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11376RE: [CreationTalk] Re: Biblical Eons

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  • Chuck
    Oct 29, 2012
      ------ Charles Creager Jr.

      Genesis Science Mission <http://gscim.com/>

      Online Store <http://store.gscim.com/>

      Genesis Mission <http://genesismission.4t.com/>

      Creation Science <http://creationsciencetalk.blogspot.com/> Talk

      _____

      >> You are saying that the Bible as we have it to day has been>> corrupted
      by Catholics views and that even the meaning of the Greek and Hebrew words
      of

      > been likewise corrupted. The result is you can claim you own personal

      > translation and interpretation of the Bible as what the Bible actually
      says

      > even though it disagrees with every other translator of last 2000 years.
      Not

      > that but when I look any Greek or Hebrew text of the Bible I don't see
      your

      > personal translation and interpretation popping out as obvious or even

      > possible. When I then say I don't see it and in fact the Greek and Hebrew
      do

      > not say what you claim., then you are not at fault but every one else is

      > because in YOUR VEIW we are looking ar corrupt texts with a corrupt

      > understanding of the even the Greek and Hebrew languages them selves.

      >

      >



      We have the text of the Bible accurately preserved in its original
      languages, in

      most cases - although Matthew probably was originally written in Aramaic.
      What I

      am saying is it is illegitimate for religious tradition to change the
      meaning of

      words to fit their religious concepts. E.g. changing the Greek word for eons

      (aion) the Greek word used for the Old Testament Hebrew word "olam" to
      eternal.

      How do we know what the words meant? We have documents in Greek and Hebrew.

      Moses said take 12 stones out of the Jordan and set them up as a memorial
      for

      olam. The stones are long gone, they are not in place for eternity, but for

      ages.



      Here is Aristotle's description of the word aion both with respect to the
      pagan

      gods and with respect to mortal men.



      It is therefore evident that there is neither space, nor time, nor vacuum

      beyond. Wherefore the things there are not adapted by nature to exist in
      place;

      nor does time make them grow old; neither under the highest (heaven) is
      there

      any change of any one of these things, they being placed beyond it; but

      unchangeable, passionless - they continue through all aióna. For indeed, the

      word itself according to the ancients, divinely expressed this. For the
      period

      which comprehends the time of every one's life, beyond which, according to

      nature, nothing exists, is called his aión. And for the same reason, the
      period

      of the whole heaven even the infinite time of all things, and the period

      comprehending that infinity is aión, eternity, deriving its name from aei,

      einai, always being, immortal and divine."



      With respect to the pagan gods, who unlike the biblical God absolutely could
      not

      not change, it was an infinite duration. With respect to mortals, in ancient

      times it was used for the duration of a lifetime. The Greek poets agreed
      with

      the Bible that the earliest generations lived for vast ages.



      What am I saying. Words HAVE MEANING IN THEIR HISTORICAL CONTEXT.
      Translators

      have no right to change the meaning to fit their religious persuasion or
      their

      philosophical concepts.



      >

      > You are claiming that God not only failed to preserve and transmit his
      word

      > to us in the 21st century by that he even allow the understanding vary

      > original languages to become corrupt so that even efforts to translate
      from

      > an original autograph (if one were available) would produce a corrupt

      > translation. You would then have us believe the God came to you one day
      and

      > gave and only the key to undoing corruption. As a result we are suppose to

      > bow the knee of our intellect to you despite the fact that every other

      > source including the Bible I grew up on the KJV says you are wrong. What
      you

      > are claiming much like that of a cult leader.

      >



      I am not wise. I am not introducing some new teaching. I am not corrupting
      God's

      word. I advocate accepting the biblical words as they meant when they were

      written. The message I have is we must not tailor the Bible to fit the
      western

      system. The western system is mindset. When I was a child, my mind was
      forced

      into a mold by my schooling. (BTW, schooling is not usually to teach one to

      think freely, but to think within the mindset of the society one is raised
      in).

      I did not even know that my mind was incarcerated until I read the biblical

      warning about the dangers of the elementary ideas of philosophy (Col 2:8). I

      realized that the western system was contrived by well meaning Christians
      monks

      who adjusted the Bible to fit the philosophy of the pagan Greeks. They
      actually

      thought that philosophy could be the handmaiden to the Bible, bringing
      skeptics

      to faith





      >

      >

      > What is at the hart of the issue is not what the first principle of
      science

      > is or what Augustine or Friar Thomas said but do we have a faithful,

      > accurate authoritative copy of the word of God.

      >





      I beg you to read the original text. Don't read the traditions of men.





      The issues Creationist (both young and old earthers) has a simple, literal

      answer in the original languages. In fact, the age of the universe is
      probably

      the most powerful evidence for a literal creation, since we see the vast
      eons

      back to the creation age and we SEE exactly what the literal text states.

      However, we must stop tailoring our interpretations to fit the false first
      law

      of the last days.



      I challenge you to look up at the galaxies - which in our age you can do
      without

      a telscopoe - sinc e we taxpayers have access to the photos we pay for with
      the

      Hubble and hopefully someday the James Webb.



      Isaiah 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high And see who has created these stars,
      The

      One who leads forth their host by number, He calls them all by name; Because
      of

      the greatness of His might and the strength of His power, Not one of them is

      missing.



      Here is a double imperative - look up and see! God expects us to see the

      evidence for what He does in the sky. He created something - a verbally

      completed action. The next verb is a hiphil participle to cause to go, to
      come

      out, bring out, lead out. Hiphil expresses the causative action and the

      participle shows an action in its unbroken continuity. He expects us to see

      something coming out as he continues to call to his starry army in the sky.

      Because of the strength of His power, none of the stars fails. (What we see
      in

      galactic history is that orbits accelerate outward as matter keeps on
      changing

      its clock frequencies and the space it takes up as stars continue to form
      out of

      things that do not appear. What we see is the evidence that God will make

      foolish the scientists. Man cannot find Him through humanistic wisdom. Yet
      the

      evidence for His creation is simple and visible.



      Changing Earth Creationist are not a new cult. We preach that people should

      accept the literal words of the Bible as they were written (verbal, plenary

      authority) and not tailor the text to fit the modern mindset of scientists
      who

      reason with the very first law the Bible predicted for the last days. Of
      course

      when we bring down the great fortress of speculative reasoning raised up
      against

      the knowledge of God (science - 2 cor 10:3 -6) it will probably bring on

      persecution. But we will bring great glory to our Creator when we use HIS

      LITERAL WORDS as weapons of war, not keep on adjusting the meaning to fit
      the

      latest scientific theory as has been going on for some centuries now.



      Victor



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