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Re: [Connemara_Pony] Need some help in researching ponies

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  • maureen m
    Well put Karen.(I think that Balius Rhyddespence also went upper level. Do you know?) I personally want someone who won t be a problem the older I get.
    Message 1 of 147 , Sep 5, 2011
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      Well put Karen.(I think that Balius Rhyddespence also went upper level.  Do you know?)  I personally want someone who won't be  a problem the older I get.  QUIET is NOT a dirty word for me!
      Maureen
      On Sep 5, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Karen wrote:

       

      There are plenty of Connemaras "doing" dressage.  Just not too many at the upper levels.  Probably mainly because they simply aren't the "go to" breed for it.  Most people think they need a warmblood to do upper level. But I can think of a few off hand, including Custusha's Cashel Rock and Canal Laurenston.  And I can think of many many who did well at the lower levels. 

      Come to think of it, I do think Ardceltic Art is currently showing at 4th level, and he's winning at the intermediate level in eventing too. You see lots of halfbreds at that level, but not many purebreds.

      Purebred Connemaras have never really been big in the international dressage arena. Halfbreds like Seldom Scene and Last Scene were though!  It seems that's the way it goes in the international scene. Most of the "ponies" who have done well internationally outside of the pony divisions, have been halfbreds, not purebreds.  Which is fine with me.  I know I can take a nice connemara mare, cross it to a nice TB stallion, and get a nice halfbred that is taller, longer strided, and fancier moving.  And if I'm not interested in quite that much athletic ability (they can be difficult to ride, compared to the average purebred Connemara), but still want a pony that can take me quite far in any disipline I want, I'm going to go for the purebred.  I don't see any need to fix what ain't broke:)

      There are plenty of purebreds out there who are good enough to do pretty much any disipline up to a high level.  Perhaps not quite good enough to show against the big horses internationally, but good enough to go quite far.  How many people really need an international level horse anyway?  99% of us need a good minded, sound, athletic but no so athletic as to bounce us off over a fence or at the sitting trot, pony.  That's not to say there aren't those few good enough to go to international levels.  But, that's not what they are bred for, and on the average, that's not what they are bought for, and that's not what the vast majority are going to breed for.

      On 05/09/2011 17:58, mary mitchell wrote:

       

      It’s fine if none of you want to find a dressage pony in the Connemara breed J

       

      However, as one of those riders that can take a pony pretty much as far as it can go, I want a pony that is athletic and has the ability and brain to be trained.

       

      I do NOT have international aspirations (obviously – I am too old! Lol!) but  I DO want to be able to find individuals that are able to do what I want.

       

      20 years ago the Connemara WAS in the international arena for dressage – so to say it isn’t something they should be bred for is not quite true.

       

      Also, perhaps what I look for in a trainable animal is different than most -  I don’t really care about the trot per se... What I do care about is the hind end, the ability of the joints to compress, the pony to sit – to have a very clear and correct 3 beat canter,  to be very balanced, to have very good usage of the back,  to have horse like gaits (ie not a “pony trot”) and above all to be trainable.  

       

      I don’t know what is happening in Europe,  but I know here in the US  (where we don’t have much in the ways of pony dressage) there is an ever larger market for a smaller animal  that can do the “fun” stuff.  Ie be trained to more than 2nd level.  

       

      If Connemara were able to do dressage years ago they should be able to do it now. Perhaps not complete against the best of the best, but to be  competitive on the regional and maybe national level would be super.

       

      There are ponies out there that are doing this today. So it is possible J

       

       

       

      From: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen
      Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:00 AM
      To: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Connemara_Pony] Need some help in researching ponies

       

       

      And I agree with both you and Heather.  I'll breed a crossbred, probably connemara to tb, if I want an international version of a Connemara.  I like the breed the way it is!

      On 05/09/2011 15:39, Wildwych@... wrote:

       

      Hear!  Hear!  Heather.

       

      I want to breed highly successful all-rounders.  Most of my ponies will end up being able to take their riders further than the riders can go, though not to the top of any discipline.  Some will have the talent to do really well at one discipline, but finding the home and rider who can take them there....well, that's another matter.

       

      Heather you are absolutely right:  I DON'T want my breed to be changed to consistently produce winners at the highest levels of pony dressage.  There's a breed that DOES that, and I purposefully don't breed GRPs.  Very few of my potential clients can really RIDE GRPs due to the huge movement, small bodies, and sometimes iffy temperaments.  I breed Connemaras, which is an enormously successful breed in its own right.  My breed is already the mount that can pick up the riders who spent a zillion dollars on a GRP, just to find it wasn't the pony they thought they needed.   

       

      If someone want to win at the highest levels in dressage in open and competitive markets, go buy a breed that's meant to do that; don't try to "improve" mine.

       

      Cheers,

       

      Mary Prewitt

      Wildwych Connemaras




    • Lisa Etzel
      I see, I went and looked, I guess the USDF winners are listed. Lisa E. ... From: Donna Duckworth To: Connemara_Pony
      Message 147 of 147 , Sep 11, 2011
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        I see, I went and looked, I guess the USDF winners are listed. 

        Lisa E.




        -----Original Message-----
        From: Donna Duckworth <balmullofarm@...>
        To: Connemara_Pony <Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: Connemara_Pony <Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 4:52 pm
        Subject: Re: [Connemara_Pony] Re: ACPS/USDF Dressage winners

         
        We have achievement awards and horse of the year awards.  What were you thinking of?  Donna D

        Sent from my iPod

        On Sep 11, 2011, at 9:51 AM, Lisa Etzel <IAPonyGirl@...> wrote:

         
        Hi Sally,

        Maybe we need some ACPS dressage awards?

        Lisa E.




        -----Original Message-----
        From: Sally <stoxnard@...>
        To: Connemara_Pony <Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sun, Sep 11, 2011 8:13 am
        Subject: [Connemara_Pony] Re: ACPS/USDF Dressage winners

         
        HI Mary
        no spreadsheet that covers years back
        there might be one in the new book we are starting to put together
        but the Awards page goes back many more years with the An Tostal Award which is the leading performance sire of the year
        so if you look at that list you will see who is out performing
        but we have never specifically given a dressage award in the ACPS
        if you email me directly I can tell you who the stallions are to look at

        glad you like the electronic magazine
        I think it is progress
        and we have had mostly pos feedback
        Sally O


        --- In Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com, "mary mitchell" <mary@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Sally â€"
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks for this info â€" is there any way to see what is in the databases for years past?
        >
        >
        >
        > Also, great job on providing the magazine in an e format! J
        >
        >
        >
        > Mary
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sally
        > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 7:56 PM
        > To: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Connemara_Pony] Re: ACPS/USDF Dressage winners
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > HI Mary
        >
        > if you look on the ACPS site, you will find all the high point USDF Connemara Dressage ponies since 2005 listed
        > there are Ardan Mor and Shammer Jake doing PSG in 2005
        >
        > go to acps.org
        > then the awards tab
        > then scroll down to the National Awards
        > then scroll down to USDF and all the winners are there by year
        >
        > Sally Oxnard
        >
        > --- In Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>; , "mary mitchell" <mary@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I am not sure why, in this day and age, that we don’t have extensive and accessible databases with this kind of info.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Why does the ACPS not have a database available for this kind of thing?
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Why does the International Body not have a data base for performance ponies? It is really frustrating. We should borrow from the Warmbloods the ability of consumers to do extensive and deep research J (we should also performance test but that is another topic altogether)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > mary
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>; ] On Behalf Of Lisa Etzel
        > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:20 PM
        > > To: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>;
        > > Subject: Re: [Connemara_Pony] Need some help in researching ponies
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > It would be nice if the USDF would let you look at previous all breed winners. I was just scouring their website to try and find that info. but it doesn't seem to be there. Would be helpful.
        > >
        > > Mary, I went through the same thing as you are going thru right now, but it was several years ago when I was doing the exact same thing: trying to find out which lines were more suitable for dressage.
        > >
        > > Lisa E.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: mary mitchell <mary@>
        > > To: Connemara_Pony <Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>; >
        > > Sent: Mon, Sep 5, 2011 3:05 pm
        > > Subject: RE: [Connemara_Pony] Need some help in researching ponies
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I am not sure why my posts have gotten such strong response.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I did not say I was looking for Totilas in a pony package, nor did I suggest changing the Connemara into something it is not (although how I could do that with a closed stud book is not clear)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I said I am looking for those bloodlines that excel in dressage â€" not 1st 2nd level â€"(which are fine goals) but actual higher levels ie: 4th + Why this should provide such a negative response I don’t know â€" especially considering that many ponies have done it in the past and there are several that are doing it now.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > If a breeder is not looking to breed for that market â€" that is of course fine.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > From: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>; <mailto:Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>; ?> ] On Behalf Of maureen m
        > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:56 AM
        > > To: Connemara_Pony@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Connemara_Pony%40yahoogroups.com>;
        > > Subject: Re: [Connemara_Pony] Need some help in researching ponies
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > DITTO Heather and Mary,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > It i s the reasons I too went into Connemaras. I have had VERY spirited, big, and hard to control performance horses, and many of the people who contact me have also. THEY do not want that type of pony or horse. They are looking for a reliable, pretty mount that they can ride and compete on locally and the disposition is the thing they most ask about. IF this is not what is wanted, look elsewhere. Do not change a "good thing" to meet fads or try to be something we are not! Many ponies DO excel at so many things that others do not. Lets keep it that way.......
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Maureen Mathisen
        > >
        > > blueoak@
        > >
        > > http://www.blueoakconnemaras.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Wildwych@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Hear! Hear! Heather.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > I want to breed highly successful all-rounders. Most of my ponies will end up being able to take their riders further than the riders can go, though not to the top of any discipline. Some will have the talent to do really well at one discipline, but finding the home and rider who can take them there....well, that's another matter.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Heather you are absolutely right: I DON'T want my breed to be changed to consistently produce winners at the highest levels of pony dressage. There's a breed that DOES that, and I purposefully don't breed GRPs. Very few of my potential clients can really RIDE GRPs due to the huge movement, small bodies, and sometimes iffy temperaments. I breed Connemaras, which is an enormously successful breed in its own right. My breed is already the mount that can pick up the riders who spent a zillion dollars on a GRP, just to find it wasn't the pony they thought they needed.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > If someone want to win at the highest levels in dressage in open and competitive markets, go buy a breed that's meant to do that; don't try to "improve" mine.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Mary Prewitt
        > >
        > > Wildwych Connemaras
        > >
        >

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