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Re: [CreationTalk] Durupinar Site - Noah's Ark

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  • Chris Ashcraft
    The unusual geologic formations in this region are apparently the result of mudflows. Mudflows are a common of volcanic mountains which have risen to an
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 1, 2003

      Three other formations in the shape of the false Noah's Ark

      The unusual geologic formations in this region are apparently the result of mudflows. Mudflows are a common of volcanic mountains which have risen to an elevation that causes glaciation of the peak.  Subsequent eruptions or volcanic activity will melt the glacier and cause mass erosion. If the ark were buried under such a mudflow, it could possibly have been petrified beneath. However, mass human excavations are not likely in such a remote region, and if buried, its discovery may not occur unless exposed by a major erosion event. In any case, the included picture is very telling of the durupinar site. Although the shape popularized by Wyatt is very unusual, it is not unique to the region. There are other similar formations nearby and all are apparently the result of these solidified mudflows. The arrows in the photo point to similar boat shapes found in the topography. A much larger version of this picture can also be found at the following URL.

      http://www.noahsarksearch.com/SimmonsRobin/02.jpg

       



      Christopher W. Ashcraft

    • John Johnson
      To: Creation talk & Capstalk cc: John Baumgardner Responding to Lowell Baker s comment and Teno Groppi s challenge: The not a commercial venture slur about
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 1, 2003
        To: Creation talk & Capstalk
        cc: John Baumgardner

        Responding to Lowell Baker's comment and Teno Groppi's
        challenge:
        The "not a commercial venture" slur about
        John Baumgarndner seems twisted from Ron Wyatt's
        actual statement that John was afraid of losing his
        job, was the reason he renounced his earlier support
        for the site. According to John's own letter on:
        http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/BaumgardnerLetter.html
        "Ron's assertion that I take the position I do because
        I am afraid I will lose my job is a falsehood. I am
        very bold in my creationist convictions here."

        I am skeptical of this site but do not rule it out -
        I just note that the alleged evidence has evaporated.
        About 10 years ago we (CAPS) had Don Patten speak
        about
        this Durupinar site, and presented some strong
        evidence, and sold a video (which I still have to
        loan). Much of the evidence was first promoted by
        David Fasold, (who has since renounced this site
        http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html ) and then
        promoted by Ron Wyatt as follows:
        (1) metal was detected at regular intervals
        (now false) -
        John Baumgartner says he rejected these when
        he discovered they were detected using a "dowser"
        (2) measurements for the shape were close to the
        Biblical ones - could be explained by splaying
        out.
        Evaluation has rendered the differences too large.
        (3) "anchor stones" with holes in them for the ropes -
        this seemed positive, except the inscriptions are
        much more recent, and few other scientists
        supports that conclusion. (inconclusive)
        (4) Petrified wood discovered on site (now false)-
        John's letter: "Furthermore, the material Ron
        claims is petrified wood is nothing but igneous
        rock of basaltic composition."
        (5) Amusingly, there are "official" highway signs
        directing the tourists to Noah's ark site which
        seems to legitimize it. (this proves nothing)

        In short the evidence for this site being Noah's ark
        is weak at best, held by a few marginal supporters
        and now denied by its earliest proponents. The claims
        for regular metal detection, petrified wood and boat
        shape appear to be either error or fraud.

        Chris Aschcraft has included both positions on:
        http://www.nwcreation.net/wyattark.html and
        another site has both positions and good pictures on:
        http://www.noahsarksearch.com/durupinar.htm

        (The following note is my skeptical evaluation of Ron
        Wyatt's multitude of Biblically important
        "discoveries", not a personal attack)

        Two years ago I was exposed to a video and
        notebooks promoting Ron Wyatt's multitude of
        amazing discoveries, including the picture of the
        "Chariot wheel" under the Red Sea. I was
        initially only skeptical, but now I fear that it is
        all a chimera of fabrication, perhaps even believed
        to to be true by Ron Wyatt and his supporters, who
        seemed of sincere Christian character to all who
        met them. One of our elders (as well as myself) gave
        up any hope for Ron's credibility when he said he had
        discovered the blood of Christ from the cross, which
        had dripped on the ark of the covenant under Golgatha,
        and had it analyzed by a lab to have only half the
        number of chromosomes! These are absurd claims.

        The only claim made by his supporters with a shred
        of support is the claim that the Red Sea crossing by
        Moses was in the Gulf of Aquaba and that Mount Sinai
        is in the Arabian peninsula. This is highly unlikely,
        but we can debate that issue on its merits.

        For further analysis of Ron's claims by Gary Amirault
        and links see: http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/index.html

        John Johnson
        President, Creation Assoc. Puget Sound
        Mathematician

        --- Teno Groppi <tgroppi@...> wrote:
        >
        > >What is interesting is the Dr. Baumgardener was
        > 100% behind this site
        > >until Ron made it quite clear to him that he was
        > not going to make a
        > >commercial adventure out of the site.
        >
        > Can you give some evidence that:
        >
        > * Dr. Baumgardner was 100% behind this site?
        >
        > * That Ron "Indiana Jones" Wyatt was NOT going to
        > make a commercial venture
        > out of the site?
        >
        >
        > Here, there, or in the air!
        > Teno Groppi
        > God & Country Center
        > http://www.baptistlink.com/godandcountry/index.html
        > REVAMPED AND REVISED - NEW MATERIAL


        =====
        John N. Johnson
        mathematician
      • Lowell Baker
        I will go back to my original stance many months ago, the site needs a whole lot of new work. I do find it interesting that just down the road, the local
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 2, 2003
          I will go back to my original stance many months ago, the site needs a whole
          lot of new work. I do find it interesting that just down the road, the local
          city's name means City of Eight. The overall valley is called the Valley of
          Eight. The Kurds slew all the locals so their is very little local oral
          history left. If you follow the river down from this area, you have the
          start of written History and the first city/state townships. You cannot
          prove it, but I in my opinion, I think Ron was right. As for the Red Sea
          Crossing site, there is a new DVD/Tape out from the group that is behind the
          Exodus Case book. They have since found chariot wheels now, on both sides of
          the Gulf of Aqaba, same style and down to a depth of both sides of 200 feet.
          Lowell

          -----Original Message-----
          From: John Johnson [mailto:jjohn1776@...]
          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:15 PM
          To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: johnrb@...; capstalk
          Subject: RE: [CreationTalk] Durupinar Site - Noah's Ark


          To: Creation talk & Capstalk
          cc: John Baumgardner

          Responding to Lowell Baker's comment and Teno Groppi's
          challenge:
          The "not a commercial venture" slur about
          John Baumgarndner seems twisted from Ron Wyatt's
          actual statement that John was afraid of losing his
          job, was the reason he renounced his earlier support
          for the site. According to John's own letter on:
          http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/BaumgardnerLetter.html
          "Ron's assertion that I take the position I do because
          I am afraid I will lose my job is a falsehood. I am
          very bold in my creationist convictions here."

          I am skeptical of this site but do not rule it out -
          I just note that the alleged evidence has evaporated.
          About 10 years ago we (CAPS) had Don Patten speak
          about
          this Durupinar site, and presented some strong
          evidence, and sold a video (which I still have to
          loan). Much of the evidence was first promoted by
          David Fasold, (who has since renounced this site
          http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.html ) and then
          promoted by Ron Wyatt as follows:
          (1) metal was detected at regular intervals
          (now false) -
          John Baumgartner says he rejected these when
          he discovered they were detected using a "dowser"
          (2) measurements for the shape were close to the
          Biblical ones - could be explained by splaying
          out.
          Evaluation has rendered the differences too large.
          (3) "anchor stones" with holes in them for the ropes -
          this seemed positive, except the inscriptions are
          much more recent, and few other scientists
          supports that conclusion. (inconclusive)
          (4) Petrified wood discovered on site (now false)-
          John's letter: "Furthermore, the material Ron
          claims is petrified wood is nothing but igneous
          rock of basaltic composition."
          (5) Amusingly, there are "official" highway signs
          directing the tourists to Noah's ark site which
          seems to legitimize it. (this proves nothing)

          In short the evidence for this site being Noah's ark
          is weak at best, held by a few marginal supporters
          and now denied by its earliest proponents. The claims
          for regular metal detection, petrified wood and boat
          shape appear to be either error or fraud.

          Chris Aschcraft has included both positions on:
          http://www.nwcreation.net/wyattark.html and
          another site has both positions and good pictures on:
          http://www.noahsarksearch.com/durupinar.htm

          (The following note is my skeptical evaluation of Ron
          Wyatt's multitude of Biblically important
          "discoveries", not a personal attack)

          Two years ago I was exposed to a video and
          notebooks promoting Ron Wyatt's multitude of
          amazing discoveries, including the picture of the
          "Chariot wheel" under the Red Sea. I was
          initially only skeptical, but now I fear that it is
          all a chimera of fabrication, perhaps even believed
          to to be true by Ron Wyatt and his supporters, who
          seemed of sincere Christian character to all who
          met them. One of our elders (as well as myself) gave
          up any hope for Ron's credibility when he said he had
          discovered the blood of Christ from the cross, which
          had dripped on the ark of the covenant under Golgatha,
          and had it analyzed by a lab to have only half the
          number of chromosomes! These are absurd claims.

          The only claim made by his supporters with a shred
          of support is the claim that the Red Sea crossing by
          Moses was in the Gulf of Aquaba and that Mount Sinai
          is in the Arabian peninsula. This is highly unlikely,
          but we can debate that issue on its merits.

          For further analysis of Ron's claims by Gary Amirault
          and links see: http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/index.html

          John Johnson
          President, Creation Assoc. Puget Sound
          Mathematician

          --- Teno Groppi <tgroppi@...> wrote:
          >
          > >What is interesting is the Dr. Baumgardener was
          > 100% behind this site
          > >until Ron made it quite clear to him that he was
          > not going to make a
          > >commercial adventure out of the site.
          >
          > Can you give some evidence that:
          >
          > * Dr. Baumgardner was 100% behind this site?
          >
          > * That Ron "Indiana Jones" Wyatt was NOT going to
          > make a commercial venture
          > out of the site?
          >
          >
          > Here, there, or in the air!
          > Teno Groppi
          > God & Country Center
          > http://www.baptistlink.com/godandcountry/index.html
          > REVAMPED AND REVISED - NEW MATERIAL


          =====
          John N. Johnson
          mathematician


          CreationTalk Discussion Group
          Creation Science Resource
          http://nwcreation.net/

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        • Teno Groppi
          ... I would love to see some *evidence* of this. The gulf differentiation was what got me interested in Wyatt s findings. However, as each fantastic claim got
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 2, 2003
            As for the Red Sea Crossing site, there is a new DVD/Tape out from the group that is behind the Exodus Case book. They have since found chariot wheels now, on both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba, same style and down to a depth of both sides of 200 feet. Lowell

                     I would love to see some *evidence* of this. The gulf differentiation was what got me interested in Wyatt's findings. However, as each fantastic claim got more unbelievable - well, each claim got more unbelievable.

            Here, there, or in the air!
            Teno Groppi
            God & Country Center
            http://www.baptistlink.com/godandcountry/index.html
            REVAMPED AND REVISED - NEW MATERIAL

          • Lowell Baker
            Where to buy the book: The Exodus Case, http://www.theexoduscase.net/. As for the video/DVD http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=V609 Lowell
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 3, 2003
              Where to buy the book: The Exodus Case, http://www.theexoduscase.net/.  As for the video/DVD http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=V609
               
              Lowell 
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Teno Groppi [mailto:tgroppi@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 1:12 PM
              To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [CreationTalk] Durupinar Site - Noah's Ark

              As for the Red Sea Crossing site, there is a new DVD/Tape out from the group that is behind the Exodus Case book. They have since found chariot wheels now, on both sides of the Gulf of Aqaba, same style and down to a depth of both sides of 200 feet. Lowell

                       I would love to see some *evidence* of this. The gulf differentiation was what got me interested in Wyatt's findings. However, as each fantastic claim got more unbelievable - well, each claim got more unbelievable.

              Here, there, or in the air!
              Teno Groppi
              God & Country Center
              http://www.baptistlink.com/godandcountry/index.html
              REVAMPED AND REVISED - NEW MATERIAL

              CreationTalk Discussion Group
              Creation Science Resource
              http://nwcreation.net/

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              CreationTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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