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Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

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  • Stephen Blank,DDS
    Wankle engines run smooth, but the have 3 intake strokes per revolution and suck gas more then a conventional 4 stroke engines. My Mazda RX-8 got lousy gas
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 21, 2011
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      Wankle engines run smooth, but the have 3 intake strokes per revolution and suck gas more then a conventional 4 stroke engines. My Mazda RX-8 got lousy gas milage even with easy driving.

      Stephen Blank,DDS
      sent from my Evo-Shift

      On Oct 21, 2011 9:03 AM, "Jonei" <jonei_gramil@...> wrote:
       

      I Agree!
      The Wankel engine is the next step.
      It's a awsome engine. I would like to have It on my Go Kart... Clique em mim!
      But It's too expensive yet.
      Maybe when It will be popularised...
       
       
      -------Mensagem original-------
       
      Data: 20/10/2011 20:41:56
      Assunto: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
       
       


      With even the very finest twin-engine, 2-cycle Cri Cri installation if
      one of motors fail it is an emergency and the motors cause tremendous
      vibration and noise. The Wankel is the next step; it will be a long
      wait for a practical electric motor.

      --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, "Jonei" <jonei_gramil@...> wrote:
      >
      > What about this?
      > http://www.cricri.zoomshare.com/13.html
      >
      > This is a 3W engine.
      > http://www.3w-modellmotoren.com/
      >
      > This engine has two spark plug per cylinder.
      >
      > -------Mensagem original-------
      >
      > De: Christopher Pratt
      > Data: 20/10/2011 15:30:16
      > Para: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
      > Cc: jehardy@...
      > Assunto: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
      >
      >
      > Not sure if this would work with a Cri Cri, but check it out:
      >
      > http://www.ntin.net/jhardy/GenniPod.html
      >
      > Jim's a good guy. Took the liberty of cc-ing him on this email so feel
      free
      > to ask him directly via e-mail.
      >
      > Think he said it was for sale as Aircraft Spruce or Sporty's (I
      remember
      > something with an "S" when he told me a while ago)
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Wed, 10/19/11, Michel C Paré michelcpare@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Michel C Paré michelcpare@...
      > Subject: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
      > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 8:31 PM
      >
      >
      >
      > Yes it is a good engine from the specs and what I heard.
      >
      > But, it does not have a generator. A very very good choice would have
      a
      > generator for the electrical system, comm and nav system onboard the
      cricri
      > aircraft instead of using batterie.
      >
      > Otherwise, do you know someone who is able to design a generator for
      the
      > DA170 to be used on the cricri
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ===
      >
      >
      > --- On Wed, 10/19/11, Allen allen_chabot@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Allen allen_chabot@...
      > Subject: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
      > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
      > Received: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 9:14 PM
      >
      >
      >
      > There is a practical engine for the Cri Cri,
      > The Desert Aircraft 170 C.C. opposed twin. It is designed for giant
      scale
      > model
      > aircraft.
      > DA-170 Engine: $1,695.00
      > DA-170 Stock Mufflers: $180.00
      > DA-170 Compact Mufflers $200.00
      > DA-170
      > Specifications
      > Displacement: 10.48 ci (171.8 cc)
      > Output: 18 hp
      > Weight: 7.85 lbs (3.56 kilos)
      > Bore: 2.0472 in (52 mm)
      > Stroke: 1.594 in (40.49 mm)
      > Length: 7.67 in (195 mm)
      > RPM Range: 1,000 to 6,500
      > RPM Max: 9,200
      > Fuel Consumption: 4 oz/min @ 6,000 RPM
      > Warranty: Three year
      > http://desertaircraft.com/engines_detail.php?Page=DA-170
      >
      > Allen
      >

       
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    • leman wings
      though not as efficient as four cycle engine, the rotary engine will be more efficient than two stroke. The rotary probably not a very good engine for start
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 1, 2011
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        though not as efficient as four cycle engine, the rotary engine will be more efficient than two stroke. The rotary probably not a very good engine for start and stop car operation, but I believe it will rival four stroke in high continuous output. I would love to have one except for the price.

        --- On Fri, 10/21/11, Stephen Blank,DDS <sblankdds@...> wrote:

        From: Stephen Blank,DDS <sblankdds@...>
        Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
        To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, October 21, 2011, 2:08 PM

         
        Wankle engines run smooth, but the have 3 intake strokes per revolution and suck gas more then a conventional 4 stroke engines. My Mazda RX-8 got lousy gas milage even with easy driving.
        Stephen Blank,DDS
        sent from my Evo-Shift
        On Oct 21, 2011 9:03 AM, "Jonei" <jonei_gramil@...> wrote:
         
        I Agree!
        The Wankel engine is the next step.
        It's a awsome engine. I would like to have It on my Go Kart... Clique em mim!
        But It's too expensive yet.
        Maybe when It will be popularised...
         
         
        -------Mensagem original-------
         
        Data: 20/10/2011 20:41:56
        Assunto: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
         
         

        With even the very finest twin-engine, 2-cycle Cri Cri installation if
        one of motors fail it is an emergency and the motors cause tremendous
        vibration and noise. The Wankel is the next step; it will be a long
        wait for a practical electric motor.

        --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, "Jonei" <jonei_gramil@...> wrote:
        >
        > What about this?
        > http://www.cricri.zoomshare.com/13.html
        >
        > This is a 3W engine.
        > http://www.3w-modellmotoren.com/
        >
        > This engine has two spark plug per cylinder.
        >
        > -------Mensagem original-------
        >
        > De: Christopher Pratt
        > Data: 20/10/2011 15:30:16
        > Para: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
        > Cc: jehardy@...
        > Assunto: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
        >
        >
        > Not sure if this would work with a Cri Cri, but check it out:
        >
        > http://www.ntin.net/jhardy/GenniPod.html
        >
        > Jim's a good guy. Took the liberty of cc-ing him on this email so feel
        free
        > to ask him directly via e-mail.
        >
        > Think he said it was for sale as Aircraft Spruce or Sporty's (I
        remember
        > something with an "S" when he told me a while ago)
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Wed, 10/19/11, Michel C Paré michelcpare@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Michel C Paré michelcpare@...
        > Subject: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
        > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 8:31 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > Yes it is a good engine from the specs and what I heard.
        >
        > But, it does not have a generator. A very very good choice would have
        a
        > generator for the electrical system, comm and nav system onboard the
        cricri
        > aircraft instead of using batterie.
        >
        > Otherwise, do you know someone who is able to design a generator for
        the
        > DA170 to be used on the cricri
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ===
        >
        >
        > --- On Wed, 10/19/11, Allen allen_chabot@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: Allen allen_chabot@...
        > Subject: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
        > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
        > Received: Wednesday, October 19, 2011, 9:14 PM
        >
        >
        >
        > There is a practical engine for the Cri Cri,
        > The Desert Aircraft 170 C.C. opposed twin. It is designed for giant
        scale
        > model
        > aircraft.
        > DA-170 Engine: $1,695.00
        > DA-170 Stock Mufflers: $180.00
        > DA-170 Compact Mufflers $200.00
        > DA-170
        > Specifications
        > Displacement: 10.48 ci (171.8 cc)
        > Output: 18 hp
        > Weight: 7.85 lbs (3.56 kilos)
        > Bore: 2.0472 in (52 mm)
        > Stroke: 1.594 in (40.49 mm)
        > Length: 7.67 in (195 mm)
        > RPM Range: 1,000 to 6,500
        > RPM Max: 9,200
        > Fuel Consumption: 4 oz/min @ 6,000 RPM
        > Warranty: Three year
        > http://desertaircraft.com/engines_detail.php?Page=DA-170
        >
        > Allen
        >

         
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      • Corey Renner
        A Wankel is not more efficient than an advanced two stroke, as awesome as they are, their specific fuel consumption sucks. I used to have an Rx-7 and I like
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 1, 2011
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          A Wankel is not more efficient than an advanced two stroke, as awesome as they are, their specific fuel consumption sucks.  I used to have an Rx-7 and I like them so much that I have an epitrichoid housing and rotor from a  Mazda 13B in my garage as a decoration.  That said, their efficiency has always been dismal and is unlikely to improve.  An extremely-cool engineering dead-end.

          cheers,
          c

          On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:35 PM, leman wings <bluewater65s@...> wrote:
          though not as efficient as four cycle engine, the rotary engine will be more efficient than two stroke. The rotary probably not a very good engine for start and stop car operation, but I believe it will rival four stroke in high continuous output. I would love to have one except for the price.

        • WilliamRich
          The Rotron high power-to-weight and lack of vibration makes it a possible winner. I would gladly lose 20-pounds to accomodate a little extra fuel! If the
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 2, 2011
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            The Rotron high power-to-weight and lack of vibration makes it a possible winner. I would gladly lose 20-pounds to accomodate a little extra fuel! If the Rotron is realiable, I believe the moderate cost and extra fuel consumption will be acceptable. After all, the idea is to FLY!

            --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
            >
            > A Wankel is not more efficient than an advanced two stroke, as awesome as
            > they are, their specific fuel consumption sucks. I used to have an Rx-7
            > and I like them so much that I have an epitrichoid housing and rotor from a
            > Mazda 13B in my garage as a decoration. That said, their efficiency has
            > always been dismal and is unlikely to improve. An extremely-cool
            > engineering dead-end.
            >
            > cheers,
            > c
            >
            > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:35 PM, leman wings <bluewater65s@...> wrote:
            >
            > > though not as efficient as four cycle engine, the rotary engine will be
            > > more efficient than two stroke. The rotary probably not a very good engine
            > > for start and stop car operation, but I believe it will rival four stroke
            > > in high continuous output. I would love to have one except for the price.
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Attila Bertok
            Hi, I am a big fan of rotary technology, but $10,000 is not a moderate cost for this engine by any measure. For this performance, ~$4,000 would be the limit.
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 3, 2011
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              Hi,

              I am a big fan of rotary technology, but $10,000 is not a moderate cost for this engine by any measure. For this performance, ~$4,000 would be the limit. What makes you say that it is moderate cost engine? The Woelfle gokart engine is a better option then (XR-50). Probably they are the same engine.

              Cheers
              Attila



              From: WilliamRich <williamrich1@...>
              To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2011 3:08 PM
              Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

               
              The Rotron high power-to-weight and lack of vibration makes it a possible winner. I would gladly lose 20-pounds to accomodate a little extra fuel! If the Rotron is realiable, I believe the moderate cost and extra fuel consumption will be acceptable. After all, the idea is to FLY!

              --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
              >
              > A Wankel is not more efficient than an advanced two stroke, as awesome as
              > they are, their specific fuel consumption sucks. I used to have an Rx-7
              > and I like them so much that I have an epitrichoid housing and rotor from a
              > Mazda 13B in my garage as a decoration. That said, their efficiency has
              > always been dismal and is unlikely to improve. An extremely-cool
              > engineering dead-end.
              >
              > cheers,
              > c
              >
              > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:35 PM, leman wings <bluewater65s@...> wrote:
              >
              > > though not as efficient as four cycle engine, the rotary engine will be
              > > more efficient than two stroke. The rotary probably not a very good engine
              > > for start and stop car operation, but I believe it will rival four stroke
              > > in high continuous output. I would love to have one except for the price.
              > >
              > >
              >



            • Travis Loofbourrow
              The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH s base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 4, 2011
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                The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                 
                Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
              • trav.loof55
                I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 4, 2011
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                  I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!

                  Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago). Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!

                  --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Travis Loofbourrow <trav.loof55@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                  >  
                  > Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
                  >
                • Joel Ventura
                  ... The two JPX engines (for which the latest CriCri variant was designed) weight 15 lbs each, plus exhaust, plus engine support pylons may well put it closer
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 4, 2011
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                    On 11/4/2011 12:45 PM, trav.loof55 wrote:
                     

                    I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!

                    Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago).

                    The two JPX engines (for which the latest CriCri variant was designed) weight 15 lbs each, plus exhaust, plus engine support pylons may well put it closer in wt to the 40 HP engine than the 25 HP engine.  The JPX CriCri has a total of 30 HP, and though the 25 HP Rotron has a prop reduction which would make the propeller efficiency much higher than for the direct drive JPX's, I still think the small engine would under power the CriCri.  It is easy to reduce power if you have too much, but the reverse is not so easy.

                    Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!

                    _
                    These props are designed for the low speeds of a powered parachute and are totally unacceptable for the relatively high speeds of a CriCri, and the thrusts quoted are very misleading. You would have to play around with a prop design program like this one to see what kind of prop you would need, and then make or buy the appropriate ones.

                    http://www.mail2600.com/PropDesign/index.html

                    With the high speed of the CriCri and 40 HP you could afford the inefficency of direct drive in exchange for the lower weight and smaller prop diameter.  The larger engine has 60% more power, which is a huge difference, and well worth the upgrade if you could afford it.  But changing to a single engine in the nose is a major change to the design, and should not be taken lightly.  It would require some re-engineering and stress analysis, though it has been done before, and I knew a guy who was very happy with his end result.  It was of course, no longer a CriCri. --joel
                  • Osman Abd alrhman
                    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy ________________________________ From: Joel Ventura
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 5, 2011
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                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy


                      From: Joel Ventura <ventura@...>
                      To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 11:15 PM
                      Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                       
                      On 11/4/2011 12:45 PM, trav.loof55 wrote:
                       
                      I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!

                      Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago).
                      The two JPX engines (for which the latest CriCri variant was designed) weight 15 lbs each, plus exhaust, plus engine support pylons may well put it closer in wt to the 40 HP engine than the 25 HP engine.  The JPX CriCri has a total of 30 HP, and though the 25 HP Rotron has a prop reduction which would make the propeller efficiency much higher than for the direct drive JPX's, I still think the small engine would under power the CriCri.  It is easy to reduce power if you have too much, but the reverse is not so easy.
                      Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!

                      _
                      These props are designed for the low speeds of a powered parachute and are totally unacceptable for the relatively high speeds of a CriCri, and the thrusts quoted are very misleading. You would have to play around with a prop design program like this one to see what kind of prop you would need, and then make or buy the appropriate ones.

                      http://www.mail2600.com/PropDesign/index.html

                      With the high speed of the CriCri and 40 HP you could afford the inefficency of direct drive in exchange for the lower weight and smaller prop diameter.  The larger engine has 60% more power, which is a huge difference, and well worth the upgrade if you could afford it.  But changing to a single engine in the nose is a major change to the design, and should not be taken lightly.  It would require some re-engineering and stress analysis, though it has been done before, and I knew a guy who was very happy with his end result.  It was of course, no longer a CriCri. --joel


                    • Osman Abd alrhman
                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy ________________________________ From: trav.loof55
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 5, 2011
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                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy


                        From: trav.loof55 <trav.loof55@...>
                        To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 7:45 PM
                        Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                         
                        I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!

                        Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago). Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!

                        --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Travis Loofbourrow <trav.loof55@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                        >  
                        > Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
                        >



                      • Osman Abd alrhman
                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy ________________________________ From: Attila
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 5, 2011
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                          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy


                          From: Attila Bertok <attila.bertok@...>
                          To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 3:32 AM
                          Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                           
                          Hi,

                          I am a big fan of rotary technology, but $10,000 is not a moderate cost for this engine by any measure. For this performance, ~$4,000 would be the limit. What makes you say that it is moderate cost engine? The Woelfle gokart engine is a better option then (XR-50). Probably they are the same engine.

                          Cheers
                          Attila



                          From: WilliamRich <williamrich1@...>
                          To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2011 3:08 PM
                          Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                           
                          The Rotron high power-to-weight and lack of vibration makes it a possible winner. I would gladly lose 20-pounds to accomodate a little extra fuel! If the Rotron is realiable, I believe the moderate cost and extra fuel consumption will be acceptable. After all, the idea is to FLY!

                          --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Corey Renner <vandal968@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > A Wankel is not more efficient than an advanced two stroke, as awesome as
                          > they are, their specific fuel consumption sucks. I used to have an Rx-7
                          > and I like them so much that I have an epitrichoid housing and rotor from a
                          > Mazda 13B in my garage as a decoration. That said, their efficiency has
                          > always been dismal and is unlikely to improve. An extremely-cool
                          > engineering dead-end.
                          >
                          > cheers,
                          > c
                          >
                          > On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 9:35 PM, leman wings <bluewater65s@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > though not as efficient as four cycle engine, the rotary engine will be
                          > > more efficient than two stroke. The rotary probably not a very good engine
                          > > for start and stop car operation, but I believe it will rival four stroke
                          > > in high continuous output. I would love to have one except for the price.
                          > >
                          > >
                          >





                        • Christian
                          I think the Rotron is too heavy and expensive.. I think these guys may be on the right track concerning CriCri engines. Remember, it s not quality, but
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 5, 2011
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                            I think the Rotron is too heavy and expensive..
                            I think these guys may be on the right track concerning CriCri engines. Remember, it's not quality, but quantity!
                            http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_aKr_7llvdWo/SNnDbFHRJKI/AAAAAAAAAGU/NXVx5XFV-os/s1600/Al_Ain_06_Modelle_A380_3.jpg
                            http://bigestplane.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/a380-airbus-rc2.jpg
                            All you need to do is add a canopy and you can just keep the controller in your lap..
                            -Christian

                            > From: Attila Bertok <attila.bertok@...>
                            > To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 3:32 AM
                            > Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            > Hi,
                            >
                            > I am a big fan of rotary technology, but $10,000 is not a moderate cost for this engine by any measure. For this performance, ~$4,000 would be the limit. What makes you say that it is moderate cost engine? The Woelfle gokart engine is a better option then (XR-50). Probably they are the same engine.
                            >
                            > Cheers
                            > Attila
                            >
                          • Osman Abd alrhman
                            hi how are you i made cri cri real not rc plane ok ________________________________ From: Osman Abd alrhman To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 7, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              hi how are you i made cri cri real not rc plane ok

                              From: Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...>
                              To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 12:26 PM
                              Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                               
                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy


                              From: trav.loof55 <trav.loof55@...>
                              To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 7:45 PM
                              Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                               
                              I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!

                              Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago). Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!

                              --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Travis Loofbourrow <trav.loof55@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                              >  
                              > Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
                              >





                            • Csalmon@ymail.com
                              lol Christopher Salmon 573-986-7692 csalmon@ymail.com
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 7, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                lol

                                Christopher Salmon
                                573-986-7692


                                On Nov 7, 2011, at 7:07, Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...> wrote:

                                 

                                hi how are you i made cri cri real not rc plane ok

                                From: Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...>
                                To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 12:26 PM
                                Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                                 
                                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy


                                From: trav.loof55 <trav.loof55@...>
                                To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 7:45 PM
                                Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                                 
                                I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!

                                Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago). Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!

                                --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Travis Loofbourrow <trav.loof55@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                                >  
                                > Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
                                >





                              • Christian
                                I understand that you build a real CriCri in Sudan. Post some photos if you like. -Christian
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 7, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I understand that you build a real CriCri in Sudan.
                                  Post some photos if you like.
                                  -Christian

                                  --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > hi how are you i made cri cri real not rc plane ok
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...>
                                  > To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 12:26 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0%c3%82%c2%a0 go to this link and  enjoy
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: trav.loof55 <trav.loof55@...>
                                  > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 7:45 PM
                                  > Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  > I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!
                                  >
                                  > Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago). Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!
                                  >
                                  > --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Travis Loofbourrow <trav.loof55@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                                  > >  
                                  > > Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Osman Abd alrhman
                                  ok but you don,t belive me i upload some photo for you but not now iam very busy brcause i build another cri cri ok ________________________________ From:
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 8, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment

                                    ok but you don,t belive me i upload some photo for you but not now iam very busy brcause i build another cri cri ok

                                    From: Christian <alpineglobalprivate@...>
                                    To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 9:49 PM
                                    Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                                     
                                    I understand that you build a real CriCri in Sudan.
                                    Post some photos if you like.
                                    -Christian

                                    --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > hi how are you i made cri cri real not rc plane ok
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...>
                                    > To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                                    > Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 12:26 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: trav.loof55 <trav.loof55@...>
                                    > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 7:45 PM
                                    > Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    > I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!
                                    >
                                    > Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago). Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!
                                    >
                                    > --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Travis Loofbourrow <trav.loof55@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                                    > >  
                                    > > Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
                                    > >
                                    >



                                  • Osman Abd alrhman
                                    iam not kid to play with rc airplane ok and what you mean about LoL i build real cri cri ________________________________ From: Csalmon@ymail.com
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 8, 2011
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      iam not kid to play with rc airplane ok and what you mean about LoL i build real cri cri


                                      From: "Csalmon@..." <csalmon@...>
                                      To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, November 7, 2011 7:54 PM
                                      Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                                       
                                      lol

                                      Christopher Salmon
                                      573-986-7692


                                      On Nov 7, 2011, at 7:07, Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...> wrote:

                                       
                                      hi how are you i made cri cri real not rc plane ok

                                      From: Osman Abd alrhman <osman_9222@...>
                                      To: "CriCri@yahoogroups.com" <CriCri@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 12:26 PM
                                      Subject: Re: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                                       
                                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cri-Cri-In-Sudan/237466116276935         go to this link and  enjoy


                                      From: trav.loof55 <trav.loof55@...>
                                      To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Friday, November 4, 2011 7:45 PM
                                      Subject: Res: Re: [CriCri] Practical Cri Cri engines

                                       
                                      I went back and looked at the information I had on the Rotron engines (I had talked to Rotron in Nov 2010 of last year) and they quoted at the time $6,080 for the 160cc version & $8240 for the 294cc version (a $2160 difference). That pricing was for the engine itself (with accessories) minus the paraglider frame, seat, propeller & fuel tank. Still overpriced no doubt!!

                                      Also of note, there is a hand pull start option on the 160cc version (only available on it) that drops the weight of it down 5 lbs...so the pull start 160cc version would be 27 lbs overall, which is about perfect for a single engine CriCri (it also drops the price down about another $400 to around $5680 for the engine as of a year ago). Since the reduction drive mounts the prop up higher on the engine it would help the ground clearance when using the standard 41" dia prop that Parajet uses on this engine (good for 137 lbs thrust). There is also an optional larger 53" dia prop that increases thrust to 172 lbs, but it may not clear the ground on a CriCri? Keep in mind that the larger 294cc version wankel engine(which is 40 HP) uses the same 53" dia prop as its only prop option, and it only produces 203 lbs thrust with it...so the 15 extra HP & 18 lbs extra weight only gains you 31 lbs of thrust, which is hardly worth it!

                                      --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, Travis Loofbourrow <trav.loof55@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > The Rotron 294cc engine actually uses Woelfle Engineering GmbH's base engine block (side housings, rotor, & main rotor housing) but then they add their own intake system, drive system, water pump, generator system, etc. to it. Woelfle Engineering itself does offer cheaper engines in both a Gocart version (the XF 50) and an aircraft version (the Aixro XF 40), but they are heavier than the Rotron version. Rotron redesigned all of the supporting accessories in order to reduce the overall weight of the Aixro XF 40 by about 9 lbs (45 lbs vs 54 lbs overall ...the 45 lb weight includes all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 34 lbs according to Rotron).
                                      >  
                                      > Rotron also offers a smaller & lighter 160cc version wankel engine that makes 25 HP & weighs 13 lbs less than the 294cc version ( this would make it about 32 lbs with all accessories, reduction drive, & exhaust system...the base engine itself is 28 lbs). It is also about $1500 less in price and is probably a much better choice for the CriCri. Still, it is WAY overpriced for the power it makes and will likely fail to make it in the marketplace & thus won't last long in production!!
                                      >







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