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Re: [CreationTalk] Testing Mathematics

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  • Victor McAllister
    ... Proverbs 26:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%2026:5&version=NIV I am simply trying to point out how great will be the glory to God
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 18, 2013
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      On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Pete Miles <robots@...> wrote:
       

      Victor - there is only one response left for you Proverbs 26:4

      Proverbs 26:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%2026:5&version=NIV

      I am simply trying to point out how great will be the glory to God when He does what He promised, makes foolish the wise of this age. The triumph of the Bible over science is not far away. Telescopes are taking new and deeper vistas of the creation era. What is visible is utterly unscientific. It only fits a hermeneutic interpretation of the biblical creation texts.

      Victor, Changing Earth Creationist


    • Chuck
      ... unusual X-ray flares from the vicinity of SgrA*. While the initial prediction was that G2 would fall right into Sagittarius A* since then its path has been
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 20, 2013
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        > Stefan Gillessen, from the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial

        > Physics, made a prediction in 2011. He predicted that G2, a dark
        > object near the center of our galaxy, would get sucked into the
        > Sagittarius A* black hole. Two enormous jets emerge from the
        > vicinity of SgrA* and extend out into a bar that connects to the
        > spiral arms of our galaxy. 
        style='font-weight:bold'>According to Stefan’s calculations,
        > G2 should get sucked into the black hole’s gravity in mid 2013.
        >
        > It is now the summer of 2013 and Stefan Gillessen admits that
        G2
        > has not collided with the black hole. There have been no reports of
         unusual X-ray flares from the vicinity of SgrA*.

        While the initial prediction was that G2 would fall right into Sagittarius A* since then its path has been calculated more accurately. It is actually passing about 267 AU’s, though some of the gas may actually fall into the 4,300,000 solar mass supper massive Black Hole, it is not being sucked into it. Calculating the exact path of a gas cloud from 26,000 light years away is rather difficult and it is expected that the initial prediction would be off by a little bit. The fact that it would not fall right into the Black hole has been known since last year.

        http://www.mpg.de/4696934/black_hole_big_meal

        http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.4215.pdf

         



         Observations with ESO’s Very Large Telescope show that G2 has

        >morphed into a long, pulsed, bidirectional jet that is moving out
        > from the G2 object. Gillessen still thinks that eventually, perhaps
        > in a year, the jet will swirl back around to approach the black hole.
        > So far, the double jet is moving out in opposition to the alleged
        >gravity of the supposed black hole.


        As is so often the case you are totally misinterpreting what is going on. This is not a bidirectional jet that is moving out from the G2 object as you claim but the gas clown being stretched as it rounds the black hole. Furthermore given the fact that it is making a near miss of the black hole this stretching affect has been expected and has the gas passes its point of closest approach it will swing back out like a space craft doing a fly by of a planet. By the way the curve in the stretched out gas cloud it a result of its path curving around the Sagittarius A*.

        http://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1332e/

        http://www.eso.org/public/videos/eso1332b/

        > Back in 2012, I predicted that the dark object would not be eaten

        > by the black hole because black holes don’t exist. The cores of
        > galaxies are places where matter receives form and emerges,
        > spreading out, in the opposite direction from Stefan’s black hole
        > predictions. 

        Please give a link to this so called prediction of yours. That said what is being observed is not in opposition to Stefan’s prediction but the difference is a result of his calculated path being off by 267 AU’s it is actually consistent with later predictions that were better able to calculate the gas cloud’s path.

         

        > There are two ways to explain why billions of spiral galaxies encircle a point.

        > According to scientists, matter is spiraling inward, down the drain of a
        black hole.

         

        This is a straw man.  No Scientist is claiming that spiral galaxies are spiraling into their central black holes but orbiting them and as I have pointed out before the orbits are in the opposite direction of the spiral arms.

         

        Victor, what you are doing is making a mockery of the Bible by claiming it says things it does not say and then claiming clearly bogus things as support for those false claims.

         

         

         

        ------ Charles Creager Jr.

        Genesis Science Mission

        Online Store

        Genesis Mission

        Creation Science Talk

         

         

           

      • Victor McAllister
        ... towards. The prediction for a black hole is not just off by a little bit. What happened contradicts the very notion that a black hole even exists. What
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 23, 2013
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          On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Chuck <chuckpc@...> wrote:
           

          > Stefan Gillessen, from the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial
          > Physics, made a prediction in 2011. He predicted that G2, a dark
          > object near the center of our galaxy, would get sucked into the
          > Sagittarius A* black hole. Two enormous jets emerge from the
          > vicinity of SgrA* and extend out into a bar that connects to the
          > spiral arms of our galaxy. According to Stefan’s calculations,
          > G2 should get sucked into the black hole’s gravity in mid 2013.
          >
          > It is now the summer of 2013 and Stefan Gillessen admits that G2
          > has not collided with the black hole. There have been no reports of
           unusual X-ray flares from the vicinity of SgrA*.

          While the initial prediction was that G2 would fall right into Sagittarius A* since then its path has been calculated more accurately. It is actually passing about 267 AU’s, though some of the gas may actually fall into the 4,300,000 solar mass supper massive Black Hole, it is not being sucked into it. Calculating the exact path of a gas cloud from 26,000 light years away is rather difficult and it is expected that the initial prediction would be off by a little bit. The fact that it would not fall right into the Black hole has been known since last year.

          http://www.mpg.de/4696934/black_hole_big_meal

          http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.4215.pdf

           


          The double jet is pulsed. Half of it is moving away and the other half towards. The prediction for a black hole is not just off by a little bit. What happened contradicts the very notion that a black hole even exists. What happened is supported by countless jets remnants all around the center of out galaxy. THe largest jets extend out into a bar which connects to spiral arms that continually move outwards, growing into huge growth spirals, yet they are sourced in unformed matter at the core of the galaxy.

          Imagine that we predict that a meteor will hit Earth (as happened last years in Russia). We predict an explosion in the atmosphere and that the Earth will swallow the meteor. However, the object, as in approaches, turns into a double jet. It doesn't even hit the Earth. Half the jet moves tangentially away and the other half tangentially in the opposite direction. We would have to conclude that the meteor was certainly active and acted apart from the Earth.

          The initial parts of the double jet do not even bend from the alleged gravity of the invisible hole.I predicted that there is no hole in 21012, here:

          http://www.godsriddle.info/2012/09/sagittarius-a.html

          What we observe in the universe only fits the literal account of creation. It does not fit the attempts that scientists (creationists and secularists) make to adjust the universe to fit their creed, the one the BIble preidcted for the last days, that all things remain the same. The visible creation at many ranges only shows that God continues to form the stars and to continues to call them to continually come out, exactly as in the Hebrew grammatical text.

          Observations with ESO’s Very Large Telescope show that G2 has

          >morphed into a long, pulsed, bidirectional jet that is moving out
          > from the G2 object. Gillessen still thinks that eventually, perhaps
          > in a year, the jet will swirl back around to approach the black hole.
          > So far, the double jet is moving out in opposition to the alleged
          >gravity of the supposed black hole.


          As is so often the case you are totally misinterpreting what is going on. This is not a bidirectional jet that is moving out from the G2 object as you claim but the gas clown being stretched as it rounds the black hole. Furthermore given the fact that it is making a near miss of the black hole this stretching affect has been expected and has the gas passes its point of closest approach it will swing back out like a space craft doing a fly by of a planet. By the way the curve in the stretched out gas cloud it a result of its path curving around the Sagittarius A*.

          http://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1332e/

          http://www.eso.org/public/videos/eso1332b/

          > Back in 2012, I predicted that the dark object would not be eaten
          > by the black hole because black holes don’t exist. The cores of
          > galaxies are places where matter receives form and emerges,
          > spreading out, in the opposite direction from Stefan’s black hole
          > predictions. 

          Please give a link to this so called prediction of yours. That said what is being observed is not in opposition to Stefan’s prediction but the difference is a result of his calculated path being off by 267 AU’s it is actually consistent with later predictions that were better able to calculate the gas cloud’s path.

           

          > There are two ways to explain why billions of spiral galaxies encircle a point.
          > According to scientists, matter is spiraling inward, down the drain of a black hole.

           

          This is a straw man.  No Scientist is claiming that spiral galaxies are spiraling into their central black holes but orbiting them and as I have pointed out before the orbits are in the opposite direction of the spiral arms.

           

          Victor, what you are doing is making a mockery of the Bible by claiming it says things it does not say and then claiming clearly bogus things as support for those false claims.

           

           
          What I am doing is showing how the LITERAL creation account only fits the visible universe, not the ad hoc stories scientists invent to protect their creed, that the properties of matter are fixed, not continually (and sometimes violently) emerging. We creationists need to get away from trying to interpret the creation with the Latin Vulgate, the traditions of men, instead of the grammatical Hebrew words.

          The triumph of the word of God over science will be devastating complete. It will bring enormous glory to the Creator when He makes foolish the wise of this age, as He promised.

          Since you are still struggling with the issue of time, I will write another essay on understanding the seven days without western notions of time. The text itself never mentions time. It does mention evenings, mornings, and sequential days. The notion that time exists had not even been invented yet by philosophers when Moses wrote. Understanding the text without adjusting it to fit western ideas about time, is supported by matter emerging from its formless state as galaxies grew into huge growth spirals at many ranges throughout cosmic history. I will explain this again in my next essay.

          Victor, Changing Earth Creation.
           

           


        • Chuck
          ... Sagittarius A* ... years ... would ... Black hole ... http://www.mpg.de/4696934/black_hole_big_meal ... towards. There is no double jet it is a gas cloud
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 24, 2013
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            >>> Stefan Gillessen, from the Max Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial

            >>> Physics, made a prediction in 2011. He predicted that G2, a dark
            >>> object near the center of our galaxy, would get sucked into the
            >>> Sagittarius A* black hole. Two enormous jets emerge from the
            >>> vicinity of SgrA* and extend out into a bar that connects to the
            >>> spiral arms of our galaxy. According
            to Stefan’s calculations,
            >>> G2 should get sucked into the black hole’s gravity in mid
            2013.
            >>> 
            >>
            > It is now the summer of 2013 and Stefan Gillessen
            admits that G2
            >>> has not collided with the black hole. There have been no reports
            of
            >>> unusual X-ray flares from the vicinity of SgrA*.

            >> While the initial prediction was that G2 would fall right into Sagittarius A*

            >> since then its path has been calculated more accurately. It is
            actually
            >> passing about 267 AU’s, though some of the gas may actually fall
            into the
            >> 4,300,000 solar mass supper massive Black Hole, it is not being sucked
            >> into it. Calculating the exact path of a gas cloud from 26,000 light
            years
            >> away is rather difficult and it is expected that the initial
            prediction would
            >> be off by a little bit. The fact that it would not fall right into the
            Black hole
            >> has been known since last year.
            face=Georgia>

            >>http://www.mpg.de/4696934/black_hole_big_meal

            >>
            color="#9136ad">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.4215.pdf

            > The double jet is pulsed. Half of it is moving away and the other half towards.

            There is no double jet it is a gas cloud stretched out by gravity arcing around the black hole. These images are in inferred so what you are calling pulses are variations in temperature as gas cloud speeds through the surround gas it,

            > The prediction for a black hole is not just off by a little bit. What happened

            > contradicts the very notion that a black hole even exists.
            size=2 color=navy face=Georgia>

            What has actually been observed is fully consistent with the prediction for a black hole. The earlier prediction that the gas cloud would fall into the black hole was in error because of a small inaccuracy in the measurement of the direction the cloud was moving. As more observation were made better accuracy was obtained showing that the cloud would miss the black hole by about 267 AU’s and the images obtained are what was expected based on the laws of physics from that close approach of the cloud flew by the central black hole.

            http://www.mpg.de/4696934/black_hole_big_meal

            http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.4215.pdf

            http://www.eso.org/public/images/eso1332e/

            http://www.eso.org/public/videos/eso1332b/

             

            > What happened is supported by countless jets remnants all around

            > the center of out galaxy. THe largest jets extend out into a bar which
            > connects to spiral arms that continually move outwards, growing into
            > huge growth spirals, yet they are sourced in unformed matter at the
            > core of the galaxy. 

            The jets actually seen coming from galactic cores are perpendicular to galaxies plain and have nothing to do with spiral arms. Furthermore the spiral arms do not move out ward but are formed from the motion of stars orbiting the center of the galaxy in the opposite direction of the spiral.  The simple fact is that neither your description of the behavior of this gas cloud nor that of spiral arms has any bases in reality.  They are both based on erroneous interpretation of images, that clearly and possibly deliberately ignore the technology used to get and process the images.

            >Imagine that we predict that a meteor will hit Earth (as happened last

            > years in Russia ).
            We predict an explosion in the atmosphere and that
            > the Earth will swallow the meteor. However, the object, as in
            > approaches, turns into a double jet. It doesn't even hit the Earth.
            > Half the jet moves tangentially away and the other half tangentially
            > in the opposite direction. We would have to conclude that the meteor
            > was certainly active and acted apart from the Earth.
            size=2 color=navy face=Georgia>

            First of all your description of behavior of the gas cloud is not accurate and so this illustration is irrelevant.

            Second if an approach meteor behaved as you said the fact that it happened as it passed the Earth would suggest that gravitational tidal forces acting on the meteor triggered volatiles inside the meteor causing it the split forming your double jet. This could potentially happen as the volatiles were just below activation temperature and the gravitational tidal forces were just enough to raise the temperature the few degrees needed to reach activation temperature.    

            > The initial parts of the double jet do not even bend from the alleged

            > gravity of the invisible hole.
            style='color:navy'>

            There is NO double jet and the bending is evident even in the 2004 image of G2 but it is harder to see because the cloud was cooler at that point, but it is there.

            >I predicted that there is no hole in 21012, here:

            >
            color="#9136ad">http://www.godsriddle.info/2012/09/sagittarius-a.html

            Thanks for actually providing that, however the prediction that  Sagittarius A* would not swallow G2 is not unique to you.  The prediction of that event was dependent on the accuracy of the initial calculations of its G2 direction of motion. When last September it was discovered that that calculation was off a little it became clear that it would miss the central black hole and as such would not get swallowed.

            http://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.4215.pdf

            By the way based on your history if G1 had gotten swallowed you would have ignored it.

             

             

             

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