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11741RE: [CreationTalk] RE: Celestial Mechanics

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  • Chuck
    Feb 15, 2014
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      > The laws of celestial mechanics are assumption dependent.

      Every thing we think is assumption because unlike God we don’t know every thing and your Changing Earth Creationist assumption dependent. For example you assume that you actually know Hebrew and Greek better than any other human being that has lived for the last 2,000 years. You assume that God inspired the original autographs and then left his word at the mercy of flawed sinful men. You assume that the King James Bible which God as used to win more souls to Christ than even the  original autographs themselves, was not inspired by the same God that has so mightily used it. If any of these assumptions are wrong so are you. For the record, they are all wrong.

      > They also violate what the Bible says about how the heavenly

      >
      bodies move.

      WRONG, nothing in a real Bible says any such thing. However you are free to give me references to actual Bible passages you think say such thing, rather than making baseless claims about what it says.

      > The laws of celestial mechanics are based on the western

      >
      concept of time, measured with clocks. In the westerncolor=navy>
      >
      system, time is believed to be linear and orbits are saidcolor=navy>
      >
      to be clock-like.

      Those laws of celestial mechanics allow us to launch a spacecraft to where its designation planet will be when the spacecraft get there and they always meat right on schedule. We can also use that planet to send the spacecraft in to another planet which is always were it is suppose to be when that spacecraft arrives. That shows that the laws of celestial mechanics with  such precision that it shows that time is linear and orbits are said are clock-like.

      > Yet orbits are observed to spread out throughout the history

      >
      of how the galaxies formed.style='color:navy'>

      No such observation has ever been made. You may of course provide a reference to support your claim.

      > Our ancestors and the biblical prophets mentioned close

      >
      planet passages and the shattering of a nearby planet justcolor=navy>
      >
      a few thousand years ago.  style='color:navy'>

      No they don’t. Prove it. I know that you have claimed certain passages as saying such but it is just your opinion. You may of course provide a reference to support your claim.

       

      > We also observe how atomic clocks accelerate in billions

      >
      of galaxies, the fastest (normal temperature) atomiccolor=navy>
      >
      clocks are local.

      We also observe not such thing what is observe is absorption lines being shifted towards red end of the spectrum that increases with increasing distance. By the way some nearby galaxies are blue shifted because they are heading towards us. They are not slower atomic clocks, but rather doppler shifts and or the stretching of space

      > Even local atomic clocks when compared to their transponded

      >
      rates from hours ago (the Pioneer Anomaly) suggest that local
      >
      atoms accelerate in the same way as we observe ancient atomscolor=navy>
      >
      changing throughout cosmic history. The signals from hours ago
      >
      of NASA's hydrogen maser atomic clocks were slower than thecolor=navy>
      >
      present rate of the clocks, What does this mean? It suggest that
      >
      local atomic clocks are accelerating.style='color:navy'>

      This proves that you are 100% absolutely WRONG!!! What you describe above would be red shift, but the Pioneer Anomaly was a blue shift.

      > The earliest atoms ticked at less than 10% of the

      >
      frequencies of modern atoms.style='color:navy'>

      Baseless claim, please provide some actual unique evidence for this.

      > The Bible states that God continues in unbroken continuity

      >
      to spread out the plural heavens, He continues to to call the
      >
      stars to come out, He continues to spread out the plural
      >
      heavens like a tent to dwell in. The verbs in the creation
      >
      account mostly refer to continuing actions. In a few cases
      >
      they refer to completed actions, such as the the creation ofcolor=navy>
      >
      the heavens and the earth (the entire universe) prior to givingcolor=navy>
      >
      form to the Earth. He evidently continued to give form tocolor=navy>
      >
      the earth by continuing to command light to be. Later hecolor=navy>
      >
      continued to form the heavenly luminaries and continuedcolor=navy>
      >
      to place them in the raqiya. Raqiya is the noun of the verb to
      >
      continually spread out.style='color:navy'>

      These are nothing but your own translation based a poor understanding of Hebrew. I know it a poor understanding of it because of you tendency to insert the meaning of the Hebrew verb tense in front of  English verb instead of using the equivalent English for of the verb.  I also noticed that you did not give book, chapter and verse any of these. I know the reason. You know that if the gave that information that the reader could look it up in a real Bible and seek clearly that you do not to what you are walking about.

      > He is not spreading out the vacuum of space time. He

      >
      visibly spread out billions of galaxies into huge localcolor=navy>
      >
      growth spirals. This is evidence for what he began tocolor=navy>
      >
      continually do on creation day four.

      Except for the fact that NO galaxy has ever been observed to spread out as you describe, NOT ONE.  Nor have you ever given one reason not based on circular reasoning to conclude that the word “heavens” in the Bible ever refers to galaxies.

      > Earth's continents fit together on a minuscule globe without

      > major surface seas.

      No they don’t. I’ve seen the illustration and you don’t get a real fit without manipulation.

      > The Bible states that God continues to spread out the earth

      > three times. It even says He continues to lay the foundations
      > of the earth (Zechariah 12:1). The continual spreading ot the
      > Earth in our day occurs above the waters. Indeed, a glbal
      > expansion seam continues to form new basaltic seafloor as
      > the Earth continues to grow in size. 
      style='color:navy'>

      Please provide some real evidence that the actual size of the Earth is increasing. Distances can be measured vary precisely, which is why we know the Moon is receding at 1.5 inches a year. If the Earth were really increasing in size it could probably be measured.

       

      Zechariah 12:1 (KJB) The burden of the word of the
      LORD for Israel , saith the LORD, which stretcheth
      forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the
      earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

      Here is Zechariah 12:1 from a real. One of your mistakes is in confusing the use word Earth some times it refers to the Planet Earth sometimes it refers just to land. The reference here to the foundations of the Earth shows that this is a reference to land. Since the continents literally sit on a granite crust. These foundations are indeed being continually laid by volcanic activity as plate tectonic literally pulls on the land spreading it, but with out increasing the size of the Earth,

       

      > When considering theories of celestial mechanics it is

      > important to test the basic assumption upon which
      > they were contrived. Because such an assumption is
      > elementary, "what is evidence" also depends on the
      > first assumption.

      I get it now, in your thinking it’s not evidence unless it agrees with you changing Earth idea.

      >What assumption? The one the Bible predicted for the last

      > days. Mockers will obfuscate the history of the plural
      > heavens with their notion that all things remain the same
      > (2 Peter 3:3-6)

      2 Peter 3:3-6 (KJB)
      3  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the
      last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
      4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming?
      for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as
      they were from the beginning of the creation.
      5  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the
      word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth
      standing out of the water and in the water:
      6  Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed
      with water, perished:

      Look at these verses in a real Bible shows that Peter did not say what you claim.

      Besides No one is claiming that “all thing remain the same,” such that you have to twist it your own translation to make fit your changing Earth idea, by insisting that the all changed but the change you are pushing is all thing remaining the same.

      > The visible history of how galaxies grew from tiny

      > naked globs as the stars continued to form and spread
      > out trumps all modern theories of celestial mechanics.
      color="#003366">

      None of this is has any truth behind it. Galaxies are not seen growing from tiny naked globs as the stars continued to form and spread, your so called visible history is nothing but a figment of you imagination.


      ------ Charles Creager Jr.

      Genesis Science Mission

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