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Japanese ATF Proposal

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  • MaX G Cunningham
    New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet to be Made In Japan by Steve Levenstein, August 11, 2007 [Not your grandfather s Mitsubishi...] Not your grandfather s
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007

      New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet

      to be "Made In Japan"

      by Steve Levenstein, August 11, 2007
      Not your grandfather's Mitsubishi...Not your grandfather's Mitsubishi...
      The words "Mitsubishi fighter" still have the power to send a chill down the spines of American war history buffs. It was, after all, just 65 years ago that the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" ruled the skies over the Pacific by outclassing the vast majority of Allied aircraft sent to oppose it.

      ...but gramps sure would be proud!...but gramps sure would be proud!
      Now it seems that a descendant of the legendary Zero may soon be stretching its wings across the skies of Japan - and perhaps further afield. Alarmed by new developments in fighter aircraft technology displayed by traditional adversaries China and Russia, JASDF (Japan Air Self-Defense Forces) planners have been attempting to acquire the American F-22 Raptor fighter to replace their current F-15 Eagles. The F-22 is packed with the latest avionic and stealth technology but its high tech features have the Pentagon concerned about security leaks.

      Stealthy, speedy and made in JapanStealthy, speedy and made in Japan
      Even though the United States would lose out financially by not selling Japan the F-22, security issues are front & center these days and Japan is now looking to its own aircraft designers to provide a home-grown solution.

      "Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber"Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber
      So it was that on August 9, the above photo was taken of what may be Japan's next-generation fighter. The 46 foot long carbon fiber mock-up was designed and built by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, builder of the Zero, at their Komakiminami Factory in Aichi prefecture. Freshly returned from France where it had undergone testing of its stealth technology, the sleek mock-up foreshadows what just might be the future of Japanese military aviation. (via News On Japan and newsinfo.inquirer, Zero image c/o murphybytes)

      Steve Levenstein
      Japanese Innovations Writer
      InventorSpot.com

    • Parazo Jerico
      Imagine, the Japanese Zero was made by a mediocre Japanese manufacturing industry, what more if a now very strong Mitsubihsi. will try to make an F-22
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 10, 2007
        Imagine, the Japanese Zero was made by a mediocre
        Japanese manufacturing industry, what more if a now
        very strong Mitsubihsi. will try to make an "F-22"
        knock-off. Don't laugh! Some of the best and most
        cost effective sports cars are Japanese (GT-R Skyline,
        Toyota Supra, Honda 2000..etc). I just wish they
        would copy the YF-23 instead. Its faster and a lot
        more beautiful and stealthy. Maneuverability? just
        add thrust vectoring to the design.

        Who knows, maybe they'll reprogram Asimo to fly one!



        --- MaX G Cunningham <max_g_cunningham@...>
        wrote:

        > New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet to be "Made In
        > Japan"by Steve Levenstein,
        > August 11, 2007 [Not your grandfather's
        > Mitsubishi...] Not your
        > grandfather's Mitsubishi...
        > The words "Mitsubishi fighter" still have the power
        > to send a chill down
        > the spines of American war history buffs. It was,
        > after all, just 65
        > years ago that the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" ruled the
        > skies over the
        > Pacific by outclassing the vast majority of Allied
        > aircraft sent to
        > oppose it.
        >
        > [...but gramps sure would be proud!] ...but gramps
        > sure would be proud!
        > Now it seems that a descendant of the legendary Zero
        > may soon be
        > stretching its wings across the skies of Japan - and
        > perhaps further
        > afield. Alarmed by new developments in fighter
        > aircraft technology
        > displayed by traditional adversaries China and
        > Russia, JASDF (Japan Air
        > Self-Defense Forces) planners have been attempting
        > to acquire the
        > American F-22 Raptor fighter to replace their
        > current F-15 Eagles. The
        > F-22 is packed with the latest avionic and stealth
        > technology but its
        > high tech features have the Pentagon concerned about
        > security
        >
        <http://inventorspot.com/articles/new_jasdf_stealth_fighter_jet_be_6254#\
        > > leaks.
        >
        > [Stealthy, speedy and made in Japan] Stealthy,
        > speedy and made in Japan
        > Even though the United States would lose out
        > financially by not selling
        > Japan the F-22, security issues are front & center
        > these days and Japan
        > is now looking to its own aircraft designers to
        > provide a home-grown
        > solution.
        >
        > ["Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber] "Son
        > of Zero", resplendent
        > in carbon fiber
        > So it was that on August 9, the above photo was
        > taken of what may be
        > Japan's next-generation fighter. The 46 foot long
        > carbon fiber mock-up
        > was designed and built by Mitsubishi Heavy
        > Industries, builder of the
        > Zero, at their Komakiminami Factory in Aichi
        > prefecture. Freshly
        > returned from France where it had undergone testing
        > of its stealth
        > technology, the sleek mock-up foreshadows what just
        > might be the future
        > of Japanese military
        >
        <http://inventorspot.com/articles/new_jasdf_stealth_fighter_jet_be_6254#\
        > > aviation. (via News On Japan
        > <http://www.newsonjapan.com/> and
        > newsinfo.inquirer
        >
        <http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view_article.php?articl\
        > e_id=81919> , Zero image c/o murphybytes
        > <http://www.murphybytes.com/?m=200512> )
        >
        > Steve Levenstein
        > <http://inventorspot.com/blog/steve_levenstein>
        > Japanese Innovations Writer
        > InventorSpot.com <http://www.inventorspot.com/>
        >
        >
        >




        ____________________________________________________________________________________
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        http://farechase.yahoo.com/
      • Brett Messimer
        I ve got a bet - I will bet that this fighter, if it is made, will actually OUT PERFORM the F/A-22. In all aspects - manouverability, stealth, radar, etc. Any
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 11, 2007
          I've got a bet - I will bet that this fighter, if it is made, will actually OUT PERFORM the F/A-22.  In all aspects - manouverability, stealth, radar, etc. 
           
          Any takers???????
           
          B


          MaX G Cunningham <max_g_cunningham@...> wrote:

          New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet

          to be "Made In Japan"

          by Steve Levenstein, August 11, 2007
          Not your grandfather's Mitsubishi...Not your grandfather's Mitsubishi...
          The words "Mitsubishi fighter" still have the power to send a chill down the spines of American war history buffs. It was, after all, just 65 years ago that the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" ruled the skies over the Pacific by outclassing the vast majority of Allied aircraft sent to oppose it.

          ...but
gramps sure would be proud!...but gramps sure would be proud!
          Now it seems that a descendant of the legendary Zero may soon be stretching its wings across the skies of Japan - and perhaps further afield. Alarmed by new developments in fighter aircraft technology displayed by traditional adversaries China and Russia, JASDF (Japan Air Self-Defense Forces) planners have been attempting to acquire the American F-22 Raptor fighter to replace their current F-15 Eagles. The F-22 is packed with the latest avionic and stealth technology but its high tech features have the Pentagon concerned about security leaks.

          Stealthy, speedy and made in JapanStealthy, speedy and made in Japan
          Even though the United States would lose out financially by not selling Japan the F-22, security issues are front & center these days and Japan is now looking to its own aircraft designers to provide a home-grown solution.

          "Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber"Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber
          So it was that on August 9, the above photo was taken of what may be Japan's next-generation fighter. The 46 foot long carbon fiber mock-up was designed and built by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, builder of the Zero, at their Komakiminami Factory in Aichi prefecture. Freshly returned from France where it had undergone testing of its stealth technology, the sleek mock-up foreshadows what just might be the future of Japanese military aviation. (via News On Japan and newsinfo.inquirer, Zero image c/o murphybytes)

          Steve Levenstein
          Japanese Innovations Writer
          InventorSpot.com



          Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

        • MaX G Cunningham
          The Japanese have been making the best cars, motors, motorcycles, heavy equipment, electronics, & robots for decades. Why not high perf mil. AC ? I like
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 11, 2007
            The Japanese have been making the best cars, motors, motorcycles,
            heavy equipment, electronics, & robots for decades.

            Why not high perf mil. AC ?

            I like the look of that bird, a lot sleeker and less angular
            than the crummy F-22. If it looks good, then it IS good, is the axiom.

            MC

            --- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, Parazo Jerico
            <jericoparazo@...> wrote:
            >
            > Imagine, the Japanese Zero was made by a mediocre
            > Japanese manufacturing industry, what more if a now
            > very strong Mitsubihsi. will try to make an "F-22"
            > knock-off. Don't laugh! Some of the best and most
            > cost effective sports cars are Japanese (GT-R Skyline,
            > Toyota Supra, Honda 2000..etc). I just wish they
            > would copy the YF-23 instead. Its faster and a lot
            > more beautiful and stealthy. Maneuverability? just
            > add thrust vectoring to the design.
            >
            > Who knows, maybe they'll reprogram Asimo to fly one!
            >
            >
            >
            > --- MaX G Cunningham <max_g_cunningham@...>
            > wrote:
            >
            > > New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet to be "Made In
            > > Japan"by Steve Levenstein,
            > > August 11, 2007 [Not your grandfather's
            > > Mitsubishi...] Not your
            > > grandfather's Mitsubishi...
            > > The words "Mitsubishi fighter" still have the power
            > > to send a chill down
            > > the spines of American war history buffs. It was,
            > > after all, just 65
            > > years ago that the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" ruled the
            > > skies over the
            > > Pacific by outclassing the vast majority of Allied
            > > aircraft sent to
            > > oppose it.
            > >
            > > [...but gramps sure would be proud!] ...but gramps
            > > sure would be proud!
            > > Now it seems that a descendant of the legendary Zero
            > > may soon be
            > > stretching its wings across the skies of Japan - and
            > > perhaps further
            > > afield. Alarmed by new developments in fighter
            > > aircraft technology
            > > displayed by traditional adversaries China and
            > > Russia, JASDF (Japan Air
            > > Self-Defense Forces) planners have been attempting
            > > to acquire the
            > > American F-22 Raptor fighter to replace their
            > > current F-15 Eagles. The
            > > F-22 is packed with the latest avionic and stealth
            > > technology but its
            > > high tech features have the Pentagon concerned about
            > > security
            > >
            >
            <http://inventorspot.com/articles/new_jasdf_stealth_fighter_jet_be_6254#\
            > > > leaks.
            > >
            > > [Stealthy, speedy and made in Japan] Stealthy,
            > > speedy and made in Japan
            > > Even though the United States would lose out
            > > financially by not selling
            > > Japan the F-22, security issues are front & center
            > > these days and Japan
            > > is now looking to its own aircraft designers to
            > > provide a home-grown
            > > solution.
            > >
            > > ["Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber] "Son
            > > of Zero", resplendent
            > > in carbon fiber
            > > So it was that on August 9, the above photo was
            > > taken of what may be
            > > Japan's next-generation fighter. The 46 foot long
            > > carbon fiber mock-up
            > > was designed and built by Mitsubishi Heavy
            > > Industries, builder of the
            > > Zero, at their Komakiminami Factory in Aichi
            > > prefecture. Freshly
            > > returned from France where it had undergone testing
            > > of its stealth
            > > technology, the sleek mock-up foreshadows what just
            > > might be the future
            > > of Japanese military
            > >
            >
            <http://inventorspot.com/articles/new_jasdf_stealth_fighter_jet_be_6254#\
            > > > aviation. (via News On Japan
            > > <http://www.newsonjapan.com/> and
            > > newsinfo.inquirer
            > >
            >
            <http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view_article.php?articl\
            > > e_id=81919> , Zero image c/o murphybytes
            > > <http://www.murphybytes.com/?m=200512> )
            > >
            > > Steve Levenstein
            > > <http://inventorspot.com/blog/steve_levenstein>
            > > Japanese Innovations Writer
            > > InventorSpot.com <http://www.inventorspot.com/>
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            > Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
            Yahoo! FareChase.
            > http://farechase.yahoo.com/
            >
          • MaX G Cunningham
            ... actually OUT PERFORM the F/A-22. In all aspects - manouverability, stealth, radar, etc. ... No argument here. NOT to mention probably 1/3rd the price ! MC
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 11, 2007
              --- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, Brett Messimer <turbo95187@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > I've got a bet - I will bet that this fighter, if it is made, will
              actually OUT PERFORM the F/A-22. In all aspects - manouverability,
              stealth, radar, etc.
              >
              > Any takers???????
              >
              > B

              No argument here.
              NOT to mention probably 1/3rd the price !
              MC
            • P38eddie@aol.com
              If it s as good as everyone thinks and that they say it is, I foresee losing JSF sales to the Japanese. ************************************** See what s new
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 12, 2007
                If it's as good as everyone thinks and that they say it is, I foresee losing JSF sales to the Japanese.




                See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
              • MaX G Cunningham
                ... ___________________ Good point Ed, However let s think that through. The market for the F-22 was severely limited to, 1) Countries being only the very
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 13, 2007
                  --- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, P38eddie@... wrote:
                  >
                  > If it's as good as everyone thinks and that they say it is, I
                  > foresee losing
                  > JSF sales to the Japanese.
                  ___________________
                  Good point Ed,

                  However let's think that through.

                  The market for the F-22 was severely limited to,

                  1) Countries being only the very closest and entirely trusted
                  allies of the USA.

                  In the current political climate, that list is dwindling.

                  2) Countries that could afford a $ 130.00 million dollar
                  each fighter aircraft in any effective quanity. That price also
                  means the USA is eating the entire amatorised R&D debt.
                  The realistic price to the US tax payer is around
                  $ 360 million each !

                  Here's my list.

                  England / Forget it, they have the Typhoon/Eurofighter.
                  Have also signed on to the F-35/JSF program.

                  The same goes for most of our closest NATO allies,
                  incl. Germany, Italy, etc, etc.

                  France / Forget it, lots of bad blood since 9-11, (thanks
                  to Washington & the idiots in the US media)
                  they produce and take pride in thier own fighters.

                  The Scandinavians, Norway, Sweeden, Denmark, Finland,
                  & Iceland. They are far more likely to afford thier
                  own Grippen.

                  Japan / As we're discussing can and may build thier own.

                  Are you going to sell them to S. Korea & Tiawan ?
                  Niether really has the bucks, and would do better
                  in collaberation with the Japanese.

                  Tiawan could very easily fall into the Mainland Chinese
                  influence, in the forseeable future.

                  Isreal / So far they arn't beating the door down for
                  F-22s, but have opted for simiarly troubled F-35/JSF.
                  If they went with the F-22, how many could we be talking
                  about ? 20, or 30 tops ?

                  Australia / Forget it, a small country (economicaly) with a
                  comparitively misiscule GDP. Could not afford
                  any effective quantities, no matter how much we kid ourselves
                  and them.

                  Canada / See also Australia / Has signed onto JSF/F-35
                  program.

                  Saudi Arabia / Under suspicion since 9-11, Bush family
                  influence and entanglments aside.
                  Just signed up to buy the Typhoon/ Eurofighter, in quantity.
                  Amidist and scandal.

                  Misl. Other Middle east ? Dubai ?
                  How many coutries does the US really have a close
                  working relationship with, and trust with it's
                  socalled state of the art, front line technology.
                  Eygpt ?
                  Jordan ?
                  Potential for Big problems there with longer term stability,
                  and the Isreali's.

                  Consider how the much touted original F-14 deal with
                  Iran, back fired.


                  Regards,
                  Maximillian.
                • Benscan@aol.com
                  Great Article Max! Thanks for posting it to the group. Question: When is this super-fighter scheduled to take to the air? Happy Landings! Ben In a message
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 14, 2007
                    Great Article Max!
                     
                    Thanks for posting it to the group.
                     
                    Question: When is this super-fighter scheduled to take to the air?
                     
                    Happy Landings!
                    Ben
                     
                     
                    In a message dated 10/10/2007 1:28:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, max_g_cunningham@... writes:

                    New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet

                    to be "Made In Japan"

                    by Steve Levenstein, August 11, 2007
                    Not your grandfather's Mitsubishi...Not your grandfather' s Mitsubishi.. .
                    The words "Mitsubishi fighter" still have the power to send a chill down the spines of American war history buffs. It was, after all, just 65 years ago that the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" ruled the skies over the Pacific by outclassing the vast majority of Allied aircraft sent to oppose it.

                    ...but gramps sure would be proud!...but gramps sure would be proud!
                    Now it seems that a descendant of the legendary Zero may soon be stretching its wings across the skies of Japan - and perhaps further afield. Alarmed by new developments in fighter aircraft technology displayed by traditional adversaries China and Russia, JASDF (Japan Air Self-Defense Forces) planners have been attempting to acquire the American F-22 Raptor fighter to replace their current F-15 Eagles. The F-22 is packed with the latest avionic and stealth technology but its high tech features have the Pentagon concerned about security leaks.

                    Stealthy, speedy and made in JapanStealthy, speedy and made in Japan
                    Even though the United States would lose out financially by not selling Japan the F-22, security issues are front & center these days and Japan is now looking to its own aircraft designers to provide a home-grown solution.

                    "Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber"Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber
                    So it was that on August 9, the above photo was taken of what may be Japan's next-generation fighter. The 46 foot long carbon fiber mock-up was designed and built by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, builder of the Zero, at their Komakiminami Factory in Aichi prefecture. Freshly returned from France where it had undergone testing of its stealth technology, the sleek mock-up foreshadows what just might be the future of Japanese military aviation. (via News On Japan and newsinfo.inquirer, Zero image c/o murphybytes )

                    Steve Levenstein
                    Japanese Innovations Writer
                    InventorSpot. com

                     




                    See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
                  • Benscan@aol.com
                    The Japanese have always been serious about their heavy industry and especially when it comes to their military. They might just have a modernized Zero in the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 14, 2007
                      The Japanese have always been serious about their heavy industry and especially when it comes to their military. They might just have a modernized Zero in the skies soon. I wonder what it's per-unit cost will be?
                       
                      Happy Landings!
                      Ben
                       
                       
                      In a message dated 10/10/2007 7:51:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jericoparazo@... writes:

                      Imagine, the Japanese Zero was made by a mediocre
                      Japanese manufacturing industry, what more if a now
                      very strong Mitsubihsi. will try to make an "F-22"
                      knock-off. Don't laugh! Some of the best and most
                      cost effective sports cars are Japanese (GT-R Skyline,
                      Toyota Supra, Honda 2000..etc). I just wish they
                      would copy the YF-23 instead. Its faster and a lot
                      more beautiful and stealthy. Maneuverability? just
                      add thrust vectoring to the design.

                      Who knows, maybe they'll reprogram Asimo to fly one!

                      --- MaX G Cunningham <max_g_cunningham@ yahoo.com>
                      wrote:

                      > New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet to be "Made In
                      > Japan"by Steve Levenstein,
                      > August 11, 2007 [Not your grandfather' s
                      > Mitsubishi.. .] Not your
                      > grandfather' s Mitsubishi.. .
                      > The words "Mitsubishi fighter" still have the power
                      > to send a chill down
                      > the spines of American war history buffs. It was,
                      > after all, just 65
                      > years ago that the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" ruled the
                      > skies over the
                      > Pacific by outclassing the vast majority of Allied
                      > aircraft sent to
                      > oppose it.
                      >
                      > [...but gramps sure would be proud!] ...but gramps
                      > sure would be proud!
                      > Now it seems that a descendant of the legendary Zero
                      > may soon be
                      > stretching its wings across the skies of Japan - and
                      > perhaps further
                      > afield. Alarmed by new developments in fighter
                      > aircraft technology
                      > displayed by traditional adversaries China and
                      > Russia, JASDF (Japan Air
                      > Self-Defense Forces) planners have been attempting
                      > to acquire the
                      > American F-22 Raptor fighter to replace their
                      > current F-15 Eagles. The
                      > F-22 is packed with the latest avionic and stealth
                      > technology but its
                      > high tech features have the Pentagon concerned about
                      > security
                      >
                      <http://inventorspot .com/articles/ new_jasdf_ stealth_fighter_ jet_be_6254# \
                      > > leaks.
                      >
                      > [Stealthy, speedy and made in Japan] Stealthy,
                      > speedy and made in Japan
                      > Even though the United States would lose out
                      > financially by not selling
                      > Japan the F-22, security issues are front & center
                      > these days and Japan
                      > is now looking to its own aircraft designers to
                      > provide a home-grown
                      > solution.
                      >
                      > ["Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber] "Son
                      > of Zero", resplendent
                      > in carbon fiber
                      > So it was that on August 9, the above photo was
                      > taken of what may be
                      > Japan's next-generation fighter. The 46 foot long
                      > carbon fiber mock-up
                      > was designed and built by Mitsubishi Heavy
                      > Industries, builder of the
                      > Zero, at their Komakiminami Factory in Aichi
                      > prefecture. Freshly
                      > returned from France where it had undergone testing
                      > of its stealth
                      > technology, the sleek mock-up foreshadows what just
                      > might be the future
                      > of Japanese military
                      >
                      <http://inventorspot .com/articles/ new_jasdf_ stealth_fighter_ jet_be_6254# \
                      > > aviation. (via News On Japan
                      > <http://www.newsonja pan.com/> and
                      > newsinfo.inquirer
                      >
                      <http://newsinfo. inquirer. net/breakingnews /world/view_ article.php? articl\
                      > e_id=81919> , Zero image c/o murphybytes
                      > <http://www.murphyby tes.com/? m=200512> )
                      >
                      > Steve Levenstein
                      > <http://inventorspot .com/blog/ steve_levenstein>
                      > Japanese Innovations Writer
                      > InventorSpot. com <http://www.inventor spot.com/>
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                      Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
                      http://farechase. yahoo.com/

                       




                      See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
                    • MaX G Cunningham
                      ... According to a news article by the Associated Press, Tokyo has begun developing an indigenous stealth jet fighter that will be deployed in 2016.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 14, 2007
                        --- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, Benscan@... wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Great Article Max!
                        >
                        > Thanks for posting it to the group.
                        >
                        > Question: When is this super-fighter scheduled to take to the air?
                        >
                        > Happy Landings!
                        > Ben


                        "According to a news article by the Associated Press, Tokyo has begun
                        developing an indigenous stealth jet fighter that will be deployed in
                        2016. Mitsubishi, the prime contractor, has already developed a
                        full-scale model, of which several pictures have been accidentally
                        leaked to the press. The model is named 'Mitsubishi ATD-X"'. A
                        laboratory of the French government has ...
                      • John McKenna
                        They probably hope that they will be cheaper than the F-2, developed from the F-16... ... From: Benscan@aol.com To:
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 14, 2007
                          They probably hope that they will be cheaper than the F-2, developed from the F-16...

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: "Benscan@..." <Benscan@...>
                          To: CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 2:50:39 PM
                          Subject: Re: [CombatAircraft] Japanese ATF Proposal

                          The Japanese have always been serious about their heavy industry and especially when it comes to their military. They might just have a modernized Zero in the skies soon. I wonder what it's per-unit cost will be?
                           
                          Happy Landings!
                          Ben
                           
                           
                          In a message dated 10/10/2007 7:51:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jericoparazo@ yahoo.com writes:

                          Imagine, the Japanese Zero was made by a mediocre
                          Japanese manufacturing industry, what more if a now
                          very strong Mitsubihsi. will try to make an "F-22"
                          knock-off. Don't laugh! Some of the best and most
                          cost effective sports cars are Japanese (GT-R Skyline,
                          Toyota Supra, Honda 2000..etc). I just wish they
                          would copy the YF-23 instead. Its faster and a lot
                          more beautiful and stealthy. Maneuverability? just
                          add thrust vectoring to the design.

                          Who knows, maybe they'll reprogram Asimo to fly one!

                          --- MaX G Cunningham <max_g_cunningham@ yahoo.com>
                          wrote:

                          > New JASDF Stealth Fighter Jet to be "Made In
                          > Japan"by Steve Levenstein,
                          > August 11, 2007 [Not your grandfather' s
                          > Mitsubishi.. .] Not your
                          > grandfather' s Mitsubishi.. .
                          > The words "Mitsubishi fighter" still have the power
                          > to send a chill down
                          > the spines of American war history buffs. It was,
                          > after all, just 65
                          > years ago that the Mitsubishi A6M "Zero" ruled the
                          > skies over the
                          > Pacific by outclassing the vast majority of Allied
                          > aircraft sent to
                          > oppose it.
                          >
                          > [...but gramps sure would be proud!] ...but gramps
                          > sure would be proud!
                          > Now it seems that a descendant of the legendary Zero
                          > may soon be
                          > stretching its wings across the skies of Japan - and
                          > perhaps further
                          > afield. Alarmed by new developments in fighter
                          > aircraft technology
                          > displayed by traditional adversaries China and
                          > Russia, JASDF (Japan Air
                          > Self-Defense Forces) planners have been attempting
                          > to acquire the
                          > American F-22 Raptor fighter to replace their
                          > current F-15 Eagles. The
                          > F-22 is packed with the latest avionic and stealth
                          > technology but its
                          > high tech features have the Pentagon concerned about
                          > security
                          >
                          <http://inventorspot .com/articles/ new_jasdf_ stealth_fighter_ jet_be_6254# \
                          > > leaks.
                          >
                          > [Stealthy, speedy and made in Japan] Stealthy,
                          > speedy and made in Japan
                          > Even though the United States would lose out
                          > financially by not selling
                          > Japan the F-22, security issues are front & center
                          > these days and Japan
                          > is now looking to its own aircraft designers to
                          > provide a home-grown
                          > solution.
                          >
                          > ["Son of Zero", resplendent in carbon fiber] "Son
                          > of Zero", resplendent
                          > in carbon fiber
                          > So it was that on August 9, the above photo was
                          > taken of what may be
                          > Japan's next-generation fighter. The 46 foot long
                          > carbon fiber mock-up
                          > was designed and built by Mitsubishi Heavy
                          > Industries, builder of the
                          > Zero, at their Komakiminami Factory in Aichi
                          > prefecture. Freshly
                          > returned from France where it had undergone testing
                          > of its stealth
                          > technology, the sleek mock-up foreshadows what just
                          > might be the future
                          > of Japanese military
                          >
                          <http://inventorspot .com/articles/ new_jasdf_ stealth_fighter_ jet_be_6254# \
                          > > aviation. (via News On Japan
                          > <http://www.newsonja pan.com/> and
                          > newsinfo.inquirer
                          >
                          <http://newsinfo. inquirer. net/breakingnews /world/view_ article.php? articl\
                          > e_id=81919> , Zero image c/o murphybytes
                          > <http://www.murphyby tes.com/? m=200512> )
                          >
                          > Steve Levenstein
                          > <http://inventorspot .com/blog/ steve_levenstein>
                          > Japanese Innovations Writer
                          > InventorSpot. com <http://www.inventor spot.com/>
                          >
                          >
                          >

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                        • MaX G Cunningham
                          ... Retorical question, deserving of analysis. I can t say what the fully developed price maybe, or even if this story bares any truth at all. It may not
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 14, 2007
                            --- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, Benscan@... wrote:
                            >
                            > in the skies soon. I wonder what it's per-unit cost will be?
                            > Happy Landings!
                            > Ben

                            Retorical question, deserving of analysis.

                            I can't say what the fully developed price maybe, or even if this
                            story bares any truth at all. It may not BTW.

                            However,

                            "They" have several factors in thier decided favour.

                            They will have seen and hopefully learned from the
                            comedic/tradgidy of the littany of mistakes
                            and cost over runs in the US F-22 program.

                            Technology has moved so far, particuarly processing
                            and memory, since the F-22, this machine will have
                            a huge technolgical, qualitative, financial, and quantitative
                            advantages.

                            Materials and techniques have moved along way since, and also
                            irroincaly, maybe because of the highly troubled F-22 & F-35 programs

                            At the sametime, the basic understand of stealth, it's limitations,
                            has also developed, wich also makes me more than a little
                            suspicious, overall. This even be a trumpted up bogus report, and
                            yet another moronic exersize to make the F-22 look better, and
                            "nessesary."

                            Assuming it's legitimate,
                            Lets cut to the chase, shall we.

                            Unlike the USA today, The Japanese do not (at least not yet) rely on
                            thier military and related manufacturing base as a principle
                            support in thier indigenous economy.

                            This means far less pressure, and reason to "pork barrel," and
                            "milk" the program as is the de-riggure in the states. See also
                            JSF/F-35 ongoing.

                            An American high tech assembly person, works for $ 20.00 an hour, or
                            so, a Chinese worker, for $ 2.00 per hour, or so.
                            However, a Japanese assembly line robot, works for $ .02 & dosn't take
                            breaks either.

                            They are better situated, for co-production, collaberation, and
                            export to some of thier closest allies and neighbors, S. Korea,
                            Singapore, maybe even the Aussies, since this machine maybe a lot
                            more affordable, and thus could be managable to aquire in WORTHWHILE
                            quantities, unlike the F-22.


                            There's more, but you get the idea,,.

                            MaX
                          • MaX G Cunningham
                            ... from the F-16... _________ As JJ reminds us. F-2 was a botched Japanese F-16 knock off. In the era that allready saw the amazing F-20, GDC marketing the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 14, 2007
                              --- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, John McKenna <mcke1orio@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > They probably hope that they will be cheaper than the F-2, developed
                              from the F-16...
                              _________
                              As JJ reminds us. F-2 was a botched Japanese F-16 knock off.
                              In the era that allready saw the amazing F-20, GDC marketing the F-16
                              to everyone, and anyone, the Isreali's working on thier own F-16
                              clone the Lavi, the Grippen, in early development,
                              the Dassualt Ralfale, and the Eurofigher also on the drawing boards.

                              Talk about re-inventing the wheel !

                              Can you say market saturation !?

                              MaX
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