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Re: Expelled

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  • whatiscreation
    I have watched the movie too and I think it just hits the tip of the ice. Evolution is there to brainwash you to accept the one world religion that Satan has
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 31, 2008
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      I have watched the movie too and I think it just hits the tip of the
      ice. Evolution is there to brainwash you to accept the one world
      religion that Satan has plans for

      The only thing I disagree with the film is the "ID" movement. I think
      that biblical creationism explains much more. ID does not identify a
      creater that is what is bad about it.
    • Steve Wolfe
      I m the staff advisor for Campus Crusade for Christ at the community college where I teach. We are planning to show Expelled in our large auditorium on campus
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 31, 2008
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        I'm the staff advisor for Campus Crusade for Christ at the community college
        where I teach. We are planning to show Expelled in our large auditorium on
        campus in February, to coincide with the 200th anniversary of Darwin's birth
        and the 150th anniversary of the publication of the Origin of Species. We
        are also going to show some other videos that month, which may include The
        Case for a Creator, Unlocking the Mystery of Life, and Icons of Evolution.
        I encourage others to arrange public viewings of creation/ID videos that
        month. We have had up to 200 people attend our previous creation events on
        campus.



        Illustra Media (which produces all of the above except for Expelled) allows
        its videos to be shown without a license as long as no admission is charged
        or offering taken and the entire video, including credits, must run.



        I believe that to show Expelled requires a license, which can be ordered
        through Wingclips Cinema at http://www.wingclipscinema.com/



        Steve Wolfe

        Creation Education Ministries

        http://cem.nwcreation.net <http://cem.nwcreation.net/>





        _____

        From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Chris Ashcraft
        Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:22 PM
        To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Expelled



        Indeed - a compelling documentary that should be viewed by all high school
        and college age students. I would encourage everyone to consider donating a
        copy to a Christian school library in your area. The DVD was just
        released...

        Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
        http://creationwiki
        <http://creationwiki.org/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed>
        .org/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed

        I arranged for the entire senior class of Cedar Park Christian School (100+
        students) to see it in a theatre last spring. My Creation Apologetics class
        is currently watching it - we actually saw the first 30 minutes of it today.


        We have the video available through our webstore - as an individual title
        and as part of a documentary special.
        http://store. <http://store.nwcreation.net/exnoinal.html>
        nwcreation.net/exnoinal.html


        Christopher W. Ashcraft
        Northwest Creation Network
        http://nwcreation. <http://nwcreation.net> net
        CreationWiki
        http://creationwiki <http://creationwiki.org> .org



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      • Charles Creager Jr
        My copy of the DVD came last week on my birth day. Good timing. One of the things that I find amazing is that some of the people interviewed; among the victims
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 31, 2008
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          My copy of the DVD came last week on my birth day. Good timing.



          One of the things that I find amazing is that some of the people
          interviewed; among the victims of attack; were neither creationists nor ID
          proponents, but Evolutionists who simply treated ID fairly. Could you
          imagine what would happen they treated Young Earth Creation Science Fairly?




          ---- Charles Creager Jr.



          _____

          From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Stephen Jackson
          Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 1:39 AM
          To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [CreationTalk] Expelled



          I have just watched Ben Stein's movie Expelled: No Intelligence
          Allowed. I recommend it. Evolution is a greater evil than even I had
          suspected, and I am a former evolutionist.

          Stephen





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        • Stephen Jackson
          I understand your concern, but YEC is a subset of ID. One must accept ID in order to be a YEC in the same sense that it is necessary to be in England before
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2008
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            I understand your concern, but YEC is a subset of ID. One must accept
            ID in order to be a YEC in the same sense that it is necessary to be in
            England before it is possible to be in London.

            Stephen




            whatiscreation wrote:
            >
            > I have watched the movie too and I think it just hits the tip of the
            > ice. Evolution is there to brainwash you to accept the one world
            > religion that Satan has plans for
            >
            > The only thing I disagree with the film is the "ID" movement. I think
            > that biblical creationism explains much more. ID does not identify a
            > creater that is what is bad about it.
            >
          • Richard
            Re: comment on Expelled     The only thing I disagree with the film is the ID movement. I think that biblical creationism explains much
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2008
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              Re: comment on "Expelled"
               
              < begin quote >
               
              The only thing I disagree with the film is the "ID" movement. I think
              that biblical creationism explains much more. ID does not identify a
              creater that is what is bad about it.

              < end quote >
               
              "Expelled" can't push a religious theme, but to open doors
              for dialog (not compromise), re: Origins-of-Life; thus its
              presentation of ID, or it'd not be able to be shown in public school
              settings (where it is hard enough to teach non-religious-referenced
              ID, as some mis-construe that as "pushing religion" (apparently
              they don't know the difference).
               
              Richard in Louisiana




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            • howard motz
              ... From: Derek Yesucevitz Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008,
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 1, 2008
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                --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Derek Yesucevitz <dyesucevitz@...> wrote:

                From: Derek Yesucevitz <dyesucevitz@...>
                Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled
                To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 8:59 PM






                >The Bible is clear as to who the Creator is...ID refuses to identify the >Creator with His Creation...that is not right. It is a compromise..
                >Derek
                    Your uncompromising position is commendable, but.
                    Do you believe current science and religion should be merged as one?
                    Do you believe children should be forced to make a decision for Christ?  Or should the goodness of God lead them to salvation?
                    How do you witness? Do you go around the streets hitting people over the head with a Bible? Or do you first get to know them and let them see
                the sample of Christ in you?     If your just thinking theoretically, then that is one thing.  But if  above is what your implying. Then I think, you need to rethink your religious stand.                                              
                                                                                              Howie

                >











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              • Dr. Robert A. Herrmann
                Your statement about ID is incorrect. There are two IDs. RID the Dembski etc., form does not even point to a supernatural god. However, there is a specific
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 2, 2008
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                  Your statement about ID is incorrect. There are two IDs. RID the Dembski etc., form does not even point to a supernatural god.
                  However, there is a specific GID-model interpretation that does point to the Creator as Biblically described. I am somewhat surprised that this mistake is still being made.

                  Dr. Bob


                  From: whatiscreation
                  Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:12 PM
                  To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled


                  I have watched the movie too and I think it just hits the tip of the
                  ice. Evolution is there to brainwash you to accept the one world
                  religion that Satan has plans for

                  The only thing I disagree with the film is the "ID" movement. I think
                  that biblical creationism explains much more. ID does not identify a
                  creater that is what is bad about it.





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Dr. Robert A. Herrmann
                  In my posting on the dialectic, I mentioned that my paper The Two Meanings of Modern Intelligent Design will be published soon . Indeed , it will be
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 2, 2008
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                    In my posting on the dialectic, I mentioned that my paper "The Two Meanings of Modern Intelligent Design" will be published soon . Indeed , it will be published in the Journal of Creation 23(1). This paper compares the two theories, RID and GID. I have been posting GID concepts on the network for years, but this paper should help individuals comprehend more aspects of GID. Now the physical part of GID, the GGU-model, can explicitly generate a universe, the Earth, the Flood etc. in the exact manner as Biblically described. It rationally establishes all aspects of basic special creation. It rationally upholds all of the original ICR creation-science notions. It gives mechanisms that yield these results and this has known since 1979. (RID has no mechanisms.) The first paper I published on these facts was in 1982, and, in 1985-1986, the first four C. R. S. Quarterly papers on these facts appeared. One should not make general statements about any notion without more complete knowledge. It is understandable that such facts may be new to some. The creation wiki does contain information on GID and the GGU-model.

                    Dr. Bob

                    From: Derek Yesucevitz
                    Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:59 PM
                    To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled


                    I disagree. Biblical creation is as OLD as the Bible and the creation. Since we know the Bible to be the Word of God and Creation is absolutely true. We know the Creator is the Word of God. The 'nameless' creator of ID is not a subset...but a perversion of Biblical Creation not wanting to identify the creator. So, in that fact, it is certainly NO subset of creation. biblical creation is just that...The Creator, The Word of God. Plain and simple. I think ID is a 'nice idea' but it is like saying 'believe in god' and you will be better off. I don't agree. The Bible is clear as to who the Creator is...ID refuses to identify the Creator with His Creation...that is not right. It is a compromise...
                    Derek

                    --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Stephen Jackson <swjackson@...> wrote:
                    From: Stephen Jackson <swjackson@...>
                    Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled
                    To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 11:45 AM

                    I understand your concern, but YEC is a subset of ID. One must accept

                    ID in order to be a YEC in the same sense that it is necessary to be in

                    England before it is possible to be in London.

                    Stephen

                    whatiscreation wrote:

                    >

                    > I have watched the movie too and I think it just hits the tip of the

                    > ice. Evolution is there to brainwash you to accept the one world

                    > religion that Satan has plans for

                    >

                    > The only thing I disagree with the film is the "ID" movement. I think

                    > that biblical creationism explains much more. ID does not identify a

                    > creater that is what is bad about it.

                    >











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                  • Steve Matthews
                    I agree. Why would we ever be willing to compromise or hush the fact the Jesus Christ THE WORD was in the Beginning and all things originated from the triune
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 2, 2008
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                      I agree. Why would we ever be willing to compromise or hush the fact the
                      Jesus Christ THE WORD was in the Beginning and all things originated from
                      the triune God?

                      ID makes little sense without any statement of Who God is and that is the
                      MOST important concept for ALL of humanity. I shout this from the highest
                      hills and NEVER suppress this.



                      The enemies of Jesus Christ have always been there and are always going to
                      attack and destroy those of us in the church. That is why we must be armed
                      properly.

                      But we have no need of compromise and subjecting what we know to be true to
                      a watered down format.



                      Let us all be valiant soldiers for Jesus Christ and tell the truth that He
                      is the ONLY way to God the Creator everywhere, everytime.





                      From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Derek Yesucevitz
                      Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:00 PM
                      To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled



                      I disagree. Biblical creation is as OLD as the Bible and the creation. Since
                      we know the Bible to be the Word of God and Creation is absolutely true. We
                      know the Creator is the Word of God. The 'nameless' creator of ID is not a
                      subset...but a perversion of Biblical Creation not wanting to identify the
                      creator. So, in that fact, it is certainly NO subset of creation. biblical
                      creation is just that...The Creator, The Word of God. Plain and simple. I
                      think ID is a 'nice idea' but it is like saying 'believe in god' and you
                      will be better off. I don't agree. The Bible is clear as to who the Creator
                      is...ID refuses to identify the Creator with His Creation...that is not
                      right. It is a compromise...
                      Derek

                      --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Stephen Jackson <swjackson@...
                      <mailto:swjackson%40windstream.net> > wrote:
                      From: Stephen Jackson <swjackson@...
                      <mailto:swjackson%40windstream.net> >
                      Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled
                      To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CreationTalk%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 11:45 AM

                      I understand your concern, but YEC is a subset of ID. One must accept

                      ID in order to be a YEC in the same sense that it is necessary to be in

                      England before it is possible to be in London.

                      Stephen

                      whatiscreation wrote:

                      >

                      > I have watched the movie too and I think it just hits the tip of the

                      > ice. Evolution is there to brainwash you to accept the one world

                      > religion that Satan has plans for

                      >

                      > The only thing I disagree with the film is the "ID" movement. I think

                      > that biblical creationism explains much more. ID does not identify a

                      > creater that is what is bad about it.

                      >











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                    • Temlakos
                      Bob: Are you an editor on CreationWiki? If so, if anyone reading our Intelligent Design article would have a doubt in his mind about the GID and GGU model
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 2, 2008
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                        Bob:

                        Are you an editor on CreationWiki? If so, if anyone reading our
                        Intelligent Design article would have a doubt in his mind about the GID
                        and GGU model pointing to a Creator, I would urge you to step in and
                        correct the record. (And if you're not yet an editor, I would encourage
                        you to apply.)

                        Temlakos

                        Dr. Robert A. Herrmann wrote:
                        > Your statement about ID is incorrect. There are two IDs. RID the Dembski etc., form does not even point to a supernatural god.
                        > However, there is a specific GID-model interpretation that does point to the Creator as Biblically described. I am somewhat surprised that this mistake is still being made.
                        >
                        > Dr. Bob
                        >
                        >
                        > From: whatiscreation
                        > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 9:12 PM
                        > To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled
                        >
                        >
                        > I have watched the movie too and I think it just hits the tip of the
                        > ice. Evolution is there to brainwash you to accept the one world
                        > religion that Satan has plans for
                        >
                        > The only thing I disagree with the film is the "ID" movement. I think
                        > that biblical creationism explains much more. ID does not identify a
                        > creater that is what is bad about it.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > ============================================
                        > CreationTalk email listserv
                        > Northwest Creation Network http://nwcreation.net/
                        > CreationWiki http://creationwiki.org/
                        > ============================================Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • steelville
                        It s more like ID is a subset of YEC. Young Earth Creationists, indeed the Bible itself, has always made ID-type arguments that make the case for a
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 2, 2008
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                          It's more like ID is a subset of YEC.

                          Young Earth Creationists, indeed the Bible itself, has always made
                          "ID-type" arguments that make the case for "a Designer" of the Creation. "

                          ---Alan
                          +------------------+

                          Example verses:

                          Psalms 19:1 ¶<<To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.>> The heavens
                          declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

                          Psalms 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully
                          made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
                          15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and
                          curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
                          16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy
                          book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned,
                          when as yet there was none of them.

                          Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my
                          ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
                          10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth
                          not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud,
                          that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
                          11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not
                          return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it
                          shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
                        • howard motz
                            Thanks for your answer Derek. Sorry if I come across like the grumpy old man that I am. My only excuse is my only companion, (dog) fails to let me know when
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 3, 2008
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                              Thanks for your answer Derek. Sorry if I come across like the grumpy old man that
                            I am. My only excuse is my only companion, (dog) fails to let me know when I am being grumpy. LOL
                              I.D. is not religion.  Neither is belief in a Creator religion. At least not according to the good, original meaning of the word. Which admittedly has changed in the last couple hundred years. Changed for the worse. As mankind has slowly backslide from
                            the natural light; "that lights every man that comes into the world", John Chp.1.  Our American fore fathers believed,  a Creator was "self evident". As it is recorded in the U. S. constitution. 
                              The old definition of religion was a (formulated discipline, to get back in accord, or good
                            standing with that Creator.)  As mankind has become more hardened of heart. The definition has come to include a dedicated, zealous belief in God the Creator. As if it takes discipline, to even believe He exist.
                              If I.D. where to mix the Word of God, with the study of nature. It would in deed be religious. Because the Word of God didn't come from the study of Nature. If I. D. discoveries, just happen to coincided with parts of the Bible. So what?
                            The Big Bang coincides with the Bible's, "In the beginning." Doesn't mean Big Bang is religious.  
                              I asked about merging science and religion and how they should be taught, because. If it is taught in the setting of the public schools. The door is opened to as much abuse as we
                            are now suffering; from the teaching of pure materialistic, cause and effect. Which suggest
                            that their isn't any need for a creator; seen in the natural world. There fore their is no need
                            to entertain the idea of a Creator and the consequences of his existence.
                              The existence of a creator can be identified through the study of observable nature.
                            That isn't really religion.  (at least not the uncorrupted definition of religion).
                              The creator identifying himself to mankind, through holy men and women. That  is religion.
                              That is how I think it should be defined.                                    
                                                                                                     Howie
                                                                                                     Student and Disciple of Christ.





                            --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Derek Yesucevitz <dyesucevitz@...> wrote:

                            From: Derek Yesucevitz <dyesucevitz@...>
                            Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled
                            To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Sunday, November 2, 2008, 10:26 AM






                            Well, I almost take your backlash the wrong way...because I believe you have completely misunderstood my response. I am against the ID movement on the sole grounds it removes the identity of the Creator. Last time I checked my Bible it clearly states Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." John 14:6 "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man cometh to the father but by me". Was the words of Christ, The Name of Christ, as Redeemer and Creator are Who He is. Romans 1 is clear as to how they remove the creator from His creation. Unless Zeus is creator? Now, on to the personal questions you asked...

                            1. Do I believe current science and religion should be merged as one?
                            Answer: Well, it depends on HOW you define 'current science'. I believe the coming one world government and world religion will combine it all just fine. I believe where the Bible touches upon science it should be taught, where the bible is attacked by 'so called' science, it should be defended. Should man's ideas merge and corrupt the Word of God, NO.

                            2. Do I believe Children should be forced to make a decision for Christ?
                            Answer: Should a man be forced to love his wife? Romans 10:10 "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."
                            So, you can force people to make decisions all day long...and that is what they are...false converts. That is the main problem in today's compromising churches. II Timothy 3:5 says "having a FORM of godliness but DENYING the power thereof, from such turn away". So, no one can be FORCED to accept Christ. They can be forced into 'making a decision' and then they become a two fold child of Hell when they think they are saved and have NO power in their life...that is when compromise happens...and the church accepts such. Jesus even asked if he would find faith when he returns.

                            3. Or should the goodness of God lead them to salvation?
                            Answer: Show me any other way a person can be saved. My Bible says in Romans 3:11 'there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God." Jesus came to SEEK and save that which was lost. Only...and I mean only the goodness and Grace of God can lead someone to salvation.

                            4. How do you witness?
                            Answer: They way Christ commanded us. I try to live a godly consecrated life. But, I also obey the Great Commission of the church and I go door knocking with church, friends, and family. My city alone has over 100,000 people and no soul winning churches but ours (25 miles away from my home). I tell people the way Christ did...they are lost in need of the Savior. I use the law the way Paul, Stephen, and Christ did...as a school master...to show men their sinful state. The law was intended to break us and Christ to mend us. By exposing a person's sinful state...they see themselves in the mirror of God's Word...and cannot be anything but guilty. That is what Romans 3:19 is all about. And when you use God's law for its intended purpose...it does exactly what it is suppose to do...cut through the conscious and convict the heart. I don't typically hit people with a Bible...although it is my weapon...lifestyle evangelism is NOT what Christ commanded the Church
                            to do...but GO...GO...GO. If we just let our light shine...it only accomplishes one thing...they see you are different. And God gets that glory. But, Christ sent them out...two by two...and we do just as they did...knock doors and give the Gospel. Doors slammed, cursed out,...that is all fine and good. But, sitting around waiting for someone to 'come and asked what is so different' is like sitting in a fishing boat with book...waiting for fish to 'jump on-board'. It 'ain't happening'.
                            Theoretical. ..not sure what you meant by that as to what I stated...but, I stand firm in Christ...and there is NOTHING to rethink. I hope my above answers clarifies anything you misunderstood. Again, as a scientist by education and training...I stand strong on real science...but, anything that is afraid to declare the Glory of God, should be warned against as nothing but compromise. Call it what you will...if it refuses to identify Jehovah God/Jesus Christ...it should be condemned and avoided. If ID identifies the creator as Christ as the Bible does, that is one thing. however, that Name...is the power of God unto Salvation. Refusing to identify...cannot lead to anything healthy...it is pure compromise. If that is unclear...please let me know and I will try to clarify exactly what I mean...

                            Bottom line, is ID good, well, are other religions that point to 'other gods' good? I mean, at least they lead people to 'god'? Right?

                            ~Sincerely,
                            Derek

                            --- On Sat, 11/1/08, howard motz <howiemotz@yahoo. com> wrote:
                            From: howard motz <howiemotz@yahoo. com>
                            Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled
                            To: CreationTalk@ yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 10:02 PM

                            --- On Sat, 11/1/08, Derek Yesucevitz <dyesucevitz@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                            From: Derek Yesucevitz <dyesucevitz@ yahoo.com>

                            Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Re: Expelled

                            To: CreationTalk@ yahoogroups. com

                            Date: Saturday, November 1, 2008, 8:59 PM

                            >The Bible is clear as to who the Creator is...ID refuses to identify the >Creator with His Creation...that is not right. It is a compromise..

                            >Derek

                                Your uncompromising position is commendable, but.

                                Do you believe current science and religion should be merged as one?

                                Do you believe children should be forced to make a decision for Christ?  Or should the goodness of God lead them to salvation?

                                How do you witness? Do you go around the streets hitting people over the head with a Bible? Or do you first get to know them and let them see

                            the sample of Christ in you?     If your just thinking theoretically, then that is one thing.  But if  above is what your implying. Then I think, you need to rethink your religious stand.                                              

                                                                                                          Howie

                            >

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