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Re: Winter Chores

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  • xherrmann
    Loaded question ? Pshaw, I was just trying to get a discussion going about the question because I ve been wrestling with the concept myself. I had settled on
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 1, 2011
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      "Loaded question"? Pshaw, I was just trying to get a discussion going about the question because I've been wrestling with the concept myself. I had settled on trying to figure out how to duplicate wire-to-rope construction using small diameter Dyneema (or some such synthetic rope) as the wire, but I've come to doubt that the UV resistance of the Dyneema will hold up to constantly being abraded up at the masthead - and I realized the diminished weight wouldn't necessarily prove beneficial on balance the first time I momentarily let go of the halyard to see the shackle run freely up to the masthead on its own.
      A loaded question is one like "have you stopped beating your wife?" Didn't mean it like that (and I have no knowledge whether you have a wife or not). : \
      I do remember now sailing on another C25 which had developed "meat hooks" in the wire where it wrapped at the mast winch. Another one yet was rigged with a cascading tackle shackled to the mast step which was hooked to the halyards eye-splice thimble to provide a 4:1 purchase once the sail was fully hoisted.
      Yet another had been fitted with a custom masthead four sheaves wide yielding positions for eight internal halyards and other lines: main and jib halyards; spare main and jib halyards, port and starboard spinnaker halyards, topping lift, and ? (I don't remember... maybe a halyard for hoisting the motor out of the well.)
      The great benefit of moving to internal halyards is you get to use each of the four sheaves at the masthead for it's own halyard.


      Xenon

      "To each his own."


      --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <cruznmd@...> wrote:
      >
      > That is a loaded question that would turn this into another endless "what's the best anchor?" style debate.
      >
      > It's just how I prefer to rig my boat and I'll leave it at that.
      >
      > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "xherrmann" <xherrmann@> wrote:
      > >
      > > What are the benefits of switching to all-rope halyards?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <cruznmd@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > PhilM,
      > > >
      > > > I can't imagine what you must be going through. Sounds pretty stressful, handling other people's vessels like that.
      > > >
      > > > My winter boat chores have consisted of
      > > > -routine outboard engine maintenance.
      > > > -some slight cutting of the engine area to allow my Honda 9.9 4-stroke to latch in the "up" position.
      > > > -upgrade from the old Wilcox-Crittenden winches to Barlow 23-2's.
      > > > -mast upgrades including- anchor light, Windex, new spreader lights, probably a new steaming light, replacing the sheaves for all-rope halyards and adding a VHF antenna.
      > > >
      > > > The mast work is frustrating as there is very little "real estate" up there for adding things and there are no ports for running wiring.
      > > >
      > > > Anyone who wants to share pictures of their masthead would have my gratitude.
      > > >
      > > > Rich A.
      > > >
      > > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "philmbray2001" <philmbray2001@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I haven't posted for a while because I have been busy with slightly more winter chores than usual. As berth holder secretary of my Yacht Club I have had to organise bi-annual dredging of our marina.
      > > > >
      > > > > This involved the moving of 200 plus boats. Twenty boats were lifted into the yard, while 85 had to be accommodated in the nearby municipal marina. The rest had to gather in one half of our marina while the other half was dredged, then they all had to be moved over to the other side for the second half to be worked. The majority of our members were able to move themselves but quite a few were unable to do so because of engine problems, non-availability, etc., Can you imagine towing a ten ton, 45 foot motor cruiser with an open workboat powered by a 15hp outboard! This together with the breeze and river flow provided a few hairy moments! I was decidedly pleased with my little boat during my personal move. Then, of course, they all had to go back home again when the work was finished. All this in sub-zero temperatures with heavy snow (for part of the time) and frost and ice everywhere. Even the river froze for a time, never seen before.
      > > > >
      > > > > " I don't tie my boat up like this!"
      > > > >
      > > > > " These aren't my warps!"
      > > > >
      > > > > " I should be facing the other way!"
      > > > >
      > > > > These are a few examples of the (printable) comments coming at me thick and fast. To compound the problem the lock gates to the sea are now closed for 35 days for repairs - right in the middle of the cod season too! I will be glad to see this winter over.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Richard
      Fine, we can discuss it in so far as I ll tell you what I m doing and why, but I m committed to my decisons and don t plan to change them. First, I have opted
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 1, 2011
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        Fine, we can discuss it in so far as I'll tell you what I'm doing and why, but I'm committed to my decisons and don't plan to change them.

        First, I have opted not to convert to internal halyards. I'm not interested in cutting holes in my mast, or potentially causing stress risers from these cuts, which -might- lead to eventual mast failure. Yes, the odds are slim, but it's more work than I want to do, and I don't feel like incurring the risk.

        Second, the edges of my 42+ year old sheaves are crumbling, AND I hate wire halyards, the meathooks, and the wire-to-rope interface so I'm converting to all-rope. I have replaced the sheaves with modern materials and I'm probably going with a 5/16th VPC line.

        I debated going with a larger dyneema or amsteel line, and stripping the jacket back and running the small core over the sheaves in a style similar to the old wire/rope halyard method where I'd have a fat rope for my hands, and the small dyneema would run over the sheaves, but I'm satisfied that I can handle the fully jacketed, 1/4" or 5/16" VPC with my hands and the halyard winch comfortably enough.

        As for my choice of line, the VPC is a "middle of the road" low-stretch, hybrid line. It's not dyneema or amsteel, but it's better than Sta-Set. It is a vectran core and a polyester jacket.

        Here's a link:
        http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|118|311417|314170&id=1159461

        Above all, I'm out to keep things simple and reduce required maintenance or opportunities for failure. I'm not interested in 8 internal halyards, cascading tackle or any of that mess. I added a spin halyard during the summer and it's fine as is, so I'm only upgrading the main and jib halyards.

        --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "xherrmann" <xherrmann@...> wrote:
        >
        > "Loaded question"? Pshaw, I was just trying to get a discussion going about the question because I've been wrestling with the concept myself. I had settled on trying to figure out how to duplicate wire-to-rope construction using small diameter Dyneema (or some such synthetic rope) as the wire, but I've come to doubt that the UV resistance of the Dyneema will hold up to constantly being abraded up at the masthead - and I realized the diminished weight wouldn't necessarily prove beneficial on balance the first time I momentarily let go of the halyard to see the shackle run freely up to the masthead on its own.
        > A loaded question is one like "have you stopped beating your wife?" Didn't mean it like that (and I have no knowledge whether you have a wife or not). : \
        > I do remember now sailing on another C25 which had developed "meat hooks" in the wire where it wrapped at the mast winch. Another one yet was rigged with a cascading tackle shackled to the mast step which was hooked to the halyards eye-splice thimble to provide a 4:1 purchase once the sail was fully hoisted.
        > Yet another had been fitted with a custom masthead four sheaves wide yielding positions for eight internal halyards and other lines: main and jib halyards; spare main and jib halyards, port and starboard spinnaker halyards, topping lift, and ? (I don't remember... maybe a halyard for hoisting the motor out of the well.)
        > The great benefit of moving to internal halyards is you get to use each of the four sheaves at the masthead for it's own halyard.
        >
        >
        > Xenon
        >
        > "To each his own."
        >
        >
        > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <cruznmd@> wrote:
        > >
        > > That is a loaded question that would turn this into another endless "what's the best anchor?" style debate.
        > >
        > > It's just how I prefer to rig my boat and I'll leave it at that.
        > >
        > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "xherrmann" <xherrmann@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > What are the benefits of switching to all-rope halyards?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <cruznmd@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > PhilM,
        > > > >
        > > > > I can't imagine what you must be going through. Sounds pretty stressful, handling other people's vessels like that.
        > > > >
        > > > > My winter boat chores have consisted of
        > > > > -routine outboard engine maintenance.
        > > > > -some slight cutting of the engine area to allow my Honda 9.9 4-stroke to latch in the "up" position.
        > > > > -upgrade from the old Wilcox-Crittenden winches to Barlow 23-2's.
        > > > > -mast upgrades including- anchor light, Windex, new spreader lights, probably a new steaming light, replacing the sheaves for all-rope halyards and adding a VHF antenna.
        > > > >
        > > > > The mast work is frustrating as there is very little "real estate" up there for adding things and there are no ports for running wiring.
        > > > >
        > > > > Anyone who wants to share pictures of their masthead would have my gratitude.
        > > > >
        > > > > Rich A.
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "philmbray2001" <philmbray2001@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I haven't posted for a while because I have been busy with slightly more winter chores than usual. As berth holder secretary of my Yacht Club I have had to organise bi-annual dredging of our marina.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > This involved the moving of 200 plus boats. Twenty boats were lifted into the yard, while 85 had to be accommodated in the nearby municipal marina. The rest had to gather in one half of our marina while the other half was dredged, then they all had to be moved over to the other side for the second half to be worked. The majority of our members were able to move themselves but quite a few were unable to do so because of engine problems, non-availability, etc., Can you imagine towing a ten ton, 45 foot motor cruiser with an open workboat powered by a 15hp outboard! This together with the breeze and river flow provided a few hairy moments! I was decidedly pleased with my little boat during my personal move. Then, of course, they all had to go back home again when the work was finished. All this in sub-zero temperatures with heavy snow (for part of the time) and frost and ice everywhere. Even the river froze for a time, never seen before.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > " I don't tie my boat up like this!"
        > > > > >
        > > > > > " These aren't my warps!"
        > > > > >
        > > > > > " I should be facing the other way!"
        > > > > >
        > > > > > These are a few examples of the (printable) comments coming at me thick and fast. To compound the problem the lock gates to the sea are now closed for 35 days for repairs - right in the middle of the cod season too! I will be glad to see this winter over.
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • xherrmann
        Discuss? I m a bit concerned any comments or questions I might pose could be construed as a challenge or insult. :) I will say that only I mentioned the
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 2, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Discuss? I'm a bit concerned any comments or questions I might pose could be construed as a challenge or insult. :)

          I will say that only I mentioned the eight-halyard C25 masthead modification because you had lamented the lack of real estate: I thought that mod was quite a bit over the top myself. As for the "mess" of the cascaded tackle I described, it was actually an elegant solution to allow a woman to get 300 lbs. of halyard tension in the absence of a working halyard winch.

          The 43+ year old masthead sheaves on my boat are in fine fettle, though I remember the first time I lowered my mast it was because I thought they were bollixed up. I found merely that one wire had jumped off a sheave and become wedged between it and the plate separating the two sides. (At the same time, I fabricated a stainless steel plate to cover the sheaves and trap the wires against them so as to avoid having this ever happen again, which it hasn't.)

          I'm probably going to stick with wire-to-rope for the time being since I share with others an aversion to putting slots in the mast, and have a strong dislike for increased windage of all rope halyards. (The prime reason, perhaps, why I have yet to rig a proper spinnaker halyard.)

          It's not due to the dangers from stresses that I resist cutting slots - because if they are properly sized, staggered and carefully chamfered and rounded I believe those don't amount to much - but internal halyards do add to noise whilst at anchor, and perhaps also increase the dangers from corrosion at the mast base due to salty halyards being fed up into the mast at the end of a spirited day of sailing.

          One tip I learned too late (the first time around) for anyone contemplating rewiring their mast: Nylon wire-ties put every couple or so feet on the mast wiring harness and left with their tails hanging long will imobilize the wires in the mast and keep them from slapping around.

          Xenon

          --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <cruznmd@...> wrote:
          >
          > Fine, we can discuss it in so far as I'll tell you what I'm doing and why, but I'm committed to my decisons and don't plan to change them.
          >
          > First, I have opted not to convert to internal halyards. I'm not interested in cutting holes in my mast, or potentially causing stress risers from these cuts, which -might- lead to eventual mast failure. Yes, the odds are slim, but it's more work than I want to do, and I don't feel like incurring the risk.
          >
          > Second, the edges of my 42+ year old sheaves are crumbling, AND I hate wire halyards, the meathooks, and the wire-to-rope interface so I'm converting to all-rope. I have replaced the sheaves with modern materials and I'm probably going with a 5/16th VPC line.
          >
          > I debated going with a larger dyneema or amsteel line, and stripping the jacket back and running the small core over the sheaves in a style similar to the old wire/rope halyard method where I'd have a fat rope for my hands, and the small dyneema would run over the sheaves, but I'm satisfied that I can handle the fully jacketed, 1/4" or 5/16" VPC with my hands and the halyard winch comfortably enough.
          >
          > As for my choice of line, the VPC is a "middle of the road" low-stretch, hybrid line. It's not dyneema or amsteel, but it's better than Sta-Set. It is a vectran core and a polyester jacket.
          >
          > Here's a link:
          > http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|118|311417|314170&id=1159461
          >
          > Above all, I'm out to keep things simple and reduce required maintenance or opportunities for failure. I'm not interested in 8 internal halyards, cascading tackle or any of that mess. I added a spin halyard during the summer and it's fine as is, so I'm only upgrading the main and jib halyards.
          >
          > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "xherrmann" <xherrmann@> wrote:
          > >
          > > "Loaded question"? Pshaw, I was just trying to get a discussion going about the question because I've been wrestling with the concept myself. I had settled on trying to figure out how to duplicate wire-to-rope construction using small diameter Dyneema (or some such synthetic rope) as the wire, but I've come to doubt that the UV resistance of the Dyneema will hold up to constantly being abraded up at the masthead - and I realized the diminished weight wouldn't necessarily prove beneficial on balance the first time I momentarily let go of the halyard to see the shackle run freely up to the masthead on its own.
          > > A loaded question is one like "have you stopped beating your wife?" Didn't mean it like that (and I have no knowledge whether you have a wife or not). : \
          > > I do remember now sailing on another C25 which had developed "meat hooks" in the wire where it wrapped at the mast winch. Another one yet was rigged with a cascading tackle shackled to the mast step which was hooked to the halyards eye-splice thimble to provide a 4:1 purchase once the sail was fully hoisted.
          > > Yet another had been fitted with a custom masthead four sheaves wide yielding positions for eight internal halyards and other lines: main and jib halyards; spare main and jib halyards, port and starboard spinnaker halyards, topping lift, and ? (I don't remember... maybe a halyard for hoisting the motor out of the well.)
          > > The great benefit of moving to internal halyards is you get to use each of the four sheaves at the masthead for it's own halyard.
          > >
          > >
          > > Xenon
          > >
          > > "To each his own."
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <cruznmd@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > That is a loaded question that would turn this into another endless "what's the best anchor?" style debate.
          > > >
          > > > It's just how I prefer to rig my boat and I'll leave it at that.
          > > >
          > > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "xherrmann" <xherrmann@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > What are the benefits of switching to all-rope halyards?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <cruznmd@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > PhilM,
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I can't imagine what you must be going through. Sounds pretty stressful, handling other people's vessels like that.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > My winter boat chores have consisted of
          > > > > > -routine outboard engine maintenance.
          > > > > > -some slight cutting of the engine area to allow my Honda 9.9 4-stroke to latch in the "up" position.
          > > > > > -upgrade from the old Wilcox-Crittenden winches to Barlow 23-2's.
          > > > > > -mast upgrades including- anchor light, Windex, new spreader lights, probably a new steaming light, replacing the sheaves for all-rope halyards and adding a VHF antenna.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > The mast work is frustrating as there is very little "real estate" up there for adding things and there are no ports for running wiring.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Anyone who wants to share pictures of their masthead would have my gratitude.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Rich A.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In Coronado25@yahoogroups.com, "philmbray2001" <philmbray2001@> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > I haven't posted for a while because I have been busy with slightly more winter chores than usual. As berth holder secretary of my Yacht Club I have had to organise bi-annual dredging of our marina.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > This involved the moving of 200 plus boats. Twenty boats were lifted into the yard, while 85 had to be accommodated in the nearby municipal marina. The rest had to gather in one half of our marina while the other half was dredged, then they all had to be moved over to the other side for the second half to be worked. The majority of our members were able to move themselves but quite a few were unable to do so because of engine problems, non-availability, etc., Can you imagine towing a ten ton, 45 foot motor cruiser with an open workboat powered by a 15hp outboard! This together with the breeze and river flow provided a few hairy moments! I was decidedly pleased with my little boat during my personal move. Then, of course, they all had to go back home again when the work was finished. All this in sub-zero temperatures with heavy snow (for part of the time) and frost and ice everywhere. Even the river froze for a time, never seen before.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > " I don't tie my boat up like this!"
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > " These aren't my warps!"
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > " I should be facing the other way!"
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > These are a few examples of the (printable) comments coming at me thick and fast. To compound the problem the lock gates to the sea are now closed for 35 days for repairs - right in the middle of the cod season too! I will be glad to see this winter over.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
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