11739Re: [CreationTalk] Western Time Concept
- Feb 15, 2014The earliest generations did not have a concept of an actual time. In Japanese (I think) the present can indicate continuing actions like the present indicative in Koine Greek. Mandarin, the most spoken language today, has no verb tense because it is an ancient language - from the era before the concept of time. Christians in Indonesia were never late to Church. Each person arrived using their own reference system, some the temperature, others the angle of the Sun. Their language is not tensed like ours so time was a foreign idea until they became westernized by colonization.Time began its existence about 2600 years ago and the Greek philosophers seemed to have a great deal to do with inventing it. Later, Augustine had a great influence on the western civilization. His notions of time (which he adapted from the pagan philosopher Plotinus) became part of Christian traditions, Christians translations and Christians theologies. This came about from a thousand years of papal control of western schools. For example, Augustine is still followed by modern translation - "In the beginning." Augustine claimed that verse was informing us that God created time. The Hebrew simply says First (in precedence or importance) God created (completion verb) the entire universe - the heavens and the Earth.
Hebrew verbs show continuity or completion without tenses for telling when this happens (might be future or past and only the context allows us to figure that out). Our creation translations have verb tenses because Western traditions and languages influenced them, but it was not that way in Moses era. Moses referred to when something occurs with aspect - a reference to something cyclical in nature (such as days) - not to time. Moses could not understood a modern Christian asking if Creation days were 24 hours long. Neither time nor hours had been invented in his days.
What is the difference between a day count and time? Ancient calendars were not measuring time. The first Roman calendar had only 10 named months. You can still hear the Latin numerals in September (7), October (8), November (9) and December (10). Two months (Januarius and Februarius) remained unnamed until the days of the king Numa. Since there was no agricultural or cultic activity going on during those winter months, they had no named existence. (Time did not exist in that era). Two Roman historians explained that some early Roman months had 20 days and some 35. If you did not see the new moon, because of weather, that month had more days than the next. A month was not a measurement of time. It was an event, the visible new moon. In the Old Testament if they saw the new moon, they blew a trumpet to let everyone know a new moon event had occurred. The notion that time is linear came 3,000 years after Moses.
Understanding creation and earth history in the context of how ancient people thought and communicated, is radically different from western interpretations. The most powerful evidence for a literal biblical creation is how the galaxies grew from point sources as the stars continued to accelerate outwards, often growing into huge growth spirals. What we observe is the very thing God says He does in unbroken continuity, calling the stars to continually come out.
Victor, Changing Earth CreationistOn Sat, Feb 15, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Pete Miles <robots@...> wrote:
Can someone explain what this “western time concept” means.
I have degrees in both physics and mechanical engineering, and no where does this “western time concept” ever come up in any of the course work, papers, or conferences I have read or participated in.
The only place where it is constantly thrown out is here and last week from a Japanese missionary.
Every time I hear it used, it generally falls into the category of the Gnostics having some special knowledge of something that everyone else doesn’t have.
Can someone provide any links to papers that explains that there is a “western time concept” and that there are other time concepts that apparently is a mystery to the rest of the world.
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