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Off topic Censorship

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  • Chuck
    I have encountered a way in which Creation Science gets censored on discussion web sites. I have for some time been involved with a discussion web site on
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 8, 2011
      I have encountered a way in which Creation Science gets censored on
      discussion web sites.



      I have for some time been involved with a discussion web site on space
      flight. Now normally the topic of origins does not come up but every once in
      a while; like when a so called Earth like planet Is discovered or the latest
      claim of a meteor with an alleged fossilized bacteria on it; the subject
      comes up. Now I have learned that questioning a purely naturalistic origin
      of life produces a borough of attracts. While I have always been able to
      single handedly defend my position on purely scientific grounds but any such
      reference no mater how much on topic, results in the discussion be dragged
      so far off topic that the entire thread or at least that portion of it gets
      deleted, in affect censoring my views.



      I'm not sure how deliberate it is on the part those making the attracts, or
      if it's just a natural result of changeling their world view but I know that
      when ever I post on topics that touch on the origin of life its going result
      in the thread exploding into an off topic decision that will eventually be
      removed. It's frustrating because on several occasions I have felted like I
      was being censored not so much by sites administrators but by those who
      force their actions.





      ------ Charles Creager Jr.

      Genesis Science Mission <http://gscim.com/>

      Online Store <http://store.gscim.com/>





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Pete Miles
      I know this get s frustrating. Except for the deleting issue, it often happens here when topics quickly diverge into unrelated areas. It also happens when we
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 13, 2011
        I know this get's frustrating. Except for the deleting issue, it often happens
        here when topics quickly diverge into unrelated areas.

        It also happens when we talk to people. Once they realize we have valid
        arguments in support of Creation, they quickly shift the topic into unending
        rabbit trails.

        Pete

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Chuck" <chuckpc@...>
        To: "CreationTalk" <CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com>;
        <creationists@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 5:53 PM
        Subject: [CreationTalk] Off topic Censorship


        >I have encountered a way in which Creation Science gets censored on
        > discussion web sites.
        >
        >
        >
        > I have for some time been involved with a discussion web site on space
        > flight. Now normally the topic of origins does not come up but every once in
        > a while; like when a so called Earth like planet Is discovered or the latest
        > claim of a meteor with an alleged fossilized bacteria on it; the subject
        > comes up. Now I have learned that questioning a purely naturalistic origin
        > of life produces a borough of attracts. While I have always been able to
        > single handedly defend my position on purely scientific grounds but any such
        > reference no mater how much on topic, results in the discussion be dragged
        > so far off topic that the entire thread or at least that portion of it gets
        > deleted, in affect censoring my views.
        >
        >
        >
        > I'm not sure how deliberate it is on the part those making the attracts, or
        > if it's just a natural result of changeling their world view but I know that
        > when ever I post on topics that touch on the origin of life its going result
        > in the thread exploding into an off topic decision that will eventually be
        > removed. It's frustrating because on several occasions I have felted like I
        > was being censored not so much by sites administrators but by those who
        > force their actions.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------ Charles Creager Jr.
        >
        > Genesis Science Mission <http://gscim.com/>
        >
        > Online Store <http://store.gscim.com/>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > ============================================
        > CreationTalk email listserv
        > Northwest Creation Network http://nwcreation.net/
        > CreationWiki http://creationwiki.org/
        > ============================================Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >


        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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        04:08:00
      • Pete Miles
        I am looking for some references (links to sites) that provide a discussion on the methods used to physically measure (or as I have been told - calculate) the
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 15, 2011
          I am looking for some references (links to sites) that provide a discussion on
          the methods used to physically measure (or as I have been told - calculate) the
          decay rates of an isotope. I am interested in the methods, instruments,
          mathematics, and the assumptions that go into the measurements/calculations.

          Thanks, in advance

          Pete
        • Chuck
          While I can t find a good link for you I can explain the process its actually quite sample. You take a sample containing the Isotope to be measured and run
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 17, 2011
            While I can't find a good link for you I can explain the process its
            actually quite sample.



            You take a sample containing the Isotope to be measured and run part of it
            to through the mass spectrometer. You then do it again one more times over a
            selected period of time,



            The you calculate the decay constant by g = ln(I0/i2)/t



            g = the decay constant



            I0 = Original measured amount of the Isotope.



            I2 = 2nd measured amount of the Isotope.



            t = time



            ln() = Natrual log



            You then calculate the half life by



            hl = ln(2)/g



            The only assumption in this is that the decay rate is reasonably constant
            through out the experiment and even any small variation that may occur could
            be average out over several measurements.



            I hope this helps.



            ------ Charles Creager Jr.

            Genesis Science <http://gscim.com/> Mission

            Online <http://store.gscim.com/> Store



            _____

            From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Pete Miles
            Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:52 AM
            To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [CreationTalk] Measuring/Calculating Isotope Decay Rates





            I am looking for some references (links to sites) that provide a discussion
            on
            the methods used to physically measure (or as I have been told - calculate)
            the
            decay rates of an isotope. I am interested in the methods, instruments,
            mathematics, and the assumptions that go into the measurements/calculations.

            Thanks, in advance

            Pete



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Pete Miles
            Thanks Chuck, It is my understanding that a mass spectrometer provides more of a relative abundance of mass to charge ratios of a sample, not an exact
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 17, 2011
              Thanks Chuck,

              It is my understanding that a mass spectrometer provides more of a relative
              abundance of mass to charge ratios of a sample, not an exact measurement of the
              sample's mass. Since it is a destructive test, the same original sample can't
              be tested again. Since numerous independant samples have to be tested, wouldn't
              another assumption be that the different samples were identical, and that the
              isotope ratios were solely due to the decay within the sample (i.e. no original
              daughter product and daughter products don't come from other sources).

              This is an interesting topic.

              Pete


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Chuck" <chuckpc@...>
              To: <CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 5:16 PM
              Subject: RE: [CreationTalk] Measuring/Calculating Isotope Decay Rates


              > While I can't find a good link for you I can explain the process its
              > actually quite sample.
              >
              >
              >
              > You take a sample containing the Isotope to be measured and run part of it
              > to through the mass spectrometer. You then do it again one more times over a
              > selected period of time,
              >
              >
              >
              > The you calculate the decay constant by g = ln(I0/i2)/t
              >
              >
              >
              > g = the decay constant
              >
              >
              >
              > I0 = Original measured amount of the Isotope.
              >
              >
              >
              > I2 = 2nd measured amount of the Isotope.
              >
              >
              >
              > t = time
              >
              >
              >
              > ln() = Natrual log
              >
              >
              >
              > You then calculate the half life by
              >
              >
              >
              > hl = ln(2)/g
              >
              >
              >
              > The only assumption in this is that the decay rate is reasonably constant
              > through out the experiment and even any small variation that may occur could
              > be average out over several measurements.
              >
              >
              >
              > I hope this helps.
              >
              >
              >
              > ------ Charles Creager Jr.
              >
              > Genesis Science <http://gscim.com/> Mission
              >
              > Online <http://store.gscim.com/> Store
              >
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Pete Miles
              > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:52 AM
              > To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [CreationTalk] Measuring/Calculating Isotope Decay Rates
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I am looking for some references (links to sites) that provide a discussion
              > on
              > the methods used to physically measure (or as I have been told - calculate)
              > the
              > decay rates of an isotope. I am interested in the methods, instruments,
              > mathematics, and the assumptions that go into the measurements/calculations.
              >
              > Thanks, in advance
              >
              > Pete
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > ============================================
              > CreationTalk email listserv
              > Northwest Creation Network http://nwcreation.net/
              > CreationWiki http://creationwiki.org/
              > ============================================Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >


              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
              Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3513 - Release Date: 03/17/11
              12:34:00
            • Chuck
              From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pete Miles Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:57 AM To:
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 18, 2011
                From: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Pete Miles
                Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 12:57 AM
                To: CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [CreationTalk] Measuring/Calculating Isotope Decay Rates




                > It is my understanding that a mass spectrometer provides more

                > of a relative abundance of mass to charge ratios of a sample,

                > not an exact measurement of the sample's mass.



                While it is essentially true that a mass spectrometer measures mass to
                charge ratios the charge value is known allowing the isotopic masses to be
                calculated. Also it dose measure absolute abundance not relative abundance.



                > Since it is a destructive test, the same original sample can't be

                > tested again. Since numerous independant samples have to be

                > tested,



                The samples tested are not independent, but are taken from the same larger
                sample.



                > wouldn't another assumption be that the different samples

                > were identical, and that the isotope ratios were solely due
                > to the decay within the sample (i.e. no original daughter
                > product and daughter products don't come from other
                > sources).

                The larger sample is usually ground up and each test sample gets a portion
                of the mixed ground up sample so as to average out any isotopic variation
                that was in the larger sample.





                ------ Charles Creager Jr.

                Genesis Science <http://gscim.com/> Mission

                Online <http://store.gscim.com/> Store





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • hugenex2000
                ... Eugene: It is a tactic to derail your argument without actually dealing with the argument. The tactic is designed to frustrate you and I run into it all
                Message 7 of 7 , May 11, 2011
                  --- In CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck" <chuckpc@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have encountered a way in which Creation Science gets censored on
                  > discussion web sites.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I have for some time been involved with a discussion web site on space
                  > flight. Now normally the topic of origins does not come up but every once in
                  > a while; like when a so called Earth like planet Is discovered or the latest
                  > claim of a meteor with an alleged fossilized bacteria on it; the subject
                  > comes up. Now I have learned that questioning a purely naturalistic origin
                  > of life produces a borough of attracts. While I have always been able to
                  > single handedly defend my position on purely scientific grounds but any such
                  > reference no mater how much on topic, results in the discussion be dragged
                  > so far off topic that the entire thread or at least that portion of it gets
                  > deleted, in affect censoring my views.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm not sure how deliberate it is on the part those making the attracts, or
                  > if it's just a natural result of changeling their world view but I know that
                  > when ever I post on topics that touch on the origin of life its going result
                  > in the thread exploding into an off topic decision that will eventually be
                  > removed. It's frustrating because on several occasions I have felted like I
                  > was being censored not so much by sites administrators but by those who
                  > force their actions.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------ Charles Creager Jr.
                  >
                  > Genesis Science Mission <http://gscim.com/>
                  >
                  > Online Store <http://store.gscim.com/>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

                  Eugene: It is a tactic to derail your argument without actually dealing with the argument. The tactic is designed to frustrate you and I run into it all the time since I spend a lot of time in informal debate groups. I started to post some of my discussion in such groups on my blog as examples that might help those who get frustrated with such discussions.
                  http://newcreationist.blogspot.com/2011/05/origin-of-life-discussion.html
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