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Re: hull to deck joint

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  • xherrmann
    I m sure I ve overstated the distinction between the two of y all s boats and mainstream Coronado 25, but clearly there are a set of uniform differences which
    Message 1 of 8 , May 1, 2011
      I'm sure I've overstated the distinction between the two of y'all's boats and mainstream Coronado 25, but clearly there are a set of uniform differences which suggest a second set of molds were probably created; the anchor pulpit, large single cabin windows, and the slightly raised-up aft lazarette notable among them.

      I noticed while reading the manual which I cited previously that a reference to an optional spar kit was mentioned. This might explain the difference in the length of the boom and it's height over the cabin sole I observed between Mandarin and other C25's I've seen.

      Xenon

      I remember who it was that told me about how the other version came about and I'll ask him again about it next time I see him.

      --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, clayton barton <claytonwbarton@...> wrote:
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      > yeah i when i first joined and i saw The Flying Squirrel i knew for sure that the Mandarin was a Coronado of some sort. Ive only seen a 3 boats like this with the bow like that i wonder whats up with these ones? I wish i could see whats going on with his deck to hull joint.
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      > --- On Sat, 4/30/11, xherrmann <xherrmann@...> wrote:
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      > From: xherrmann <xherrmann@...>
      > Subject: [Coronado25] Re: hull to deck joint
      > To: Coronado25@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Saturday, April 30, 2011, 3:54 PM
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      > Yes, I see that. Perhaps your boat isn't actually the Sailcrafter referenced in the instructions... or it is from a different year... or the hull-deck joint was redone in the past with the flange being removed.
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      > I just realized that what I think is the sistership of your boat is depicted in the photos section of this very group at the following URL:
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      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Coronado25/photos/album/1299793466/pic/list
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      > The Flying Squirrel of "world_in_chaos" does not have the wooden rubrail that Mandarin has though.
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      > Is this right?
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      > Xenon
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      > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, clayton barton <claytonwbarton@> wrote:
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      > > i don"t know about this info. I had this saved on my computer and final sat down to read it the other day. There is some conflicting ideas and directions when you apply them to what Im seeing on my boat but maybe I'm misunderstanding.
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      > >  #1 "Clamp the deck and the hull together in about six points on both sides.
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      > > Starting with the transom and working forward evenly on both sides,
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      > > drill and countersink screw holes through the deck flange and hull
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      > > flange, clamping the hull and deck together in a fair line as you go.
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      > > Use a flathead #8 selftapping screw to pull the deck and hull flange
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      > > together. Space these 810 inches apart."
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      > > look at my pictures of the joint how would you clamp that together and there's no way screw the deck to the hull because they don't overlap anywhere. maybe if the hull to deck joint was like this http://dan.pfeiffer.net/p26/hulldeck.gif and after glassing it together they cut off where they overlapped but then that would result in a seam that was the deck and the hull butted up against each other really well but this is not how it is. look at the pictures and you'll see the deck and hull aren't butted up together there's gaps and its really uneven.
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      > > --- On Sat, 4/30/11, xherrmann <xherrmann@> wrote:
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      > > From: xherrmann <xherrmann@>
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      > > Subject: [Coronado25] Re: hull to deck joint
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      > > To: Coronado25@yahoogroups.com
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      > > Date: Saturday, April 30, 2011, 12:23 PM
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      > > I was just looking at two other boats and found that my boat's heavy chopped strand matt covering was probably just added over the same existing cloth covering for the inside of the hull-deck joint that I saw on those boats.
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      > > The Columbia Yachts Coronado 25 kit assembly manual which refers to the "Sailcrafter" model within the text has instructions for a hull-deck joint "with H-metal" and "without H-metal."
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      > > It seems your boat was finished in the second way because in those instructions wood is mentioned.
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      > > Xenon
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      > > Here's the text:
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      > > 5.2 HULL TO DECK JOINTS
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      > > 5.2.1 Hull to Deck Joint with "H" Metal
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      > > Sand outer and inner gel face off 1/2" from the edge the full length of the hull and deck and across the transom.
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      > > Prior to joining the hull and deck, a short piece of "H" metal shall be slid along the joint of both the deck and the hull to insure the "H" metal will fit. The bottom of the "H" metal shall be filled half way up with a polysulphide sealant such as Nauticalk and placed on the hull within one half hour. Care must be taken to insure that the sealant does not fall out. When the "H" metal is pressed down on the hull edge the sealant should ooze out. The top of the "H" metal shall be filled half way up with Nauticalk. Within one half hour the deck shall be placed on the hull and forced down into the "H" metal. When the deck is pressed into the "H" metal sealant should ooze out.
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      > > When riveting, place rivets 3" apart. When double lowers are used the rivet spacing shall be 11/2" from two feet forward of the forward lower to two feet aft of the aft lower.
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      > > Clean the "H" metal within two hours and seal rivet heads. The open corners at the transom and the bow between the "H" metal shall be bonded with 4 oz. of mat and one layer of 3 oz. cloth.
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      > > After installing corner and bow castings, a fillet of sealant shall be wiped between the "H" metal and the fiberglass above and below the "H" metal and the castings.
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      > > The headliner and deck shall be bonded in the deck mold. After trimming the outer and inner gel face should be sanded off 1/2" from the edge, the full length, on both sides and across the transom.
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      > > The hull liner will be placed accurately in the hull while the hull is still in the hull mold. The top edges of the hull and hull liner will be bonded the full length of the hull liner before being pulled from the mold.
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      > > After trimming, the outer and inner gel face should be sanded off 1/2" from the edge, the full length of the hull and across the transom.
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      > > Before joining the hull and deck, a short piece of "H" metal (6"8") should be slid along the joint on both the deck and hull to insure a proper fit. The bottom of the "H" metal should be filled 1/2 to 3/4 of the way up with caulking and placed on the hull. Use a rubber mallet to insure the metal is down. When the "H" metal is down, caulking should ooze out. Drill a hole in the "H" metal with a 13/64" bit and pop rivet. (See Riveting Instructions).
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      > > The top of the "H" metal should be filled with caulking 1/2 to 3/4 of the way up. The deck shall be placed on the hull and forced into the "H" metal. When down caulking will ooze out. Drill and rivet.
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      > > After riveting, clean caulking before it cures. Then seal rivet heads. The corners and bow should then be bonded, (4 oz. of mat and 3 oz. of cloth). Then install gunnel rubber. Insert bottom of rudder in bottom of "H" metal. Use a wedge to run along top. Rubber will fall into place. Install corner and bow casting with machine screw in kit. Then seal around castings and "H" metal, top and bottom, with marine sealer (G.E. White) to insure no leans. Excess sealer should be cleaned before it cures.
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      > > RIVETING
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      > > The rivet spacing should be 3" apart. When double lowers are used the rivets should be 1" to 11/2" apart, 2' forward of forward lower to 2' aft of aft lower.
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      > > 5.2.2 Hull/Deck Joint (without "H" Metal)
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      > > Trim the flange on the hull down to 11/2" overall, except at the bow where you should make a template of the underside of the deck flange from the bow to 3' aft, both port and starboard. Transfer these lines to the hull flanges and trim to the line. Grind off the seam at the bow and stern so the deck will set down evenly.
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      > > Trim the flange on the deck down to 11/2" overall in width and then route the flange to 1/4" thick. At the bow you will have to make a template of the outside of the hull and transfer this to the deck before trimming the forward most three feet, both port and starboard.
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      > > Set deck on hull. First, set in engine, heat riser, and fuel tank.
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      > > Clamp the deck and the hull together in about six points on both sides.
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      > > Starting with the transom and working forward evenly on both sides, drill and countersink screw holes through the deck flange and hull flange, clamping the hull and deck together in a fair line as you go. Use a flathead #8 selftapping screw to pull the deck and hull flange together. Space these 810 inches apart.
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      > > Clean the inside of the joint using Acetone leaving the surface free from grease and other contaminates.
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      > > Mix a fairly thick batch of micro balloons to a consistency that is easily workable with a putty knife and lay up into the recess of the joint about six feet at a time. Make this a cool mixture so you will have from 3045 minutes to work with it. Next, take the mahogany strips that are provided (cut into 6' lengths) and force up into the micro balloons until the bottom of the strips are just above the bottom of the joint. In most areas you can cut some cleat stock (1" x 1" pine) and, using the shelf space or cabinet tops of the hull liner as an anchor base, force the mahogany strips in tight. Before the micro balloons go off, scrape all the excess from the joint with a putty knife. Continue this process completely around the hull. With micro balloons fill in all areas so you have a flush joint from the deck to the hull. When the micro balloons have cured apply a strip bond across the joint, extending 3" upward on the deck and down the side of the hull.
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      > > The bonds should consist of one layer of 3 oz. mat and one layer of 71/2 oz. cloth. It is not necessary to make the bonds a continuous strip. Cut the pieces 3 or 4 feet long and overlap the ends 23 inches. The mat comes in 5" widths and the cloth in 6" widths. This allows the cloth to overlap the mat 1/2" and makes it a neat, professional looking bond. Use body putty to fill any small imperfections. The joint is now complete.
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      > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "clayton" <claytonwbarton@> wrote:
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      > > > I posted some pictures of the hull to deck seem after I removed the wood rub rail on the seam. It seems like the only thing the bolts did was hold the rub rail on as they don't really pass through the deck or the hull but the fiberglass laminate connecting the two. From the inside it looked like just one layer of tabbing for reinforcement but now looking through the bolt holes I can see its a really thick lay up.
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      > > > The outside seem looks like it was ground down either when they trimmed the hull and deck out of the mold or someone later when they put the rub rail on after glassing the seam from the inside.
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      > > > I'm going to fill the holes and gap with thickened epoxy and smooth it out to a flush surface. I want remake the wood rub rails as they had to be destroyed because the bolts could not be removed from the inside do to lack of space for a grinder. I set my skill saw for a shallow depth to cut the wood every couple inches and hammered/pried the rub rail off and intend to grind the bolts off from the exterior. This seem to have been the best approach as apposed to grinding them off in confined spaces.
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      > > > What do your hull to deck seams look like? Input, thoughts and comments encouraged.
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