Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

3W

Expand Messages
  • Cricri
    Hi All, Sorry to start this thread off again, but I have been reading through the 110 messages on this topic and trying to work out who is flying with the 3W,
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi All,
       
      Sorry to start this thread off again, but I have been reading through the 110 messages on this topic and trying to work out who is flying with the 3W, thinking of fitting it and who is just plain interested in fitting them.
       
      My winter project will be to re-engine F-PYPM.  The JPX are getting just a bit too tetchy for me now and it is time to change to a modern engine(s).  I would like to know which series of 3W works for the Cricri, any problems pilots had in fitting them, the pro's and con's of using the 3W.  Does Michel Colomban approve of these engines and will pilots share their plans and sketches with me.
       
      Looking forward to the responses.
       
      Terry
    • Wayne/Gill Butt
      Hi Terry, Here s some info on the 3W 240i B2 TS. You will know it weights 15.2 lbs with ignition (6.9Kg). HP is stated to be 22 . I have performed the HP tests
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Terry,
        Here's some info on the 3W 240i B2 TS. You will know it weights 15.2 lbs with ignition (6.9Kg).
         HP is stated to be 22 .
        I have performed the HP tests required before Michel will comment, and have obtained 21.5 Hp at 5850 RPM with each of my engines using an exhaust of my design. I understand Michele generally dissasociates himself from plans alterations, including alternative power plants, but he was happy to comment very positively when I wrote to him earlier this year. He gave me the address of a French Cricri owner who flies with this engine and this is the only person I have heard of flying behind the 3W 240. I wrote, but haven't received a reply. Michele says there are quite a number of French Cricri's with the Zanzottera engine which has a very similar performance profile to the 240.
         
        He suggested 3 or 4 pointers, including:
        1. think about Vmc management - suggests less than optimal exhaust to reduce power particularly near stall, or a three blade prop.
        2. approves my engine mount design disposing of the mostache, with reservations
        3. expect the engines to run too cool - may need baffles
        4. expect to have an engine failure!!
         
        If you go down this track Terry I am happy to share my exhaust, alternator and engine mount designs. In my opinion the need for an alternator is this single most challenging issue for any of these alternative engines that are dependant on electronic ignition.
         
        These alterations are not yet proven in flight of course, but at least Michele has run his eye over them. I have a lot of detail. Just drop me an email (with a photo of PYPM).
        Wayne
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Cricri
        Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:57 PM
        Subject: [CriCri] 3W

        Hi All,
         
        Sorry to start this thread off again, but I have been reading through the 110 messages on this topic and trying to work out who is flying with the 3W, thinking of fitting it and who is just plain interested in fitting them.
         
        My winter project will be to re-engine F-PYPM.  The JPX are getting just a bit too tetchy for me now and it is time to change to a modern engine(s).  I would like to know which series of 3W works for the Cricri, any problems pilots had in fitting them, the pro's and con's of using the 3W.  Does Michel Colomban approve of these engines and will pilots share their plans and sketches with me.
         
        Looking forward to the responses.
         
        Terry



        __________ NOD32 1.1784 (20060929) Information __________

        This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
        http://www.eset.com
      • aerofoamy
        ... lbs with ignition (6.9Kg). ... and have obtained 21.5 Hp at 5850 RPM with each of my engines using an exhaust of my design. Hello, I am new to this group.
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne/Gill Butt" <butt5@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Terry,
          > Here's some info on the 3W 240i B2 TS. You will know it weights 15.2
          lbs with ignition (6.9Kg).
          > HP is stated to be 22 .
          > I have performed the HP tests required before Michel will comment,
          and have obtained 21.5 Hp at 5850 RPM with each of my engines using an
          exhaust of my design.

          Hello, I am new to this group.
          My Name is Mark, I build UAV's and prototypes for various
          organizations and have always been intrigued by the Cri Cri. Some of
          the unmanned planes I have built are in this size range or larger..
          The last batch had 3-W B212 4 cylinder engines swinging 32" Memphis
          props and using CH ignitions. They were very nice, but I don't think
          they put out the power listed on the specs. They are also fairly
          pricey and so are the ignitions, which are very power hungry for their
          size. I would seriously consider the DA-150 for the Cri Cri, it is
          8lbs. and puts out 16.5 HP. It would be a great candidate if 16hp. is
          in the right ball park.
          They swing the same prop as larger engines like the B212 and only
          consume about 1.5gal/hr. at almost WOT. (6000 rpm.)
          I joined this list to learn more about the Cri Cri. I am about to
          start another project that will be similar in size and specs. and may
          use it as an excuse to build some extra parts for a Cri Cri "Like"
          project. I am looking forward to seeing pictures of list members
          projects as they are coming together.

          MM.
        • kjetil volent
          Hi Mark, Welcome to the group!! Comparing the DA vs 3W, in your opinion, what are the main differences? From the spec, they seem pretty much the same and the
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 5, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Mark,
             
            Welcome to the group!!
            Comparing the DA vs 3W, in your opinion, what are the main differences? From the spec, they seem pretty much the same and the price is about the same. Then only major difference that I can see is that the 3W engine offers twin sparkĀ….

            Comparing the DA-150 with 3W-150iB2F:

            DA-150:                                         3W-150iB2F:
            Displacement: 9.15 ci (150 cc)         Cylinder capacity: 9.19 cu.in
            Output: 16.5 hp                               Power: 16,5 HP; 12,1 kW
            Bore: 1.9291 in (49 mm)                  Bore dia.: 1.929 in
            Stroke: 1.5748 in (40 mm)               Stroke: 1.57 in
            RPM Range: 1,000 to 6,500             Speed range: 1200-8500 rpm
            (RPM Max: 8,500)  
            Weight: 7.96 lbs (3.61 kilos)            Weight: 8.15 lbs incl. ignition
            Three crank bearings                      Crankshaft: 3 Ball bearings
            Price $1,495.00                              Price EUR 1.225,00

            Your comments are very much appreciated!!!
            Rgds
            Kjetil


            aerofoamy <aerofoamy@...> wrote:
            --- In CriCri@yahoogroups. com, "Wayne/Gill Butt" <butt5@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Terry,
            > Here's some info on the 3W 240i B2 TS. You will know it weights 15.2
            lbs with ignition (6.9Kg).
            > HP is stated to be 22 .
            > I have performed the HP tests required before Michel will comment,
            and have obtained 21.5 Hp at 5850 RPM with each of my engines using an
            exhaust of my design.

            Hello, I am new to this group.
            My Name is Mark, I build UAV's and prototypes for various
            organizations and have always been intrigued by the Cri Cri. Some of
            the unmanned planes I have built are in this size range or larger..
            The last batch had 3-W B212 4 cylinder engines swinging 32" Memphis
            props and using CH ignitions. They were very nice, but I don't think
            they put out the power listed on the specs. They are also fairly
            pricey and so are the ignitions, which are very power hungry for their
            size. I would seriously consider the DA-150 for the Cri Cri, it is
            8lbs. and puts out 16.5 HP. It would be a great candidate if 16hp. is
            in the right ball park.
            They swing the same prop as larger engines like the B212 and only
            consume about 1.5gal/hr. at almost WOT. (6000 rpm.)
            I joined this list to learn more about the Cri Cri. I am about to
            start another project that will be similar in size and specs. and may
            use it as an excuse to build some extra parts for a Cri Cri "Like"
            project. I am looking forward to seeing pictures of list members
            projects as they are coming together.

            MM.



            Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

          • FDVS
            ... how do they compare in these categories: reliability (start, and stay running) longevity parts availability ???? Dave Taylor
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 5, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              > Comparing the DA-150 with 3W-150iB2F:


              how do they compare in these categories:

              reliability (start, and stay running)
              longevity
              parts availability

              ????


              Dave Taylor
            • aerofoamy
              ... I can t give you any hard numbers, but the Tournament of Champions contestants mostly fly these engines. They are used in planes that typically can weigh
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 5, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, FDVS <wtxvets@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Comparing the DA-150 with 3W-150iB2F:
                >
                > how do they compare in these categories:
                >
                > reliability (start, and stay running)
                > longevity
                > parts availability

                I can't give you any hard numbers, but the Tournament of Champions
                contestants mostly fly these engines. They are used in planes that
                typically can weigh 20 to 40 lbs and perform many of their manuevers
                while hovering, violently rolling, knife edging or flying inverted.
                The planes probably cost as much or more than a Cri Cri and are built
                with state of the art carbon fiber bagging techniques most can and do
                pull over 20 G's.
                The motors are designed to run hard and the power curves are for
                aerobatics. Everyone I have talked to loves them (DA's). I do not
                frequent this group and I don't fly in any of those venues, but the
                guys who do are very particular.
                I can't give you personal experience with a DA yet, it looks like the
                next project will use them though.
                I am just passing on the info I have heard from those that use them.
                I am suggesting that they should be looked into a bit more.

                MM
              • Scott Perkins
                Longevity is the key parameter... All the airplane modelers will tell you they only last 40 or 50 hours.... When they are lucky ! otherwise, maybe 15 - 30
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 6, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Longevity is the key parameter... All the airplane modelers will tell
                  you
                  they only last 40 or 50 hours.... When they are lucky ! otherwise,
                  maybe
                  15 - 30 etc.

                  FDVS wrote:
                  >
                  > > Comparing the DA-150 with 3W-150iB2F:
                  >
                  > how do they compare in these categories:
                  >
                  > reliability (start, and stay running)
                  > longevity
                  > parts availability
                  >
                  > ????
                  >
                  > Dave Taylor
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • aerofoamy
                  ... The only people that I know of who rebuild or replace the frequently are the ones who are in top competition and they are running the engines hard all the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 6, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > Longevity is the key parameter... All the airplane modelers will tell
                    > you
                    > they only last 40 or 50 hours.... When they are lucky ! otherwise,
                    > maybe
                    > 15 - 30 etc.

                    The only people that I know of who rebuild or replace the frequently
                    are the ones who are in top competition and they are running the engines
                    hard all the time. the guys who just fly large scale run their engines
                    for years without incident, it may be worth a call to DA to enquire
                    about engine life when used at moderate cruise parameters.
                    There are 2 main reasons that the guys I work with like DA, the first
                    and formost is support, DA is very accessible, you can call and get
                    whatever you want. The second reason is that the engine was designed
                    from the ground up for it's task. Some friends at a govt. lab did a
                    bunch of engine research and testing and most of the engines available
                    as of 2 years ago were just case assemblies for chainsaw cylinders and
                    pistons. Most were garage type operations, I believe this is changing.
                    There is a real gap in engines between 4hp. and 30hp. I guess there
                    must not be a lot of demand in those sizes. it makes me think about
                    cutting up motorcycle engines again.....
                    Does anyone have a current list of motors in the 15 to 25hp range?

                    M.M.
                  • FDVS
                    ... WHAT?? 1500$ gets you 30hours, that is 50 bucks an hour operating costs??? Dave Taylor
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 6, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Scott Perkins wrote:
                      > Longevity is the key parameter... All the airplane modelers will tell
                      > you
                      > they only last 40 or 50 hours.... When they are lucky ! otherwise,
                      > maybe
                      > 15 - 30 etc.

                      WHAT??
                      1500$ gets you 30hours, that is 50 bucks an hour operating costs???



                      Dave Taylor
                    • aerofoamy
                      ... Yeah, I have never heard of this either, but keep in mind that drag racers don t even get a full minute of racing out of a motor before rebuilding it, so
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 6, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > WHAT??
                        > 1500$ gets you 30hours, that is 50 bucks an hour operating costs???
                        >

                        Yeah, I have never heard of this either, but keep in mind that drag
                        racers don't even get a full minute of racing out of a motor
                        before rebuilding it, so when it comes to competition, the money flows....

                        MM.
                      • Scott Perkins
                        there are dozens of engines perfected for use by the backpack paragliding crowd in the 15 to 25 hp range Scott
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 6, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          there are dozens of engines perfected for use by the backpack
                          paragliding
                          crowd in the 15 to 25 hp range

                          Scott

                          aerofoamy wrote:
                          >
                          > > Longevity is the key parameter... All the airplane modelers will tell
                          > > you
                          > > they only last 40 or 50 hours.... When they are lucky ! otherwise,
                          > > maybe
                          > > 15 - 30 etc.
                          >
                          > The only people that I know of who rebuild or replace the frequently
                          > are the ones who are in top competition and they are running the engines
                          > hard all the time. the guys who just fly large scale run their engines
                          > for years without incident, it may be worth a call to DA to enquire
                          > about engine life when used at moderate cruise parameters.
                          > There are 2 main reasons that the guys I work with like DA, the first
                          > and formost is support, DA is very accessible, you can call and get
                          > whatever you want. The second reason is that the engine was designed
                          > from the ground up for it's task. Some friends at a govt. lab did a
                          > bunch of engine research and testing and most of the engines available
                          > as of 2 years ago were just case assemblies for chainsaw cylinders and
                          > pistons. Most were garage type operations, I believe this is changing.
                          > There is a real gap in engines between 4hp. and 30hp. I guess there
                          > must not be a lot of demand in those sizes. it makes me think about
                          > cutting up motorcycle engines again.....
                          > Does anyone have a current list of motors in the 15 to 25hp range?
                          >
                          > M.M.
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.