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Evolutionist Evidences Challenge!!! (Please Join)

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  • samson7x@nuwavenet.com
    I have issued a request in Origin Talk for each evolutionist there to list their three favorite evidences for evolution with up to 2 sources for each. I d like
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2002
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      I have issued a request in Origin Talk for each evolutionist there to list
      their three favorite evidences for evolution with up to 2 sources for each.
      I'd like for all of the creationists here to combine efforts with me, even if
      by personal e-mail and research and discuss these. Lets each pick a few of
      the topics to tackle and research the heck out of them and find the problems
      with these so called "evidences." We can then make a professional
      presentation by combining our findings in a letter of sorts, and picking
      someone, or having a volunteer to edit over them. We can then post the letter
      with source refernces and all and see how they stand up to that. What do you
      say? You all up to it? God bless.

      In Christ,
      JD
    • Charles Creager Jr.
      I m in. I have always found that such evidence actually interpretation of evidence. Interpretations the assume evolution and unformitarianism to star with.
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2002
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        I'm in. I have always found that such "evidence" actually interpretation of evidence. Interpretations the assume evolution and unformitarianism to star with.

        --- Charles Creager Jr.

        Ps: Bring them on. If they actually respond.

        samson7x@... wrote:

        I have issued a request in Origin Talk for each evolutionist there to list
        their three favorite evidences for evolution with up to 2 sources for each.
        I'd like for all of the creationists here to combine efforts with me, even if
        by personal e-mail and research and discuss these.  Lets each pick a few of
        the topics to tackle and research the heck out of them and find the problems
        with these so called "evidences."  We can then make a professional
        presentation by combining our findings in a letter of sorts, and picking
        someone, or having a volunteer to edit over them.  We can then post the letter
        with source refernces and all and see how they stand up to that.  What do you
        say?  You all up to it?  God bless.

        In Christ,
        JD

      • Chris Maddocks
        The idea of refuting the Evolutionist evidences is a good one. There are, however, points which you will need to bear in mind. 1. Evolutionists themselves
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2002
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          The idea of refuting the Evolutionist evidences is a good one.  There are, however, points which you will need to bear in mind.
           
          1.  Evolutionists themselves are not unanimous by any means; they are divided amongst themselves as to which variant theory is 'correct'.  That means you may successfully refute one brand of the theory, with many Evolutionists agreeing with you.  It may be better to go to the heart of the concept rather than to focus on specific evidences provided by individuals harbouring their varient pet theories.
           
          2. Evolutionary theory is changeable.  What is presented as 'evidence' now may not be in a few years, when the theories have themselves evolved, and can no longer accommodate certain interpretations of evidence.
           
          3.  Bear in mind that the Evolutionist will be expecting you to challenge his theories - why else would you be asking?  Your refutation will need to take into account points likely to be raised in a rejoinder; it would be worth looking at rejoinders made to other Creationists.  It is not likely that you will be making points the Evolutionists have not heard before; but if they are framed in the right way they may not be able to counter them.
           
          To provide a refutation at such a level necessary to anticipate likely objections would be difficult for those, such as myself, with no scientific background.  That is not to say don't do it; but rather a cautionary note - if it is to be done, it must be done well, be researched well, and be presented by someone with a strong enough grasp on the complexities of the theory to withstand the inevitable rejoinders.
           
          4.  Have clear objectives.  What exactly do we wish to achieve by it?  Is it worth the expense of time and energy to simply present an arguement to them?  I would suggest that if what is produced proves to be capable of withstanding the counter-arguments i.e. if it is irrefutable, it is worth putting on a website to present to a wider audience.  Belief in Evolution is the underlying evil of much of todays problems, in that it undermines belief in the Creator, and therefore removes any sense of responsibility before Him.  If an effective refutation can be made, that could prove to be most helpful in bringing others to their senses.  I suggest that ought to be the objective, rather than simply wanting to win the argument.
           
          Regards,
           
          Chris Maddocks
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 6:17 PM
          Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Evolutionist Evidences Challenge!!! (Please Join)

          I'm in. I have always found that such "evidence" actually interpretation of evidence. Interpretations the assume evolution and unformitarianism to star with.

          --- Charles Creager Jr.

          Ps: Bring them on. If they actually respond.

          samson7x@... wrote:

          I have issued a request in Origin Talk for each evolutionist there to list
          their three favorite evidences for evolution with up to 2 sources for each.
          I'd like for all of the creationists here to combine efforts with me, even if
          by personal e-mail and research and discuss these.  Lets each pick a few of
          the topics to tackle and research the heck out of them and find the problems
          with these so called "evidences."  We can then make a professional
          presentation by combining our findings in a letter of sorts, and picking
          someone, or having a volunteer to edit over them.  We can then post the letter
          with source refernces and all and see how they stand up to that.  What do you
          say?  You all up to it?  God bless.

          In Christ,
          JD



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          Creation Science Resource
          http://nwcreation.net/

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        • Jason Bassett
          I am an amateur, but I will offer any help I can. ... From: samson7x@nuwavenet.com To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 11:15 AM
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2002
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            I am an amateur, but I will offer any help I can.
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 11:15 AM
            Subject: [CreationTalk] Evolutionist Evidences Challenge!!! (Please Join)

            I have issued a request in Origin Talk for each evolutionist there to list
            their three favorite evidences for evolution with up to 2 sources for each.
            I'd like for all of the creationists here to combine efforts with me, even if
            by personal e-mail and research and discuss these.  Lets each pick a few of
            the topics to tackle and research the heck out of them and find the problems
            with these so called "evidences."  We can then make a professional
            presentation by combining our findings in a letter of sorts, and picking
            someone, or having a volunteer to edit over them.  We can then post the letter
            with source refernces and all and see how they stand up to that.  What do you
            say?  You all up to it?  God bless.

            In Christ,
            JD



            CreationTalk Discussion Group
            Creation Science Resource
            http://nwcreation.net/

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            CreationTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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          • samson7x@nuwavenet.com
            You took the words right out of my mouth Maddocks. :) I want souls won to Christ. In Christ, JD ... ADVERTISEMENT
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1, 2002
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              You took the words right out of my mouth Maddocks.  :)  I want souls won to Christ.

              In Christ,
              JD
               
               

              Chris Maddocks wrote:

              The idea of refuting the Evolutionist evidences is a good one.  There are, however, points which you will need to bear in mind. 1.  Evolutionists themselves are not unanimous by any means; they are divided amongst themselves as to which variant theory is 'correct'.  That means you may successfully refute one brand of the theory, with many Evolutionists agreeing with you.  It may be better to go to the heart of the concept rather than to focus on specific evidences provided by individuals harbouring their varient pet theories. 2. Evolutionary theory is changeable.  What is presented as 'evidence' now may not be in a few years, when the theories have themselves evolved, and can no longer accommodate certain interpretations of evidence. 3.  Bear in mind that the Evolutionist will be expecting you to challenge his theories - why else would you be asking?  Your refutation will need to take into account points likely to be raised in a rejoinder; it would be worth looking at rejoinders made to other Creationists.  It is not likely that you will be making points the Evolutionists have not heard before; but if they are framed in the right way they may not be able to counter them. To provide a refutation at such a level necessary to anticipate likely objections would be difficult for those, such as myself, with no scientific background.  That is not to say don't do it; but rather a cautionary note - if it is to be done, it must be done well, be researched well, and be presented by someone with a strong enough grasp on the complexities of the theory to withstand the inevitable rejoinders. 4.  Have clear objectives.  What exactly do we wish to achieve by it?  Is it worth the expense of time and energy to simply present an arguement to them?  I would suggest that if what is produced proves to be capable of withstanding the counter-arguments i.e. if it is irrefutable, it is worth putting on a website to present to a wider audience.  Belief in Evolution is the underlying evil of much of todays problems, in that it undermines belief in the Creator, and therefore removes any sense of responsibility before Him.  If an effective refutation can be made, that could prove to be most helpful in bringing others to their senses.  I suggest that ought to be the objective, rather than simply wanting to win the argument. Regards, Chris Maddocks
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 6:17 PM
              Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Evolutionist Evidences Challenge!!! (Please Join)
               I'm in. I have always found that such "evidence" actually interpretation of evidence. Interpretations the assume evolution and unformitarianism to star with.

              --- Charles Creager Jr.

              Ps: Bring them on. If they actually respond.

              samson7x@... wrote:

              I have issued a request in Origin Talk for each evolutionist there to list
              their three favorite evidences for evolution with up to 2 sources for each.
              I'd like for all of the creationists here to combine efforts with me, even if
              by personal e-mail and research and discuss these.  Lets each pick a few of
              the topics to tackle and research the heck out of them and find the problems
              with these so called "evidences."  We can then make a professional
              presentation by combining our findings in a letter of sorts, and picking
              someone, or having a volunteer to edit over them.  We can then post the letter
              with source refernces and all and see how they stand up to that.  What do you
              say?  You all up to it?  God bless.

              In Christ,
              JD

              CreationTalk Discussion Group
              Creation Science Resource
              http://nwcreation.net/

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              CreationTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
               
               

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              Creation Science Resource
              http://nwcreation.net/

              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              CreationTalk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
               
               

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            • samson7x@nuwavenet.com
              Sorry for posting so much Christ. Just wanted to say our challenge has been answered. This should prove fun and prosperous for God. Keep in prayer people,
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 1, 2002
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                Sorry for posting so much Christ. Just wanted to say our challenge has
                been answered. This should prove fun and prosperous for God. Keep in
                prayer people, and lets work with the Holy Spirit to win these souls to
                Christ!

                In Christ,
                JD
              • karlhyzer
                Samson I had trouble opening one of your messages. I did get one to open. Someone who wanted you to respond to about 100 points concerning Genesis 1-3. It
                Message 7 of 9 , Apr 2, 2002
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                  Samson

                  I had trouble opening one of your messages.

                  I did get one to open. Someone who wanted you to respond to about 100
                  points concerning Genesis 1-3. It appears he wants to open another line of
                  debate to deflect and detract from defending his (and other evolutionists)
                  evidences. Common debate tactics of evolutionists.
                  I reveiwed most of his points and they are ridiculous. Anyone with even a
                  small knowledge of science could answer most of his "points." He is simply
                  trying to bait you into answers he can use to attack you and Christianity.
                  He closes with the comment about more to come concerning the Flood etc. I
                  have been on talk origins. I think they have no intention of discussing or
                  defending their evidences for evolution, they want to attack you. He spend
                  some time listing his "points." Why not spend time listing his evidences?
                  He doesn't want to.

                  Do not go for it, at least not yet. Concentrate on your challenge first.
                  Do not try and operate on two fronts, ie, challenging them and being
                  challenged.

                  You issued the challenge. Make him/them respond. Then after their
                  evidences have been discussed, maybe you/we can think about resonding to the
                  Genesis 1-3 challenge.

                  But that must be later.

                  Blessings

                  Karl
                • Charles Creager Jr.
                  karlhyzer wrote: Samson I had trouble opening one of your messages. I did get one to open. Someone who wanted you to respond to about 100 points concerning
                  Message 8 of 9 , Apr 2, 2002
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                    karlhyzer wrote:

                    Samson

                    I had trouble opening one of your messages.

                    I did get one to open.  Someone who wanted you to respond to about 100
                    points concerning Genesis 1-3.  It appears he wants to open another line of
                    debate to deflect and detract from defending his (and other evolutionists)
                    evidences.  Common debate tactics of evolutionists.
                    I reveiwed most of his points and they are ridiculous.  Anyone with even a
                    small knowledge of science could answer most of his "points."  He is simply
                    trying to bait you into answers he can use to attack you and Christianity.
                    He closes with the comment about more to come concerning the Flood etc.  I
                    have been on talk origins.  I think they have no intention of discussing or
                    defending their evidences for evolution, they want to attack you.  He spend
                    some time listing his "points."  Why not spend time listing his evidences?
                    He doesn't want to.

                    Do not go for it, at least not yet.  Concentrate on your challenge first.
                    Do not try and operate on two fronts, ie, challenging them and being
                    challenged.

                    You issued the challenge.  Make him/them respond.  Then after their
                    evidences have been discussed, maybe you/we can think about resonding to the
                    Genesis 1-3 challenge.

                    But that must be later.

                    Blessings

                    Karl

                    I agree 100% but while we are waiting to see if they respond we should be ready. I agree no response should be posted until they respond to challenge to present their evidence. The one post I  made so far to this group was preliminary. Actually most of his points are things that are a mater of record, by that I mean the text is the evidence that they occurred. It would be a kin to proving that Washington was president, you would present the historical record most of  these points are of this nature. Most of the rest are stupid. There are a few good ones, vary few.

                    The best response at this point is give me your evidence and then after I am done with that then I will respond to long list of point on Genesis.

                    --- Charles reager Jr.
                     

                  • samson7x@nuwavenet.com
                    I agree completely with both of you. Okay, I will post asking them to list their evidences so they can be researched. Then I will tell them that after that
                    Message 9 of 9 , Apr 2, 2002
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                      I agree completely with both of you.  Okay, I will post asking them to list their evidences so they can be researched.  Then I will tell them that after that we can work on the debate of scriptural accuracy and Creationist evidences.  Sound good?

                      In Christ,
                      JD
                       

                      "Charles Creager Jr." wrote:

                       

                      karlhyzer wrote:

                      Samson

                      I had trouble opening one of your messages.

                      I did get one to open.  Someone who wanted you to respond to about 100
                      points concerning Genesis 1-3.  It appears he wants to open another line of
                      debate to deflect and detract from defending his (and other evolutionists)
                      evidences.  Common debate tactics of evolutionists.
                      I reveiwed most of his points and they are ridiculous.  Anyone with even a
                      small knowledge of science could answer most of his "points."  He is simply
                      trying to bait you into answers he can use to attack you and Christianity.
                      He closes with the comment about more to come concerning the Flood etc.  I
                      have been on talk origins.  I think they have no intention of discussing or
                      defending their evidences for evolution, they want to attack you.  He spend
                      some time listing his "points."  Why not spend time listing his evidences?
                      He doesn't want to.

                      Do not go for it, at least not yet.  Concentrate on your challenge first.
                      Do not try and operate on two fronts, ie, challenging them and being
                      challenged.

                      You issued the challenge.  Make him/them respond.  Then after their
                      evidences have been discussed, maybe you/we can think about resonding to the
                      Genesis 1-3 challenge.

                      But that must be later.

                      Blessings

                      Karl

                      I agree 100% but while we are waiting to see if they respond we should be ready. I agree no response should be posted until they respond to challenge to present their evidence. The one post I  made so far to this group was preliminary. Actually most of his points are things that are a mater of record, by that I mean the text is the evidence that they occurred. It would be a kin to proving that Washington was president, you would present the historical record most of  these points are of this nature. Most of the rest are stupid. There are a few good ones, vary few.

                      The best response at this point is give me your evidence and then after I am done with that then I will respond to long list of point on Genesis.

                      --- Charles reager Jr.


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                      Creation Science Resource
                      http://nwcreation.net/

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