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Re: [CriCri] Re: Here we go again! Single engine cri cri

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  • Cricri
    Hi Rob, I believe that Michel Colombans original idea was to build the worlds smallest twin engine aircraft. Don t know how a single engine twin prop would be
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 24, 2003
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      Hi Rob,
       
      I believe that Michel Colombans original idea was to build the worlds smallest twin engine aircraft.
       
      Don't know how a single engine twin prop would be classified.  It would certainly scare the life out of the CAA.
       
      Regards
       
      Terry
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Rob
      Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:37 AM
      Subject: [CriCri] Re: Here we go again! Single engine cri cri


      I too am interested in a single engine cri cri,  from what i
      understand, Mr colomban original idea was for the cri to be a single
      engined aircraft.  would be interesting to find out if he still has
      some original drawings of this idea? and if would be willing to
      resurect it!

      My thinking is along the lines of a Rotax 227 or bigger installed in
      the nose, with drive shafts turning 2 propellors in a similar
      configuration as is the cri cri now.

      i read an artical not to long ago, where somone had installed 2
      modified Rotax 227 engines on a cri. and was capable of out climbing
      with a higher cruise speed than a Cessna Cardinal on ONE engine! 




    • W. David Doiron
      ... The following message is forwarded to you by W. David Doiron ... What is the license number from Michel Colomban for this set of plans.
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 3 11:54 AM
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        -------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The following message is forwarded to you by W. David Doiron <DDoiron@...>
        -------------------------------------------------------------------------

        "What is the license number from Michel Colomban for this set of plans. Thanks...David Doiron"


        >David,
        >The serial was blanked out when they were scanned. The plans are for US people only, since Mr. Colomban is not selling the plans here.
        >To bid or purchase this item, go to:
        >4532122799 Mar-08-05
        >Cricket Plans Set
        >Thank you,
        >kenamt



        Well, here we go again. Some people think it is OK for THEM to steal,
        and that the stolen plans would not be taken to someplace where Michel IS selling them...
        Of course not...
        Besides, if they really are the CRICKET set with Heintz deadly drawings,
        anybody who builds that version has a good chance of killing themselves.
        -------------------------------------------------------------------
        W. David DOIRON <DDoiron"at"cox.net>
        -------------------------------------------------------------------
      • Al Doyle
        Guys: This brings up a fairly important point... I ve wanted a set of Cri-Cri plans for years, but haven t made the effort to contact Colomban because plans in
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 3 3:28 PM
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          Guys:
          This brings up a fairly important point...
          I've wanted a set of Cri-Cri plans for
          years, but haven't made the effort to contact
          Colomban because plans in French would be
          useless to me. I don't speak French, and I'm
          apprehensive about missing some important
          note on the drawings. The Cricket seemed to
          be my only option.

          Or, are Cri-Cri drawings so simple that even
          I could understand them, and build the original
          plane properly?

          The second of two turbine engines I'd like to
          use is currently under construction. See ebay
          item 5956856855 (2/20/05)

          Al Doyle

          --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, W. David Doiron <DDoiron@c...> wrote:
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          -----
          > The following message is forwarded to you by W. David Doiron
          <DDoiron@c...>
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------
          -----
          >
          > "What is the license number from Michel Colomban for this set of
          plans. Thanks...David Doiron"
          >
          >
          > >David,
          > >The serial was blanked out when they were scanned. The plans are
          for US people only, since Mr. Colomban is not selling the plans here.
          > >To bid or purchase this item, go to:
          > >4532122799 Mar-08-
          05
          > >Cricket Plans Set
          > >Thank you,
          > >kenamt
          >
          >
          >
          > Well, here we go again. Some people think it is OK for THEM to
          steal,
          > and that the stolen plans would not be taken to someplace where
          Michel IS selling them...
          > Of course not...
          > Besides, if they really are the CRICKET set with Heintz deadly
          drawings,
          > anybody who builds that version has a good chance of killing
          themselves.
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
          > W. David DOIRON <DDoiron"at"cox.net>
          > -------------------------------------------------------------------
        • Joel Ventura
          Dear Dr. David Dorian: I have a Heintz Cricket kit, so I hope you do not have to pronounce me dead some day. My plan was to build this kit when I finish my
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 3 3:32 PM
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            Dear Dr. David Dorian:

            I have a Heintz Cricket kit, so I hope you do not have to pronounce me
            dead some day. My plan was to build this kit when I finish my current
            project (a Longeze), but make all the significant changes necessary to
            conform to the Colomban plans. Now, it is my understanding that the
            plans that come with the Cricket kit from Heintz are the original CRICRI
            plans from Colomban, and from all indications I can see on the plans
            they are. However, in your last post you mention the "Heintz deadly
            drawings". Do you know something I do not about these plans? I did
            notice that some parts in the kit do not conform to the plans, so I
            assumed that this is where Heintz deviated from them.

            I know the wing spars in the kit do not conform to the plans, but they
            are close in strength, and there is a very large safety factor in that
            spar, so I plan to use those parts. I know the control horn attach in
            the tail was changed, and the aileron linkage. Is there anything else I
            should be on the look out for?

            Thanks for your help. --Joel
          • snaproll@cableone.net
            Hi Joel, I remember reading a couple of years ago about a Cricket that had broken up due to aerodynamic flutter. It seems that the Heintz kit control linkages
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 3 4:04 PM
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              Hi Joel,

              I remember reading a couple of years ago about a Cricket that had broken up due
              to aerodynamic flutter. It seems that the Heintz kit control linkages were made
              of a different material than what Mr Columban had used in the original design and
              it was felt that the difference in stiffness of the materials was the primary
              factor in this crash.

              That being said, like with your LongEze (and my VariEze) we find that just
              because something is a deviation from the designer's original plans doesn't
              necessarily make it deadly. In looking at the flutter issue, there can be
              multiple causes for it and it could have been something as simple as a minor
              difference (read... builder variance, which exists in all homebuilt aircraft) in
              the airfoils or maybe some slop in the control system. Unfortunately, post crash
              investigations are never perfect.

              If I could find a Cricket kit cheap I would build it with no fear whatsoever, I
              would just get a set of Cri-Cri plans and change the control rods back to the
              original material just to be on the safe side. As far as the spar goes, Heintz
              moved up to the next size because of material availability here in the US and
              Canada and should have no detrimental effect.

              I personally wouldn't be afraid of a Cricket kit. Build it light, strong and
              true. Cut no corners and make sure that your controls have absolutely zero slop
              in them, then go flying.

              I would love to get hold of a set of plans and build one myself... haven't been
              able to so far. Still looking.

              TJ Johnson
              VariEze N25TB


              On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:32 , Joel Ventura <ventura@...> sent:

              >
              >Dear Dr. David Dorian:
              >
              >I have a Heintz Cricket kit, so I hope you do not have to pronounce me
              >dead some day. My plan was to build this kit when I finish my current
              >project (a Longeze), but make all the significant changes necessary to
              >conform to the Colomban plans. Now, it is my understanding that the
              >plans that come with the Cricket kit from Heintz are the original CRICRI
              >plans from Colomban, and from all indications I can see on the plans
              >they are. However, in your last post you mention the "Heintz deadly
              >drawings". Do you know something I do not about these plans? I did
              >notice that some parts in the kit do not conform to the plans, so I
              >assumed that this is where Heintz deviated from them.
              >
              >I know the wing spars in the kit do not conform to the plans, but they
              >are close in strength, and there is a very large safety factor in that
              >spar, so I plan to use those parts. I know the control horn attach in
              >the tail was changed, and the aileron linkage. Is there anything else I
              >should be on the look out for?
              >
              >Thanks for your help. --Joel
              >
            • kr2dream@aol.com
              Joel: I have a Cricket kit that I am in the process of changing back to the original design. The major change that Chris Heintz did was in the flaperon
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 3 4:39 PM
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                Joel:
                 
                I have a Cricket kit that I am in the process of changing back to the original design. The major change that Chris Heintz did was in the flaperon linkage. I have an excellent photo of the original next to what he provided in the Cricket.  The one in the Cricket WILL flutter and could kill you. I have a dear friend in the area with one that has crinkled two wings and fortunately survived. The change went from a large diameter aluminum tube in bearing blocks to a small diameter tube in drilled holes. If you want to see the difference, email me and I'll forward the photo. DO NOT build the Cricket as specified in the kit! The base plans supplied by Zenair are the CriCri drawings translated in english with supplements for the changes by Zenair. The construction manual is the basic manual translated from French and is mostly describing how to make the tools and fixtures.
                 
                Bob Lasecki
                Chicago (with a valid serial number)
              • Neville Hay
                I too have a Cricket and it has been flying for two years. It is built from Heintz plans but all the Notes and drawings for construction to the kit
                Message 7 of 16 , Mar 3 6:21 PM
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                  I too have a Cricket and it  has been flying for two years. It is built from  Heintz plans but all the Notes and drawings for construction to the kit specification have been eliminated. 
                  As I was starting to get interested in the CirCri I was lucky enough to meet Howard Josephsen of LAX and also David Doiron. Those meetings probably saved my life. Soon after that meeting I attended a course of Aircraft Accident Investigation at USC in Los Angeles. Learning's from that course reinforced the danger of 'kit plan' construction and the under engineering of the modifications employed to speed construction. Do not step outside the plans or construction manual. It will kill you.
                  Metals used in ZK LBW are of American spec.,( that's what is available here,)  which is a little heavier, but also a little stronger too- although strength is not a problem.
                  It is one great aircraft to fly and a real crowd puller but unlike a B747 the in-flight service is poor.
                  Buy the plans from Michel he is a real French gentleman and deserves to get the royalties for designing such a unique aircraft. As I have said I did not buy from plans him but have recompensed him in other ways.
                  Neville Hay. New Zealand
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 1:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [CriCri] Here we go again! eBay 4532122799 - Cricket Plans

                  Joel:
                   
                  I have a Cricket kit that I am in the process of changing back to the original design. The major change that Chris Heintz did was in the flaperon linkage. I have an excellent photo of the original next to what he provided in the Cricket.  The one in the Cricket WILL flutter and could kill you. I have a dear friend in the area with one that has crinkled two wings and fortunately survived. The change went from a large diameter aluminum tube in bearing blocks to a small diameter tube in drilled holes. If you want to see the difference, email me and I'll forward the photo. DO NOT build the Cricket as specified in the kit! The base plans supplied by Zenair are the CriCri drawings translated in english with supplements for the changes by Zenair. The construction manual is the basic manual translated from French and is mostly describing how to make the tools and fixtures.
                   
                  Bob Lasecki
                  Chicago (with a valid serial number)

                • Graham Allan
                  Al, The Cricri plans are not in French, they are in English, as are the construction manuals. The only people who get French language drawings and manuals, are
                  Message 8 of 16 , Mar 3 9:57 PM
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                    Al,

                    The Cricri plans are not in French, they are in English, as are the
                    construction manuals. The only people who get French language drawings and
                    manuals, are the French.
                    The drawings are fantastic. Alot of them are 1:1 scale, and the amount of
                    information he has managed to pack into a piece of paper has to be seen to
                    be believed.
                    Hope this helps.

                    Regards
                    Graham Allan

                    >From: "Al Doyle" <alldoyle@...>
                    >Reply-To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [CriCri] Re: Here we go again! eBay 4532122799 - Cricket Plans
                    >Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 23:28:58 -0000
                    >
                    >
                    >Guys:
                    >This brings up a fairly important point...
                    >I've wanted a set of Cri-Cri plans for
                    >years, but haven't made the effort to contact
                    >Colomban because plans in French would be
                    >useless to me. I don't speak French, and I'm
                    >apprehensive about missing some important
                    >note on the drawings. The Cricket seemed to
                    >be my only option.
                    >
                    >Or, are Cri-Cri drawings so simple that even
                    >I could understand them, and build the original
                    >plane properly?
                    >
                    > The second of two turbine engines I'd like to
                    >use is currently under construction. See ebay
                    >item 5956856855 (2/20/05)
                    >
                    >Al Doyle
                    >
                    >--- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, W. David Doiron <DDoiron@c...> wrote:
                    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >-----
                    > > The following message is forwarded to you by W. David Doiron
                    ><DDoiron@c...>
                    > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >-----
                    > >
                    > > "What is the license number from Michel Colomban for this set of
                    >plans. Thanks...David Doiron"
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >David,
                    > > >The serial was blanked out when they were scanned. The plans are
                    >for US people only, since Mr. Colomban is not selling the plans here.
                    > > >To bid or purchase this item, go to:
                    > > >4532122799 Mar-08-
                    >05
                    > > >Cricket Plans Set
                    > > >Thank you,
                    > > >kenamt
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Well, here we go again. Some people think it is OK for THEM to
                    >steal,
                    > > and that the stolen plans would not be taken to someplace where
                    >Michel IS selling them...
                    > > Of course not...
                    > > Besides, if they really are the CRICKET set with Heintz deadly
                    >drawings,
                    > > anybody who builds that version has a good chance of killing
                    >themselves.
                    > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > > W. David DOIRON <DDoiron"at"cox.net>
                    > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Need more speed? Get Xtra JetStream @ http://xtra.co.nz/jetstream
                  • Adrian Pilling
                    HI Bob, Could you send me a copy of the photos please to adrian@zanet.co.za Kind Regards Adrian Pilling 016-3721189 / 082-8511071 Vaal Dam Properties Your Vaal
                    Message 9 of 16 , Mar 3 10:53 PM
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                      HI Bob,

                       

                      Could you send me a copy of the photos please to adrian@...

                       

                      Kind Regards

                       

                           Adrian Pilling

                                 016-3721189 / 082-8511071

                      Vaal Dam Properties

                                    Your Vaal Dam Expert

                      --------------------------------------------------------

                      For investment properties on the Vaal Dam go to

                       www.vaaldam.co.za

                      For the finest marina on the Vaal Dam go to

                       www.bayshore.co.za

                      --------------------------------------------------------

                       


                      From: kr2dream@... [mailto:kr2dream@...]
                      Sent: 04 March 2005 02:40 AM
                      To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [CriCri] Here we go again! eBay 4532122799 - Cricket Plans

                       

                      Joel:

                       

                      I have a Cricket kit that I am in the process of changing back to the original design. The major change that Chris Heintz did was in the flaperon linkage. I have an excellent photo of the original next to what he provided in the Cricket.  The one in the Cricket WILL flutter and could kill you. I have a dear friend in the area with one that has crinkled two wings and fortunately survived. The change went from a large diameter aluminum tube in bearing blocks to a small diameter tube in drilled holes. If you want to see the difference, email me and I'll forward the photo. DO NOT build the Cricket as specified in the kit! The base plans supplied by Zenair are the CriCri drawings translated in english with supplements for the changes by Zenair. The construction manual is the basic manual translated from French and is mostly describing how to make the tools and fixtures.

                       

                      Bob Lasecki

                      Chicago (with a valid serial number)



                    • Andyrob400@aol.com
                      Dear Al, Msr Colomban will sell you an excellent set of plans and manuals in English. This also has the slight added advantage of being safe, not a cobbled
                      Message 10 of 16 , Mar 4 8:03 AM
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                        Dear Al,
                            Msr Colomban will sell you an excellent set of plans and manuals in English. This also has the slight added advantage of being safe, not a cobbled together machine called the cricket, as David says it is not safe. I wouldnt use it as a radio controlled model!!
                      • Rob
                        Would it be possible to add the images of the differences between the Micheal Colomban original built aircraft, and the Heinz Modified components, to the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Mar 5 11:27 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Would it be possible to add the images of the differences between the
                          Micheal Colomban original built aircraft, and the Heinz Modified
                          components, to the images folder of our lovely cri cri group??
                        • daryl pfister
                          I also am interested in the revisions required to retro fix Zenair to CRICRI. Please send photos. Also, does anyone have info on the single engine CRICRI?? I
                          Message 12 of 16 , Mar 6 1:49 PM
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                            I also am interested in the revisions required to retro fix
                            Zenair to CRICRI. Please send photos.

                            Also, does anyone have info on the single engine CRICRI??

                            I would like to explore a single engine, dual pod mounted
                            prop version.

                            Thanks


                            --- Adrian Pilling <adrian@...> wrote:
                            > HI Bob,
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Could you send me a copy of the photos please to
                            > adrian@...
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Kind Regards
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Adrian Pilling
                            >
                            > 016-3721189 / 082-8511071
                            >
                            > Vaal Dam Properties
                            >
                            > Your Vaal Dam Expert
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > For investment properties on the Vaal Dam go to
                            >
                            > <http://www.vaaldam.co.za> www.vaaldam.co.za
                            >
                            > For the finest marina on the Vaal Dam go to
                            >
                            > <http://www.bayshore.co.za> www.bayshore.co.za
                            >
                            > --------------------------------------------------------
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > _____
                            >
                            > From: kr2dream@... [mailto:kr2dream@...]
                            > Sent: 04 March 2005 02:40 AM
                            > To: CriCri@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [CriCri] Here we go again! eBay 4532122799 -
                            > Cricket Plans
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Joel:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I have a Cricket kit that I am in the process of changing
                            > back to the
                            > original design. The major change that Chris Heintz did
                            > was in the flaperon
                            > linkage. I have an excellent photo of the original next
                            > to what he provided
                            > in the Cricket. The one in the Cricket WILL flutter and
                            > could kill you. I
                            > have a dear friend in the area with one that has crinkled
                            > two wings and
                            > fortunately survived. The change went from a large
                            > diameter aluminum tube in
                            > bearing blocks to a small diameter tube in drilled holes.
                            > If you want to see
                            > the difference, email me and I'll forward the photo. DO
                            > NOT build the
                            > Cricket as specified in the kit! The base plans supplied
                            > by Zenair are the
                            > CriCri drawings translated in english with supplements
                            > for the changes by
                            > Zenair. The construction manual is the basic manual
                            > translated from French
                            > and is mostly describing how to make the tools and
                            > fixtures.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Bob Lasecki
                            >
                            > Chicago (with a valid serial number)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            >
                            >
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                          • Rob
                            I too am interested in a single engine cri cri, from what i understand, Mr colomban original idea was for the cri to be a single engined aircraft. would be
                            Message 13 of 16 , Mar 6 11:37 PM
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                              I too am interested in a single engine cri cri, from what i
                              understand, Mr colomban original idea was for the cri to be a single
                              engined aircraft. would be interesting to find out if he still has
                              some original drawings of this idea? and if would be willing to
                              resurect it!

                              My thinking is along the lines of a Rotax 227 or bigger installed in
                              the nose, with drive shafts turning 2 propellors in a similar
                              configuration as is the cri cri now.

                              i read an artical not to long ago, where somone had installed 2
                              modified Rotax 227 engines on a cri. and was capable of out climbing
                              with a higher cruise speed than a Cessna Cardinal on ONE engine!
                            • jc56au
                              ... ... Love the idea but my weight + one of those Russian 55 lb 0/0 pilot extraction systems may be a bit much. Experts may care to comment when you
                              Message 14 of 16 , Mar 7 5:42 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In CriCri@yahoogroups.com, "Rob" <pamuva@t...> wrote:
                                <snip>
                                > i read an artical not to long ago, where somone had installed 2
                                > modified Rotax 227 engines on a cri. and was capable of out climbing
                                > with a higher cruise speed than a Cessna Cardinal on ONE engine!

                                Love the idea but my weight + one of those Russian 55 lb 0/0 pilot
                                extraction systems may be a bit much. Experts may care to comment when
                                you will need one.
                              • W. David Doiron
                                In , on 03/07/05 ... He discovered that the reliability of the bigger 2-stroke engine was no better than the small ones. With the
                                Message 15 of 16 , Mar 7 1:40 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  In <d0h0bk+8tp1@...>, on 03/07/05
                                  at 07:37 AM, "Rob" <pamuva@...> said:


                                  >I too am interested in a single engine CriCri, from what i understand,
                                  >Mr Colomban original idea was for the CriCri to be a single engined
                                  >aircraft.

                                  He discovered that the reliability of the bigger 2-stroke engine was no better
                                  than the small ones. With the twin, if you lose 1, you still have the other.
                                  With the single, you are SOL.
                                  When you go to 4-stroke, the weight just about doubles,
                                  same for non-direct drive props.
                                  For CriCri size aircraft, it is a cul de sac.


                                  >i read an artical not to long ago, where somone had installed 2 modified
                                  >Rotax 227 engines on a cri. and was capable of out climbing with a higher
                                  >cruise speed than a Cessna Cardinal on ONE engine!

                                  That article was a fabrication. I have inspected that aircraft myself and
                                  it was not airworthy. Red Morris tried to do a test flight on it, and had to do
                                  an emergency landing before the nose shook apart. It was permanently
                                  damaged and last I heard was in a museum.

                                  REMEMBER: any single cylinder engine over 15 hp has
                                  too much vibration for CriCri !!!!


                                  bon chance...David
                                  -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  W. David DOIRON <DDoiron"at"cox.net>
                                  -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                • W David Doiron
                                  In , on 03/07/05 ... W David Doiron
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 2, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In <20050307215129.WLFU13104.fed1rmmtao07.cox.net@...>, on 03/07/05
                                    at 02:40 PM, W. David Doiron <DDoiron@...> said:


                                    >In <d0h0bk+8tp1@...>, on 03/07/05
                                    > at 07:37 AM, "Rob" <pamuva@...> said:


                                    >>I too am interested in a single engine CriCri, from what i understand,
                                    >>Mr Colomban original idea was for the CriCri to be a single engined
                                    >>aircraft.

                                    >He discovered that the reliability of the bigger 2-stroke engine was no
                                    >better than the small ones. With the twin, if you lose 1, you still have
                                    >the other. With the single, you are SOL.
                                    >When you go to 4-stroke, the weight just about doubles,
                                    >same for non-direct drive props.
                                    >For CriCri size aircraft, it is a cul de sac.


                                    >>i read an artical not to long ago, where somone had installed 2 modified
                                    >>Rotax 227 engines on a cri. and was capable of out climbing with a higher
                                    >>cruise speed than a Cessna Cardinal on ONE engine!

                                    >That article was a fabrication. I have inspected that aircraft myself and
                                    > it was not airworthy. Red Morris tried to do a test flight on it, and
                                    >had to do an emergency landing before the nose shook apart. It was
                                    >permanently damaged and last I heard was in a museum.

                                    >REMEMBER: any single cylinder engine over 15 hp has
                                    >too much vibration for CriCri !!!!


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                                    W David Doiron <DDoiron@...>
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