CriCri is a plans built aircraft; there are not kits or pre-made parts in general, so you will have to build it all,
                      at this time.
                      -Christian

                      --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                      Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                               -a division of-
                      www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                             "We build ideas.."


                      On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 10:41 AM, ciar45 <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                       
                      Dear members,

                      Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them?

                      And what would be the prise of the fueltank?

                      Thanks a lot.

                      Best regards,

                      Ciar van Holstein









                    • Gerald Nagel
                      stop
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
                      • 0 Attachment
                        stop

                        On 08 Dec 2012, at 6:32 AM, Joel Ventura wrote:

                        > Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet
                        > to
                        > be talking about buying engines for a CriCri. Deciding on an engine
                        > is
                        > a major decision, and a major commitment. The first CriCri flew on 12
                        > HP Valmet engines, and was underpowered. When those were no longer
                        > available, the designer switched to JPX Pul 160 engines, and that's
                        > what
                        > you will find in the plans and that is what most CriCri's that are now
                        > flying use. But that engine is no longer available in the form the
                        > designer had in mind. The original engine weighed 15 lbs, produced 15
                        > HP, and cost about $1800. The version available today weighs about 24
                        > lbs, produces 14 HP, and probably costs around $2800. It has a speed
                        > reduction unit on it that you would want to remove, and you may be
                        > able
                        > to return it to its original configuration, but you will be paying
                        > for a
                        > lot of hardware you are not using. The old JPX engines occasionally
                        > come up on the used engine market on eBay or other sources. I once
                        > just
                        > missed a good engine for $100, but that was a rare find.
                        >
                        > So you will probably have to use a different engine. Here is a
                        > partial
                        > list of engines that have been used, or have been suggested. I am
                        > sure
                        > others could add to this list, and some would want to delete entries
                        > from the list:
                        >
                        > Valmet
                        > JPX Pul 160
                        > Solo
                        > ZDZ
                        > 3W
                        > Desert Aircraft DA170
                        > Yamaha motorcycle
                        > Roton Wankle
                        >
                        > As I said, the JPX is 15 HP, and 15 lbs, so you would like an engine
                        > that weights no more than 15 lbs and produces no less than 15 HP. A
                        > little more would be better so you are sure you can maintain flight on
                        > one engine if there is a failure (depending on your weight). A number
                        > of people are now using model airplane engines, like the 3W or the DA
                        > 170. These engines have a couple of advantages. First they weigh less
                        > than half of what the JPX weighs, but they produce much more
                        > horsepower, in the range of 19 to 24 HP. Another big advantage is
                        > all
                        > these engines are two cylinder opposed configuration, which produce
                        > far
                        > less vibration than the single cylinder JPX. A big disadvantage of
                        > these engines is that, since they were designed for model airplanes,
                        > they do not have alternators or generators, and use battery total loss
                        > ignition systems. There are commercial, alternators that you can
                        > retrofit to these engines, but they cost almost as much as the engines
                        > themselves. But at least one builder, modified the alternator from a
                        > motorcycle and successfully attached it to one of his engines. There
                        > is
                        > a good description of this modification on the web.
                        >
                        > One builder modified Yamaha motorcycle engines for his CriCri. I
                        > think
                        > he had a total of about $800 invested in both engines. I uploaded
                        > pictures of this airplane to the files section of this list several
                        > years ago. I don't know if the airplane ever flew.
                        >
                        > There are a number of Wankel engines that look very interesting. They
                        > have the lowest vibration, and the highest power to weight ratios.
                        > However, they are very expensive, and I know of none that are
                        > flying, so
                        > you have to do all the engineering. For all the other engines I
                        > mentioned, this work has probably been done at least once, and you
                        > could
                        > contact one of these builders for the information. All of the usable
                        > Wankel's I know of also use total loss ignition systems.
                        >
                        > But I feel that your first step should be to do more homework on these
                        > engines, so you have a good basis from which to make a decision.
                        > Look at
                        > the files section of this list. There is some information on engines
                        > there. And also be sure to read the article 7 CriCri Basics, also in
                        > the
                        > file section. He has a lot of good advice on selecting an engine. And
                        > unlike me, this article was written by an experienced CriCri pilot, so
                        > he should know what he is talking about.
                        >
                        > Happy studying, and Good luck – Joel
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Ciar Sekander van Holstein
                        Dear Nagel, what do you mean by stop? Best regards, Ciar van Holstein Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear Nagel,

                          what do you mean by stop?

                          Best regards,

                          Ciar van Holstein


                          Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

                          Op 9 dec. 2012 om 07:30 heeft "Gerald Nagel" <genaco@...> het volgende geschreven:

                          > stop
                          >
                          > On 08 Dec 2012, at 6:32 AM, Joel Ventura wrote:
                          >
                          >> Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet
                          >> to
                          >> be talking about buying engines for a CriCri. Deciding on an engine
                          >> is
                          >> a major decision, and a major commitment. The first CriCri flew on 12
                          >> HP Valmet engines, and was underpowered. When those were no longer
                          >> available, the designer switched to JPX Pul 160 engines, and that's
                          >> what
                          >> you will find in the plans and that is what most CriCri's that are now
                          >> flying use. But that engine is no longer available in the form the
                          >> designer had in mind. The original engine weighed 15 lbs, produced 15
                          >> HP, and cost about $1800. The version available today weighs about 24
                          >> lbs, produces 14 HP, and probably costs around $2800. It has a speed
                          >> reduction unit on it that you would want to remove, and you may be
                          >> able
                          >> to return it to its original configuration, but you will be paying
                          >> for a
                          >> lot of hardware you are not using. The old JPX engines occasionally
                          >> come up on the used engine market on eBay or other sources. I once
                          >> just
                          >> missed a good engine for $100, but that was a rare find.
                          >>
                          >> So you will probably have to use a different engine. Here is a
                          >> partial
                          >> list of engines that have been used, or have been suggested. I am
                          >> sure
                          >> others could add to this list, and some would want to delete entries
                          >> from the list:
                          >>
                          >> Valmet
                          >> JPX Pul 160
                          >> Solo
                          >> ZDZ
                          >> 3W
                          >> Desert Aircraft DA170
                          >> Yamaha motorcycle
                          >> Roton Wankle
                          >>
                          >> As I said, the JPX is 15 HP, and 15 lbs, so you would like an engine
                          >> that weights no more than 15 lbs and produces no less than 15 HP. A
                          >> little more would be better so you are sure you can maintain flight on
                          >> one engine if there is a failure (depending on your weight). A number
                          >> of people are now using model airplane engines, like the 3W or the DA
                          >> 170. These engines have a couple of advantages. First they weigh less
                          >> than half of what the JPX weighs, but they produce much more
                          >> horsepower, in the range of 19 to 24 HP. Another big advantage is
                          >> all
                          >> these engines are two cylinder opposed configuration, which produce
                          >> far
                          >> less vibration than the single cylinder JPX. A big disadvantage of
                          >> these engines is that, since they were designed for model airplanes,
                          >> they do not have alternators or generators, and use battery total loss
                          >> ignition systems. There are commercial, alternators that you can
                          >> retrofit to these engines, but they cost almost as much as the engines
                          >> themselves. But at least one builder, modified the alternator from a
                          >> motorcycle and successfully attached it to one of his engines. There
                          >> is
                          >> a good description of this modification on the web.
                          >>
                          >> One builder modified Yamaha motorcycle engines for his CriCri. I
                          >> think
                          >> he had a total of about $800 invested in both engines. I uploaded
                          >> pictures of this airplane to the files section of this list several
                          >> years ago. I don't know if the airplane ever flew.
                          >>
                          >> There are a number of Wankel engines that look very interesting. They
                          >> have the lowest vibration, and the highest power to weight ratios.
                          >> However, they are very expensive, and I know of none that are
                          >> flying, so
                          >> you have to do all the engineering. For all the other engines I
                          >> mentioned, this work has probably been done at least once, and you
                          >> could
                          >> contact one of these builders for the information. All of the usable
                          >> Wankel's I know of also use total loss ignition systems.
                          >>
                          >> But I feel that your first step should be to do more homework on these
                          >> engines, so you have a good basis from which to make a decision.
                          >> Look at
                          >> the files section of this list. There is some information on engines
                          >> there. And also be sure to read the article 7 CriCri Basics, also in
                          >> the
                          >> file section. He has a lot of good advice on selecting an engine. And
                          >> unlike me, this article was written by an experienced CriCri pilot, so
                          >> he should know what he is talking about.
                          >>
                          >> Happy studying, and Good luck – Joel
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> ------------------------------------
                          >>
                          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >>
                          >>
                          >>
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Christian von Delius
                          Ciar- It is a similar plan to what I have. But I am only one person. I do not have a team of engineers, but I am an aeronautical engineer. Mass producing parts
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ciar-
                            It is a similar plan to what I have.
                            But I am only one person. I do not have a team of engineers, but I am
                            an aeronautical engineer. Mass producing parts for the CriCri will be a large undertaking.
                            There are over 2500 individual parts and nearly 1000 fabricated parts.
                            And the empty weight must be 174 pounds, with engines.
                            To preserve the integrity of the design, you must build the aircraft EXACTLY to the plans.
                            Previously, an American company did modifications, with fatal results!
                            And that is why Mr. Colomban will not support North America.
                            If you decide to act in the fashion of a manufacturer, you must in good conscience
                            build with the original design intent of Mr. Colomban.
                            People's lives will depend on it.
                            Originally the questions you were asking seemed like that of someone with little knowledge
                            of things aeronautic, and hence my apprehension.
                            A CriCri that is built by hand commands from $15,000 to $25,000 in my experience.
                            If it were professionally fabricated, perhaps more.
                            But then there is the question of pilot certification and proficiency; I would hope no inexperienced
                            pilots would purchase it or attempt to fly it without the demonstrated training and experience.
                            The last thing I or any fan of the CriCri would want to see is unqualified people attempting to fly it,
                            and/or further accidents or deaths, bringing on a bad name for this safe aircraft.
                            I also have much flying experience as a helicopter pilot, a fixed wing instrument pilot, a hang glider and ultralight pilot.
                            I have seen many with big dreams, but little wisdom, so I am cautious in supporting any new enterprise, especially
                            with the delicate history of the CriCri.
                            -Christian
                             
                            --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                            Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                     -a division of-
                            www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                   "We build ideas.."


                            On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                             

                            Thanks Christian,

                            For sure I won't tell them that I am going to use this engins in man carrying aircraft.

                            You know the situation is like this:

                            I just finished my helicopter pilot studies and I got a job as a pilot by an operator who is working for United Nations all over the world.
                            and this company like's to invest, so I told them my idea about the Cri Cri and that if we make cri cri in kits we would for sure make some money.

                            So now they made me project leader, we have here all the tools to make cri cri. I all ready called Mr Colomban and told hem about my plans and he is going to send me all the information about the plans.

                            It is kind of my dream to make Cri Cri more avelable for everybody. 
                            my boss want to invest in this so we can make cri cri in kits and also we want to make a wibe shope where everybody can order cri cri in kit or in parts.

                            So what do you think about this plan?

                            I am by myself also an aeronautical engineer and we have here at our company  avionics engineers with more than 30 years work knowledege and also we have metal workers and all the tools, because we allready make here helicopters mission ready for Africa.

                            This is why I was asking all this questions, because at the end of next week I have to have the information how much cost to build an cri cri.
                            And also for how I can Sell a cri cri.

                            Do you know for how much a good working and well designed cri cri could be sold?

                            Thanks for your information again Christian


                            To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                            From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                            Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:13:57 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection


                             

                            And Ciar-
                            Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history.
                            Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are designed for MODEL AIRCRAFT,
                            not man carrying aircraft,
                            so a due amount of discretion is advised when/if contacting engine vendors.
                            Please do not tell them you intend to use the engine in a MAN CARRYING aircraft.
                            They may refuse to talk with you and/or refuse to sell you an engine and more importantly, it may
                            set a precedent for those of us others who would like to purchase one of these engines for use in our
                            CriCri's. Companies are very concerned about liability and lawsuits, so it is important for us
                            to limit their concerns, by investigating engines for our 'MODEL AIRCRAFT'.
                            I hope you understand this.
                            -Christian

                            --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                            Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                     -a division of-
                            www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                   "We build ideas.."


                            On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Joel Ventura <ventura@...> wrote:
                            Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                            be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine is
                            a major decision, and a major commitment.


                          • Ciar Sekander van Holstein
                            Christian, That is exactly my plan to build the cri cri according the plans of Mr Colomban. We are not going to put anything new in the design. Only we have to
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Christian,

                              That is exactly my plan to build the cri cri according the plans of Mr Colomban.
                              We are not going to put anything new in the design.
                              Only we have to expriment with the engins but with this also we first ask advice of mr Colomban.

                              As you said we are going to everything to keep Cri Cris name as good as it is and of course, when we build and finished one we will let it test by a professional cri cri pilot with a lot of flying experience.

                              But Christian we make sure that from start till the end of the building process everything go's according the plans of Mr Colomban.
                              And also we are going to invest to find a good solutions for the engine problems for cri cri.
                              We have good amount of money to invest to make sure that everything is as save as possible.

                              And Cristian in Which country do you stay.
                              If you want meaby you can join our team. We have all the tools, machines and man power to build cri cri as save and efficiënt as possible. As you know there is a big question for buying cri cri.
                              And if you join as meaby we than can offer also flying training for cri cri, because we have our own runway and the license for flying school.

                              So if you are a fan of cri cri and want to make cri cri avelable for more people than let me talk with my boss and it would be a good busnisse. You and me can be the project leader and we have a team of 5 engineers. We have avianice engineer with he's workshop at our base, we have metal worker and all kind workers with good experience in revitings  and fastner experience.

                              So let me know, and thanks for you'r concern about the savety of cri cri.

                              Ciar

                              Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

                              Op 9 dec. 2012 om 09:12 heeft "Christian von Delius" <alpineglobalprivate@...> het volgende geschreven:

                               

                              Ciar-
                              It is a similar plan to what I have.
                              But I am only one person. I do not have a team of engineers, but I am
                              an aeronautical engineer. Mass producing parts for the CriCri will be a large undertaking.
                              There are over 2500 individual parts and nearly 1000 fabricated parts.
                              And the empty weight must be 174 pounds, with engines.
                              To preserve the integrity of the design, you must build the aircraft EXACTLY to the plans.
                              Previously, an American company did modifications, with fatal results!
                              And that is why Mr. Colomban will not support North America.
                              If you decide to act in the fashion of a manufacturer, you must in good conscience
                              build with the original design intent of Mr. Colomban.
                              People's lives will depend on it.
                              Originally the questions you were asking seemed like that of someone with little knowledge
                              of things aeronautic, and hence my apprehension.
                              A CriCri that is built by hand commands from $15,000 to $25,000 in my experience.
                              If it were professionally fabricated, perhaps more.
                              But then there is the question of pilot certification and proficiency; I would hope no inexperienced
                              pilots would purchase it or attempt to fly it without the demonstrated training and experience.
                              The last thing I or any fan of the CriCri would want to see is unqualified people attempting to fly it,
                              and/or further accidents or deaths, bringing on a bad name for this safe aircraft.
                              I also have much flying experience as a helicopter pilot, a fixed wing instrument pilot, a hang glider and ultralight pilot.
                              I have seen many with big dreams, but little wisdom, so I am cautious in supporting any new enterprise, especially
                              with the delicate history of the CriCri.
                              -Christian
                               
                              --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                              Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                       -a division of-
                              www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                     "We build ideas.."


                              On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                               

                              Thanks Christian,

                              For sure I won't tell them that I am going to use this engins in man carrying aircraft.

                              You know the situation is like this:

                              I just finished my helicopter pilot studies and I got a job as a pilot by an operator who is working for United Nations all over the world.
                              and this company like's to invest, so I told them my idea about the Cri Cri and that if we make cri cri in kits we would for sure make some money.

                              So now they made me project leader, we have here all the tools to make cri cri. I all ready called Mr Colomban and told hem about my plans and he is going to send me all the information about the plans.

                              It is kind of my dream to make Cri Cri more avelable for everybody. 
                              my boss want to invest in this so we can make cri cri in kits and also we want to make a wibe shope where everybody can order cri cri in kit or in parts.

                              So what do you think about this plan?

                              I am by myself also an aeronautical engineer and we have here at our company  avionics engineers with more than 30 years work knowledege and also we have metal workers and all the tools, because we allready make here helicopters mission ready for Africa.

                              This is why I was asking all this questions, because at the end of next week I have to have the information how much cost to build an cri cri.
                              And also for how I can Sell a cri cri.

                              Do you know for how much a good working and well designed cri cri could be sold?

                              Thanks for your information again Christian


                              To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                              From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                              Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:13:57 -0700
                              Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection


                               

                              And Ciar-
                              Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history.
                              Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are designed for MODEL AIRCRAFT,
                              not man carrying aircraft,
                              so a due amount of discretion is advised when/if contacting engine vendors.
                              Please do not tell them you intend to use the engine in a MAN CARRYING aircraft.
                              They may refuse to talk with you and/or refuse to sell you an engine and more importantly, it may
                              set a precedent for those of us others who would like to purchase one of these engines for use in our
                              CriCri's. Companies are very concerned about liability and lawsuits, so it is important for us
                              to limit their concerns, by investigating engines for our 'MODEL AIRCRAFT'.
                              I hope you understand this.
                              -Christian

                              --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                              Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                       -a division of-
                              www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                     "We build ideas.."


                              On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Joel Ventura <ventura@...> wrote:
                              Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                              be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine is
                              a major decision, and a major commitment.


                            • Christian von Delius
                              Ciar- It gives me good satisfaction to hear that you respect the original design. I have been a fan of the CriCri for several years and have done much research
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 8, 2012
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Ciar-
                                It gives me good satisfaction to hear that you respect the original design.
                                I have been a fan of the CriCri for several years and have done much research
                                and evaluation. I am located in Kalispell, Montana, USA.
                                I think pursueing the fabrication with the process that Van's RV aircraft uses would
                                be a good approach. I have commitments at this time, so except for short times I cannot leave.
                                I think to CNC all the aluminum parts would be a huge savings of time, including the rivet holes,
                                but they would need to be done with great precision and predictablity to avoid problems.
                                There seems to be much interest in the CriCri and if kits were offered I think it would allow the
                                average builder to simplify their build experience.
                                -Christian von Delius
                                --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                         -a division of-
                                www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                       "We build ideas.."



                                On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Christian,

                                That is exactly my plan to build the cri cri according the plans of Mr Colomban.
                                We are not going to put anything new in the design.
                                Only we have to expriment with the engins but with this also we first ask advice of mr Colomban.

                                As you said we are going to everything to keep Cri Cris name as good as it is and of course, when we build and finished one we will let it test by a professional cri cri pilot with a lot of flying experience.

                                But Christian we make sure that from start till the end of the building process everything go's according the plans of Mr Colomban.
                                And also we are going to invest to find a good solutions for the engine problems for cri cri.
                                We have good amount of money to invest to make sure that everything is as save as possible.

                                And Cristian in Which country do you stay.
                                If you want meaby you can join our team. We have all the tools, machines and man power to build cri cri as save and efficiënt as possible. As you know there is a big question for buying cri cri.
                                And if you join as meaby we than can offer also flying training for cri cri, because we have our own runway and the license for flying school.

                                So if you are a fan of cri cri and want to make cri cri avelable for more people than let me talk with my boss and it would be a good busnisse. You and me can be the project leader and we have a team of 5 engineers. We have avianice engineer with he's workshop at our base, we have metal worker and all kind workers with good experience in revitings  and fastner experience.

                                So let me know, and thanks for you'r concern about the savety of cri cri.

                                Ciar

                                Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

                                Op 9 dec. 2012 om 09:12 heeft "Christian von Delius" <alpineglobalprivate@...> het volgende geschreven:

                                 

                                Ciar-
                                It is a similar plan to what I have.
                                But I am only one person. I do not have a team of engineers, but I am
                                an aeronautical engineer. Mass producing parts for the CriCri will be a large undertaking.
                                There are over 2500 individual parts and nearly 1000 fabricated parts.
                                And the empty weight must be 174 pounds, with engines.
                                To preserve the integrity of the design, you must build the aircraft EXACTLY to the plans.
                                Previously, an American company did modifications, with fatal results!
                                And that is why Mr. Colomban will not support North America.
                                If you decide to act in the fashion of a manufacturer, you must in good conscience
                                build with the original design intent of Mr. Colomban.
                                People's lives will depend on it.
                                Originally the questions you were asking seemed like that of someone with little knowledge
                                of things aeronautic, and hence my apprehension.
                                A CriCri that is built by hand commands from $15,000 to $25,000 in my experience.
                                If it were professionally fabricated, perhaps more.
                                But then there is the question of pilot certification and proficiency; I would hope no inexperienced
                                pilots would purchase it or attempt to fly it without the demonstrated training and experience.
                                The last thing I or any fan of the CriCri would want to see is unqualified people attempting to fly it,
                                and/or further accidents or deaths, bringing on a bad name for this safe aircraft.
                                I also have much flying experience as a helicopter pilot, a fixed wing instrument pilot, a hang glider and ultralight pilot.
                                I have seen many with big dreams, but little wisdom, so I am cautious in supporting any new enterprise, especially
                                with the delicate history of the CriCri.
                                -Christian
                                 
                                --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                         -a division of-
                                www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                       "We build ideas.."


                                On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Thanks Christian,

                                For sure I won't tell them that I am going to use this engins in man carrying aircraft.

                                You know the situation is like this:

                                I just finished my helicopter pilot studies and I got a job as a pilot by an operator who is working for United Nations all over the world.
                                and this company like's to invest, so I told them my idea about the Cri Cri and that if we make cri cri in kits we would for sure make some money.

                                So now they made me project leader, we have here all the tools to make cri cri. I all ready called Mr Colomban and told hem about my plans and he is going to send me all the information about the plans.

                                It is kind of my dream to make Cri Cri more avelable for everybody. 
                                my boss want to invest in this so we can make cri cri in kits and also we want to make a wibe shope where everybody can order cri cri in kit or in parts.

                                So what do you think about this plan?

                                I am by myself also an aeronautical engineer and we have here at our company  avionics engineers with more than 30 years work knowledege and also we have metal workers and all the tools, because we allready make here helicopters mission ready for Africa.

                                This is why I was asking all this questions, because at the end of next week I have to have the information how much cost to build an cri cri.
                                And also for how I can Sell a cri cri.

                                Do you know for how much a good working and well designed cri cri could be sold?

                                Thanks for your information again Christian


                                To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                                Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:13:57 -0700
                                Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection


                                 

                                And Ciar-
                                Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history.
                                Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are designed for MODEL AIRCRAFT,
                                not man carrying aircraft,
                                so a due amount of discretion is advised when/if contacting engine vendors.
                                Please do not tell them you intend to use the engine in a MAN CARRYING aircraft.
                                They may refuse to talk with you and/or refuse to sell you an engine and more importantly, it may
                                set a precedent for those of us others who would like to purchase one of these engines for use in our
                                CriCri's. Companies are very concerned about liability and lawsuits, so it is important for us
                                to limit their concerns, by investigating engines for our 'MODEL AIRCRAFT'.
                                I hope you understand this.
                                -Christian

                                --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                         -a division of-
                                www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                       "We build ideas.."


                                On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Joel Ventura <ventura@...> wrote:
                                Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                                be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine is
                                a major decision, and a major commitment.



                              • Christian von Delius
                                Gerald- Please go to the bottom of the emails you receive and you will find: Reply to that link and you will be unsubscribed. -Christian CRICRI Group Moderator
                                Message 15 of 18 , Dec 9, 2012
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Gerald-
                                  Please go to the bottom of the emails you receive and you will find:
                                   
                                  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                  CriCri-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                   Reply to that link and you will be unsubscribed.
                                  -Christian
                                  CRICRI Group Moderator
                                  --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                  Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                           -a division of-
                                  www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                         "We build ideas.."



                                  On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Gerald Nagel <genaco@...> wrote:
                                  Hi, 

                                  Stop.....no more emails to my mailbox please.

                                  No longer have interest in the cri cri.

                                  Will advise yahoo as I think emails are sent automaticaly.

                                  Gerald


                                  On 09 Dec 2012, at 8:59 AM, Christian von Delius wrote:

                                  Gerald-
                                  What does this mean?
                                  -Christian

                                  --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                  Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                           -a division of-
                                  www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                         "We build ideas.."


                                  On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Gerald Nagel <genaco@...> wrote:
                                  stop

                                  On 08 Dec 2012, at 6:32 AM, Joel Ventura wrote:

                                  > Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet
                                  > to
                                  > be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine
                                  > is
                                  > a major decision, and a major commitment.  The first CriCri flew on 12
                                  > HP Valmet engines, and was underpowered.  When those were no longer
                                  > available, the designer switched to JPX Pul 160 engines, and that's
                                  > what
                                  > you will find in the plans and that is what most CriCri's that are now
                                  > flying use.  But that engine is no longer available in the form the
                                  > designer had in mind.  The original engine weighed 15 lbs, produced 15
                                  > HP, and cost about $1800.  The version available today weighs about 24
                                  > lbs, produces 14 HP, and probably costs around $2800.  It has a speed
                                  > reduction unit on it that you would want to remove, and you may be
                                  > able
                                  > to return it to its original configuration, but you will be paying
                                  > for a
                                  > lot of hardware you are not using.  The old JPX engines occasionally
                                  > come up on the used engine market on eBay or other sources.  I once
                                  > just
                                  > missed a good engine for $100, but that was a rare find.
                                  >
                                  > So you will probably have to use a different engine.  Here is a
                                  > partial
                                  > list of engines that have been used, or have been suggested.  I am
                                  > sure
                                  > others could add to this list, and some would want to delete entries
                                  > from the list:
                                  >
                                  > Valmet
                                  > JPX Pul 160
                                  > Solo
                                  > ZDZ
                                  > 3W
                                  > Desert Aircraft DA170
                                  > Yamaha motorcycle
                                  > Roton Wankle
                                  >
                                  > As I said, the  JPX is 15 HP, and 15 lbs, so you would like an engine
                                  > that weights no more than 15 lbs and produces no less than 15 HP.  A
                                  > little more would be better so you are sure you can maintain flight on
                                  > one engine if there is a failure (depending on your weight).  A number
                                  > of people are now using model airplane engines, like the 3W or the DA
                                  > 170.  These engines have a couple of advantages. First they weigh less
                                  > than half of what the JPX weighs, but they produce much more
                                  > horsepower,  in the range of 19 to 24 HP.  Another big advantage is
                                  > all
                                  > these engines are two cylinder opposed configuration, which produce
                                  > far
                                  > less vibration than the single cylinder JPX.  A big disadvantage of
                                  > these engines is that, since they were designed for model airplanes,
                                  > they do not have alternators or generators, and use battery total loss
                                  > ignition systems.  There are commercial, alternators that you can
                                  > retrofit to these engines, but they cost almost as much as the engines
                                  > themselves. But at least one builder, modified the alternator from a
                                  > motorcycle and successfully attached it to one of his engines. There
                                  > is
                                  > a good description of this modification on the web.
                                  >
                                  > One builder modified Yamaha motorcycle engines for his CriCri.  I
                                  > think
                                  > he had a total of about $800 invested in both engines. I uploaded
                                  > pictures of this airplane to the files section of this list several
                                  > years ago. I don't know if the airplane ever flew.
                                  >
                                  > There are a number of Wankel engines that look very interesting. They
                                  > have the lowest vibration, and the highest power to weight ratios.
                                  > However, they are very expensive, and I know of none that are
                                  > flying, so
                                  > you have to do all the engineering. For all the other engines I
                                  > mentioned, this work has probably been done at least once, and you
                                  > could
                                  > contact one of these builders for the information. All of the usable
                                  > Wankel's I know of also use total loss ignition systems.
                                  >
                                  > But I feel that your first step should be to do more homework on these
                                  > engines, so you have a good basis from which to make a decision.
                                  > Look at
                                  > the files section of this list.  There is some information on engines
                                  > there. And also be sure to read the article 7 CriCri Basics, also in
                                  > the
                                  > file section. He has a lot of good advice on selecting an engine.  And
                                  > unlike me, this article was written by an experienced CriCri pilot, so
                                  > he should know what he is talking about.
                                  >
                                  > Happy studying, and Good luck – Joel
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >



                                  ------------------------------------

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                                • Ciar Sekander van Holstein
                                  Christian,About the method of building the parts we are going to do a research. We want to find out which method is the most effecient and precisely to produce
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Dec 9, 2012
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Christian,
                                    About the method of building the parts we are going to do a research. We want to find out which method is the most effecient and precisely to produce the parts.

                                    It would have been great if you could join us, but meaby in the future you can come for a few weeks to train some pilots in the cri cri.

                                    I will keep you informed about our progress and when we have resolved the engine problems I will send you than all the details.

                                    Thanks for all the informations!

                                    Best regards,

                                    Ciar


                                    To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                                    Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:47:20 -0700
                                    Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection

                                     

                                    Ciar-
                                    It gives me good satisfaction to hear that you respect the original design.
                                    I have been a fan of the CriCri for several years and have done much research
                                    and evaluation. I am located in Kalispell, Montana, USA.
                                    I think pursueing the fabrication with the process that Van's RV aircraft uses would
                                    be a good approach. I have commitments at this time, so except for short times I cannot leave.
                                    I think to CNC all the aluminum parts would be a huge savings of time, including the rivet holes,
                                    but they would need to be done with great precision and predictablity to avoid problems.
                                    There seems to be much interest in the CriCri and if kits were offered I think it would allow the
                                    average builder to simplify their build experience.
                                    -Christian von Delius
                                    --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                    Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                             -a division of-
                                    www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                           "We build ideas.."



                                    On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Christian,

                                    That is exactly my plan to build the cri cri according the plans of Mr Colomban.
                                    We are not going to put anything new in the design.
                                    Only we have to expriment with the engins but with this also we first ask advice of mr Colomban.

                                    As you said we are going to everything to keep Cri Cris name as good as it is and of course, when we build and finished one we will let it test by a professional cri cri pilot with a lot of flying experience.

                                    But Christian we make sure that from start till the end of the building process everything go's according the plans of Mr Colomban.
                                    And also we are going to invest to find a good solutions for the engine problems for cri cri.
                                    We have good amount of money to invest to make sure that everything is as save as possible.

                                    And Cristian in Which country do you stay.
                                    If you want meaby you can join our team. We have all the tools, machines and man power to build cri cri as save and efficiënt as possible. As you know there is a big question for buying cri cri.
                                    And if you join as meaby we than can offer also flying training for cri cri, because we have our own runway and the license for flying school.

                                    So if you are a fan of cri cri and want to make cri cri avelable for more people than let me talk with my boss and it would be a good busnisse. You and me can be the project leader and we have a team of 5 engineers. We have avianice engineer with he's workshop at our base, we have metal worker and all kind workers with good experience in revitings  and fastner experience.

                                    So let me know, and thanks for you'r concern about the savety of cri cri.

                                    Ciar

                                    Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad

                                    Op 9 dec. 2012 om 09:12 heeft "Christian von Delius" <alpineglobalprivate@...> het volgende geschreven:

                                     

                                    Ciar-
                                    It is a similar plan to what I have.
                                    But I am only one person. I do not have a team of engineers, but I am
                                    an aeronautical engineer. Mass producing parts for the CriCri will be a large undertaking.
                                    There are over 2500 individual parts and nearly 1000 fabricated parts.
                                    And the empty weight must be 174 pounds, with engines.
                                    To preserve the integrity of the design, you must build the aircraft EXACTLY to the plans.
                                    Previously, an American company did modifications, with fatal results!
                                    And that is why Mr. Colomban will not support North America.
                                    If you decide to act in the fashion of a manufacturer, you must in good conscience
                                    build with the original design intent of Mr. Colomban.
                                    People's lives will depend on it.
                                    Originally the questions you were asking seemed like that of someone with little knowledge
                                    of things aeronautic, and hence my apprehension.
                                    A CriCri that is built by hand commands from $15,000 to $25,000 in my experience.
                                    If it were professionally fabricated, perhaps more.
                                    But then there is the question of pilot certification and proficiency; I would hope no inexperienced
                                    pilots would purchase it or attempt to fly it without the demonstrated training and experience.
                                    The last thing I or any fan of the CriCri would want to see is unqualified people attempting to fly it,
                                    and/or further accidents or deaths, bringing on a bad name for this safe aircraft.
                                    I also have much flying experience as a helicopter pilot, a fixed wing instrument pilot, a hang glider and ultralight pilot.
                                    I have seen many with big dreams, but little wisdom, so I am cautious in supporting any new enterprise, especially
                                    with the delicate history of the CriCri.
                                    -Christian
                                     
                                    --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                    Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                             -a division of-
                                    www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                           "We build ideas.."


                                    On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Thanks Christian,

                                    For sure I won't tell them that I am going to use this engins in man carrying aircraft.

                                    You know the situation is like this:

                                    I just finished my helicopter pilot studies and I got a job as a pilot by an operator who is working for United Nations all over the world.
                                    and this company like's to invest, so I told them my idea about the Cri Cri and that if we make cri cri in kits we would for sure make some money.

                                    So now they made me project leader, we have here all the tools to make cri cri. I all ready called Mr Colomban and told hem about my plans and he is going to send me all the information about the plans.

                                    It is kind of my dream to make Cri Cri more avelable for everybody. 
                                    my boss want to invest in this so we can make cri cri in kits and also we want to make a wibe shope where everybody can order cri cri in kit or in parts.

                                    So what do you think about this plan?

                                    I am by myself also an aeronautical engineer and we have here at our company  avionics engineers with more than 30 years work knowledege and also we have metal workers and all the tools, because we allready make here helicopters mission ready for Africa.

                                    This is why I was asking all this questions, because at the end of next week I have to have the information how much cost to build an cri cri.
                                    And also for how I can Sell a cri cri.

                                    Do you know for how much a good working and well designed cri cri could be sold?

                                    Thanks for your information again Christian


                                    To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                                    Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:13:57 -0700
                                    Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection


                                     

                                    And Ciar-
                                    Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history.
                                    Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are designed for MODEL AIRCRAFT,
                                    not man carrying aircraft,
                                    so a due amount of discretion is advised when/if contacting engine vendors.
                                    Please do not tell them you intend to use the engine in a MAN CARRYING aircraft.
                                    They may refuse to talk with you and/or refuse to sell you an engine and more importantly, it may
                                    set a precedent for those of us others who would like to purchase one of these engines for use in our
                                    CriCri's. Companies are very concerned about liability and lawsuits, so it is important for us
                                    to limit their concerns, by investigating engines for our 'MODEL AIRCRAFT'.
                                    I hope you understand this.
                                    -Christian

                                    --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                    Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                             -a division of-
                                    www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                           "We build ideas.."


                                    On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Joel Ventura <ventura@...> wrote:
                                    Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                                    be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine is
                                    a major decision, and a major commitment.









                                  • Jacek Kobiesa
                                    Christian, My name is Jacek. I have been on this group for quite some time now and I am building the Cri Cri. I live in Pasco, WA just west down the road from
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Dec 9, 2012
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Christian,

                                       

                                      My name is Jacek. I have been on this group for quite some time now and I am building the Cri Cri. I live in Pasco, WA just west down the road from you. Looks like you are using Solid Works, while I am using Autodesk Inventor and I am drawing some of the Cri Cri parts in order to get them cut, machined, etc. in my shop. We have water jet, CNC presses, brakes and all nine yards. I will have a canopy made by ….. (someone who does sailplanes canopies)….. and a fuel tank…….. (made by someone who builds sailplanes)….. if you send me a PM, we can exchange phone numbers…..

                                       

                                      Jacek

                                       

                                      P.S. I did my CFI check ride in Kalispell, MT

                                       

                                      From: CriCri@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CriCri@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Christian von Delius
                                      Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 11:47 PM
                                      To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection

                                       

                                       

                                      Ciar-

                                      It gives me good satisfaction to hear that you respect the original design.

                                      I have been a fan of the CriCri for several years and have done much research

                                      and evaluation. I am located in Kalispell, Montana, USA.

                                      I think pursueing the fabrication with the process that Van's RV aircraft uses would

                                      be a good approach. I have commitments at this time, so except for short times I cannot leave.

                                      I think to CNC all the aluminum parts would be a huge savings of time, including the rivet holes,

                                      but they would need to be done with great precision and predictablity to avoid problems.

                                      There seems to be much interest in the CriCri and if kits were offered I think it would allow the

                                      average builder to simplify their build experience.

                                      -Christian von Delius

                                      --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                      Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                               -a division of-
                                      www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                             "We build ideas.."



                                      On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:

                                       

                                      Christian,

                                       

                                      That is exactly my plan to build the cri cri according the plans of Mr Colomban.

                                      We are not going to put anything new in the design.

                                      Only we have to expriment with the engins but with this also we first ask advice of mr Colomban.

                                       

                                      As you said we are going to everything to keep Cri Cris name as good as it is and of course, when we build and finished one we will let it test by a professional cri cri pilot with a lot of flying experience.

                                       

                                      But Christian we make sure that from start till the end of the building process everything go's according the plans of Mr Colomban.

                                      And also we are going to invest to find a good solutions for the engine problems for cri cri.

                                      We have good amount of money to invest to make sure that everything is as save as possible.

                                       

                                      And Cristian in Which country do you stay.

                                      If you want meaby you can join our team. We have all the tools, machines and man power to build cri cri as save and efficiënt as possible. As you know there is a big question for buying cri cri.

                                      And if you join as meaby we than can offer also flying training for cri cri, because we have our own runway and the license for flying school.

                                       

                                      So if you are a fan of cri cri and want to make cri cri avelable for more people than let me talk with my boss and it would be a good busnisse. You and me can be the project leader and we have a team of 5 engineers. We have avianice engineer with he's workshop at our base, we have metal worker and all kind workers with good experience in revitings  and fastner experience.

                                       

                                      So let me know, and thanks for you'r concern about the savety of cri cri.

                                       

                                      Ciar

                                      Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPad


                                      Op 9 dec. 2012 om 09:12 heeft "Christian von Delius" <alpineglobalprivate@...> het volgende geschreven:

                                       

                                      Ciar-

                                      It is a similar plan to what I have.

                                      But I am only one person. I do not have a team of engineers, but I am

                                      an aeronautical engineer. Mass producing parts for the CriCri will be a large undertaking.

                                      There are over 2500 individual parts and nearly 1000 fabricated parts.

                                      And the empty weight must be 174 pounds, with engines.

                                      To preserve the integrity of the design, you must build the aircraft EXACTLY to the plans.

                                      Previously, an American company did modifications, with fatal results!

                                      And that is why Mr. Colomban will not support North America.

                                      If you decide to act in the fashion of a manufacturer, you must in good conscience

                                      build with the original design intent of Mr. Colomban.

                                      People's lives will depend on it.

                                      Originally the questions you were asking seemed like that of someone with little knowledge

                                      of things aeronautic, and hence my apprehension.

                                      A CriCri that is built by hand commands from $15,000 to $25,000 in my experience.

                                      If it were professionally fabricated, perhaps more.

                                      But then there is the question of pilot certification and proficiency; I would hope no inexperienced

                                      pilots would purchase it or attempt to fly it without the demonstrated training and experience.

                                      The last thing I or any fan of the CriCri would want to see is unqualified people attempting to fly it,

                                      and/or further accidents or deaths, bringing on a bad name for this safe aircraft.

                                      I also have much flying experience as a helicopter pilot, a fixed wing instrument pilot, a hang glider and ultralight pilot.

                                      I have seen many with big dreams, but little wisdom, so I am cautious in supporting any new enterprise, especially

                                      with the delicate history of the CriCri.

                                      -Christian

                                       

                                      --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                      Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                               -a division of-
                                      www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                             "We build ideas.."

                                      On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Ciar Sekander van Holstein <ciarsekander@...> wrote:

                                       

                                      Thanks Christian,

                                       

                                      For sure I won't tell them that I am going to use this engins in man carrying aircraft.

                                       

                                      You know the situation is like this:

                                       

                                      I just finished my helicopter pilot studies and I got a job as a pilot by an operator who is working for United Nations all over the world.

                                      and this company like's to invest, so I told them my idea about the Cri Cri and that if we make cri cri in kits we would for sure make some money.

                                       

                                      So now they made me project leader, we have here all the tools to make cri cri. I all ready called Mr Colomban and told hem about my plans and he is going to send me all the information about the plans.

                                       

                                      It is kind of my dream to make Cri Cri more avelable for everybody. 

                                      my boss want to invest in this so we can make cri cri in kits and also we want to make a wibe shope where everybody can order cri cri in kit or in parts.

                                       

                                      So what do you think about this plan?

                                       

                                      I am by myself also an aeronautical engineer and we have here at our company  avionics engineers with more than 30 years work knowledege and also we have metal workers and all the tools, because we allready make here helicopters mission ready for Africa.

                                       

                                      This is why I was asking all this questions, because at the end of next week I have to have the information how much cost to build an cri cri.

                                      And also for how I can Sell a cri cri.

                                       

                                      Do you know for how much a good working and well designed cri cri could be sold?

                                       

                                      Thanks for your information again Christian


                                      To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                      From: alpineglobalprivate@...
                                      Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 00:13:57 -0700
                                      Subject: Re: [CriCri] Cri Cri engins and feultanks: CriCri Engine Selection



                                       

                                       

                                      And Ciar-

                                      Joel has given you a wider and excellent review of CriCri engines and history.

                                      Another important consideration. The engines we have recommended are designed for MODEL AIRCRAFT,

                                      not man carrying aircraft,

                                      so a due amount of discretion is advised when/if contacting engine vendors.

                                      Please do not tell them you intend to use the engine in a MAN CARRYING aircraft.

                                      They may refuse to talk with you and/or refuse to sell you an engine and more importantly, it may

                                      set a precedent for those of us others who would like to purchase one of these engines for use in our

                                      CriCri's. Companies are very concerned about liability and lawsuits, so it is important for us

                                      to limit their concerns, by investigating engines for our 'MODEL AIRCRAFT'.

                                      I hope you understand this.

                                      -Christian


                                      --        www.BrilliantDesignOnline.com
                                      Solidworks Design & CNC Plasma Cutting

                                               -a division of-
                                      www.AlpineWorldwide.com
                                             "We build ideas.."

                                      On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:32 PM, Joel Ventura <ventura@...> wrote:

                                      Ciar, it does not sound to me like you have done enough homework yet to
                                      be talking about buying engines for a CriCri.  Deciding on an engine is
                                      a major decision, and a major commitment.

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                    • ciar45
                                      Dear members, Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them? And what would be the prise of the
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Dec 10, 2012
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Dear members,

                                        Can anyone of help me with the information about how much the cri cri engins cost and where I can order them?

                                        And what would be the prise of the fueltank?


                                        Thanks a lot.

                                        Best regards,

                                        Ciar van Holstein
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