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11375Re: Biblical Eons

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  • VictorM
    Oct 27, 2012
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      --- In CreationTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Chuck" <chuckpc@...> wrote:
      > Victor:
      > > The Bible menas what is says in the original languages and in
      > > its grammatical / historical context. In many cases the original
      > > meanings of words, especially with respect to creation and
      > > earth history, were modified by the Catholics.
      > I get it. Now I really get it.
      > You are saying that the Bible as we have it to day has been corrupted by
      > Catholics views and that even the meaning of the Greek and Hebrew words of
      > been likewise corrupted. The result is you can claim you own personal
      > translation and interpretation of the Bible as what the Bible actually says
      > even though it disagrees with every other translator of last 2000 years. Not
      > that but when I look any Greek or Hebrew text of the Bible I don't see your
      > personal translation and interpretation popping out as obvious or even
      > possible. When I then say I don't see it and in fact the Greek and Hebrew do
      > not say what you claim., then you are not at fault but every one else is
      > because in YOUR VEIW we are looking ar corrupt texts with a corrupt
      > understanding of the even the Greek and Hebrew languages them selves.

      We have the text of the Bible accurately preserved in its original languages, in most cases - although Matthew probably was originally written in Aramaic. What I am saying is it is illegitimate for religious tradition to change the meaning of words to fit their religious concepts. E.g. changing the Greek word for eons (aion) the Greek word used for the Old Testament Hebrew word "olam" to eternal. How do we know what the words meant? We have documents in Greek and Hebrew. Moses said take 12 stones out of the Jordan and set them up as a memorial for olam. The stones are long gone, they are not in place for eternity, but for ages.

      Here is Aristotle's description of the word aion both with respect to the pagan gods and with respect to mortal men.

      It is therefore evident that there is neither space, nor time, nor vacuum beyond. Wherefore the things there are not adapted by nature to exist in place; nor does time make them grow old; neither under the highest (heaven) is there any change of any one of these things, they being placed beyond it; but unchangeable, passionless - they continue through all aióna. For indeed, the word itself according to the ancients, divinely expressed this. For the period which comprehends the time of every one's life, beyond which, according to nature, nothing exists, is called his aión. And for the same reason, the period of the whole heaven even the infinite time of all things, and the period comprehending that infinity is aión, eternity, deriving its name from aei, einai, always being, immortal and divine."

      With respect to the pagan gods, who unlike the biblical God absolutely could not not change, it was an infinite duration. With respect to mortals, in ancient times it was used for the duration of a lifetime. The Greek poets agreed with the Bible that the earliest generations lived for vast ages.

      What am I saying. Words HAVE MEANING IN THEIR HISTORICAL CONTEXT. Translators have no right to change the meaning to fit their religious persuasion or their philosophical concepts.

      > You are claiming that God not only failed to preserve and transmit his word
      > to us in the 21st century by that he even allow the understanding vary
      > original languages to become corrupt so that even efforts to translate from
      > an original autograph (if one were available) would produce a corrupt
      > translation. You would then have us believe the God came to you one day and
      > gave and only the key to undoing corruption. As a result we are suppose to
      > bow the knee of our intellect to you despite the fact that every other
      > source including the Bible I grew up on the KJV says you are wrong. What you
      > are claiming much like that of a cult leader.

      I am not wise. I am not introducing some new teaching. I am not corrupting God's word. I advocate accepting the biblical words as they meant when they were written. The message I have is we must not tailor the Bible to fit the western system. The western system is mindset. When I was a child, my mind was forced into a mold by my schooling. (BTW, schooling is not usually to teach one to think freely, but to think within the mindset of the society one is raised in). I did not even know that my mind was incarcerated until I read the biblical warning about the dangers of the elementary ideas of philosophy (Col 2:8). I realized that the western system was contrived by well meaning Christians monks who adjusted the Bible to fit the philosophy of the pagan Greeks. They actually thought that philosophy could be the handmaiden to the Bible, bringing skeptics to faith

      > What is at the hart of the issue is not what the first principle of science
      > is or what Augustine or Friar Thomas said but do we have a faithful,
      > accurate authoritative copy of the word of God.

      I beg you to read the original text. Don't read the traditions of men.

      The issues Creationist (both young and old earthers) has a simple, literal answer in the original languages. In fact, the age of the universe is probably the most powerful evidence for a literal creation, since we see the vast eons back to the creation age and we SEE exactly what the literal text states. However, we must stop tailoring our interpretations to fit the false first law of the last days.

      I challenge you to look up at the galaxies - which in our age you can do without a telscopoe - sinc e we taxpayers have access to the photos we pay for with the Hubble and hopefully someday the James Webb.

      Isaiah 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high And see who has created these stars, The One who leads forth their host by number, He calls them all by name; Because of the greatness of His might and the strength of His power, Not one of them is missing.

      Here is a double imperative - look up and see! God expects us to see the evidence for what He does in the sky. He created something - a verbally completed action. The next verb is a hiphil participle to cause to go, to come out, bring out, lead out. Hiphil expresses the causative action and the participle shows an action in its unbroken continuity. He expects us to see something coming out as he continues to call to his starry army in the sky. Because of the strength of His power, none of the stars fails. (What we see in galactic history is that orbits accelerate outward as matter keeps on changing its clock frequencies and the space it takes up as stars continue to form out of things that do not appear. What we see is the evidence that God will make foolish the scientists. Man cannot find Him through humanistic wisdom. Yet the evidence for His creation is simple and visible.

      Changing Earth Creationist are not a new cult. We preach that people should accept the literal words of the Bible as they were written (verbal, plenary authority) and not tailor the text to fit the modern mindset of scientists who reason with the very first law the Bible predicted for the last days. Of course when we bring down the great fortress of speculative reasoning raised up against the knowledge of God (science - 2 cor 10:3 -6) it will probably bring on persecution. But we will bring great glory to our Creator when we use HIS LITERAL WORDS as weapons of war, not keep on adjusting the meaning to fit the latest scientific theory as has been going on for some centuries now.

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