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Metaphors

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  • VictorM
    Metaphors are imaginative comparisons. Bible believers have often used the world s metaphors to imagine how nature works. Here are some of these metaphors. In
    Message 1 of 2 , Oct 19, 2012
      Metaphors are imaginative comparisons. Bible believers have often used the world's metaphors to imagine how nature works. Here are some of these metaphors.

      In ancient times, people believed the planets were gods that influenced events on Earth. A believer might claim God is more powerful than the demon planets and will protect us from their harmful influences.

      During the medieval age, many Christians amalgamated the ideas of the pagan Plotinus with the Scripture. In Plotinus' scheme, nature was the realm of a world soul. The wind is blowing and the world soul is breathing. For a thousand years Christians feared the spirits that controlled nature.

      Seven hundred years ago, Catholic friars adapted the ideas of the pagan Aristotle to the Bible. They imagined that substance has an essence that, like God, is unchanging. The essence of substance is changeless, the Europeans imagined. Using this as a creed, European intellectuals invented symbols that supposedly represented unchanging reality: mass, energy and time. The metaphor for nature became the machine. The universe was clock-like, because the great Clock Maker had established the orbits with perpetual motion.

      The metaphor for reality today is information. We live in the information age in which economies depend on people organizing and controlling information. Information theories are probabilistic. Supposedly, the quantum encodes information about the probabilistic ways atoms behave. In the macro world, statistical thermodynamics encodes reality. Likewise, DNA encodes information about life. In the larger universe, Einstein's theories dictate how information spreads through the universe at the speed of light. Physicists wonder if black holes destroy information.

      Will future generations look back on our information theories as we look on the medieval Christians and their nature spirits? Whenever Christians have amalgamated the Bible with philosophy, it has resulted in nonsense. It is best for a believer to stick to text of the Bible.

      What is biblical reality like? At first God completed creating the plural heavens and Earth. Yet what He had completed was tohu wa bohu (unformed and empty). Job speaks of streams that flow into the dessert and disappear (tohu). Isaiah says rulers and judges are brought to nothing (tohu). How did the world that was unformed and empty begin to have form? The spirit of God dithered over the dark, primordial, unformed place that had a surface (face paniym) and continued to command light to continue to be. It was then that the Earth began to have extension. God Himself speaks of the house of light that has a border, where paths of light within its house are mysterious, the place of darkness. Evidently God is describing what we call atoms as the house of light in Job 38:19 - 22. Atoms are mostly empty space, have extension, because light dithers around within its house. Whenever scientists smash bits of matter, they find light-like things moving at the speed of light. No one has discovered a god particle, something that cannot be further reduced to light-like. To understand reality as a relation with light is to take a strictly biblical perspective. Paul said light reveals the truth and exposes error because all that is visible is light (phos estin - Ephesians 5:13).

      The wonderful thing about light is it shows us the creation exactly as the Bible describes it. We see that ancient galaxies were often naked, without starry arms. We observe how the stars formed and come out from tohu (formless) beginnings. Sometimes we observe great flashes of light as matter jets out to form the stars that continue to spread out into huge, growth spirals. In billions of galaxies we observe matter emerging from the tuhu (formless) centers of galaxies. We even find evidence on our planet that it once was a tiny globe, without major seas. Our planet has continued to spread out "above the waters" as the Bible describes.

      Efforts to tailor the Bible to fit philosophy eventually fail. The universe is certainly not clock-like, since we observe how clocks and star stream orbits both accelerate outward, exactly as one should expect from the several Bible passages that tell us that God continues to call the stars to come out, that He continues to spread out the plural heavens in unbroken continuity. We observe the evidence that our planet has continued to grow, exactly as the Bible states.

      http://www.godsriddle.info/2012/10/metaphors.html

      Here are two views of Centaurs A, the nearest galaxy with an active center. The left view is of the two bulbous expansions that have moved out from the center of this galaxy, extending far beyond the starry mass. On the right, a magnified (compared to the left view) X-ray image of the center of the galaxy. We observe how a jet and counter jet of matter is emerging from a tohu (formless) place. What we observe is God spreading out the plural heavens in unbroken continuity, as He says He does. Credit NASA and the Chandra Space Telescope.

      How great will be the triumph of the literal Words of God over the scientists.
    • Chuck
      From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of VictorM Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 4:42 PM To:
      Message 2 of 2 , Oct 20, 2012
        From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of VictorM
        Sent: Friday, October 19, 2012 4:42 PM
        To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [CreationTalk] Metaphors



        > Metaphors are imaginative comparisons. Bible believers have
        > often used the world's metaphors to imagine how nature works.



        You are aware that the Bible uses metaphors and that Jesus himself used
        metaphors in his Earthly ministry aren't you?

        > Here are some of these metaphors.

        > In ancient times, people believed the planets were gods that
        > influenced events on Earth. A believer might claim God is
        > more powerful than the demon planets and will protect us
        > from their harmful influences.

        > During the medieval age, many Christians amalgamated the
        > ideas of the pagan Plotinus with the Scripture. In Plotinus'
        > scheme, nature was the realm of a world soul. The wind is
        > blowing and the world soul is breathing. For a thousand
        > years Christians feared the spirits that controlled nature.



        > Seven hundred years ago, Catholic friars adapted the ideas
        > of the pagan Aristotle to the Bible. They imagined that
        > substance has an essence that, like God, is unchanging.
        > The essence of substance is changeless, the Europeans imagined.



        There is a clear dividing line at this point that you have ignored. Up to
        this point up until this point you had people who believe the Bible or at
        least claim to do so, injecting pagan ideas into their beliefs about both
        nature and the Bible. The medieval Christians and Catholic friars you refer
        to were Roman Catholics and not genuine Bible believing Christians.
        Catholicism is not genuine Christianity but little more than Christianized
        paganism and so adding pagan ideas about reality would have come naturally.
        Also before this they were not really interested in testing their notions of
        reality and thus they would



        > Using this as a creed, European intellectuals invented symbols
        > that supposedly represented unchanging reality: mass, energy
        > and time. The metaphor for nature became the machine. The
        > universe was clock-like, because the great Clock Maker had
        > established the orbits with perpetual motion.



        Note that first of all the metaphor being used here is not based in pagan
        thought but in and understanding of mechanics, and unlike the previous
        metaphors classical scientists put their ideas to the test leading away from
        the creed that substance is changeless because it was found that substance
        can change, though not in the manner you think. What you call invented
        symbols are actually names given to propertied and phenomenon observed in
        nature. For example mass is more than a symbol it is the property of matter
        that regulates its acceleration when a force is applied. Also you claim of
        "orbits with perpetual motion" is not accurate since perpetual motion is
        continued unchanging motion without an external force, every planetary body
        orbiting the sun has various forces acting on them that that change or
        orbits over time as such do not meet the definition of perpetual motion.


        > The metaphor for reality today is information. We live in the
        > information age in which economies depend on people
        > organizing and controlling information. Information theories
        > are probabilistic. Supposedly, the quantum encodes information
        > about the probabilistic ways atoms behave. In the macro world,
        > statistical thermodynamics encodes reality. Likewise, DNA
        > encodes information about life. In the larger universe, Einstein's
        > theories dictate how information spreads through the universe at
        > the speed of light. Physicists wonder if black holes destroy
        > information.



        This where your argument breaks down first of every thing above predates the
        information age and Quantum mechanics actually helped make it possible.
        Furthermore the idea that reality is fundamentally information is not a
        metaphor but a conclusion about the underlying working of the universe that
        are based on specific observations that show that what make reality real is
        the availability of information to a conscious observer.



        > Will future generations look back on our information theories
        > as we look on the medieval Christians and their nature spirits?
        > Whenever Christians have amalgamated the Bible with
        > philosophy, it has resulted in nonsense.

        The Information Universe idea is not founded on philosophy but in fact runs
        counter to most philosophical notions about reality which expect reality to
        be material in nature. In particular it totally refutes the philosophy of
        materialism on which is based Darwinian Evolution, the Big Bang and all that
        go with them.


        > It is best for a believer to stick to text of the Bible.

        Well lest see the Genesis 1 says several times that God spoke things into
        existence, and the spoken word is information. Hebrews 11:3 makes it even
        clearer.



        Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds

        were framed by the word of God, so that things which are

        seen were not made of things which do appear.



        What is the word of God but information? In fact the Bible itself is
        information. So when one looks at what the text of the Bible actually says
        it is say that Universe was created out of information, produced by the mind
        of God. From a Biblical perspective the Information Universe idea explains a
        lot.



        By the way the rest of your post is just material we have been over a dozen
        times and I have refuted as many times so won't waste time doing so now.
        There is how ever one thing that is new that is your claim that "Job speaks
        of streams that flow into the dessert and disappear" I can not find any such
        reference will you please hive chapter and verse for it. More likely than
        not it is not really there but just one of you own strange interpretations
        but, I'm willing to give it a look.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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