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Re: General Lemay lore

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  • MGC
    Very interesting Wayne. Lemay might be the type of person one would care to meet just once, but God help you if you had to deal with him, day in, day out.
    Message 1 of 11 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Very interesting Wayne. Lemay might be the type of person one would
      care to meet just once, but God help you if you had to deal with
      him, day in, day out.

      Many amoung the group are probably familiar with the
      characterisiation of Lemay (General Hawks) in James
      Stuart's "Stratigic Air Command."

      One line from the film was probably taken from context, where
      standing beside a transport aircraft, a ground crew technican says
      to Stuart, (paraphrased from memory)

      'Dosn't the General know not to smoke, the aircraft could
      explode ?!'

      Stuart's come back, "It wouldn't dare."

      There's an interesting account of a meeting between Lemay, the the
      Late Great Kelly Johnson, in the late Ben Rich's "Skunk Works."

      Apparently the two hit it off, probably over a bottle of fine
      scotch, although Lockheed never had much luck in thier offical
      dealings.

      Johnson had an idea for a blackbird to carry an inert, (no explosive
      warhead) hardened steel projectile, weighing a couple thousands
      pounds mind you, and that if dropped
      with areodynamic guidance, from a height of 80,000 ft, could
      penetrate and obliterate hardened targets.

      We now see a orbital based variation of this concept on the books,
      for serious future consideration.

      SAC at one time had juristiction
      over the Blackbird fleet, but by some accounts, somewhat
      begrudingly, as it was expensive, and I'm sure Lemay, and his
      immediate successors considered it extravegent, of limited utility,
      and comming at a cost to other resourches.

      MC

      --- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, "wayne binkley"
      <wbinkley@h...> wrote:
      >
      > this,who do I shoot,you or the driver?"He reportedly recieved
      > a "spot
      > promotion" True? Who knows,but part of the Lemay Air Force lore.
      >
      > wayne d.binkley <wbinkley@h...>
      >
    • wayne binkley
      beehive rounds were the weapon of last resort in VN. BEEHIVE: An anti-personnel, direct-fire shell carrying several thousand small steel darts or
      Message 2 of 11 , Dec 2, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        "beehive"rounds were the weapon of last resort in VN.

        BEEHIVE: An anti-personnel, direct-fire shell carrying several thousand
        small steel darts or 'fleshettes'. Each fleshette is about one inch long and
        has the appearance of a 1" finishing nail with the nailhead stamped into the
        form of 4 fins, similar to an arrow. A typical 105mm BEEHIVE has 6000 darts,
        3000 of which are loaded pointing forward, 3000 pointing backward. The shell
        is fired directly at advancing enemy formations similar to an aimed shotgun.
        At about 50 meters from the muzzle, the round ejects the darts toward the
        enemy with a medium hard ejecting charge. The forward loaded darts spread
        into a 45 degree fan traveling forward, while the rear facing darts are
        forced by their fins to flip around in flight. As the darts flip, they loop
        away from the GT line, forming a fan of about 60 degrees. Thus 6000 darts
        fly in a 60 degree fan at about 2000 feet per second toward the enemy. The
        effect on troops in the open is devastating. Enemy troops about 100 meters
        from the firing cannon may be pierced by 10-20 darts, those closer may
        receive 100 or more penetrating stab wounds similar to those inflicted by an
        icepick.




        wayne d.binkley <wbinkley@...>




        >From: "MGC" <max_g_cunningham@...>
        >Reply-To: CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com
        >To: CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [CombatAircraft] Re: General Lemay lore
        >Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:27:59 -0000
        >
        >Very interesting Wayne. Lemay might be the type of person one would
        >care to meet just once, but God help you if you had to deal with
        >him, day in, day out.
        >
        >Many amoung the group are probably familiar with the
        >characterisiation of Lemay (General Hawks) in James
        >Stuart's "Stratigic Air Command."
        >
        >One line from the film was probably taken from context, where
        >standing beside a transport aircraft, a ground crew technican says
        >to Stuart, (paraphrased from memory)
        >
        >'Dosn't the General know not to smoke, the aircraft could
        >explode ?!'
        >
        >Stuart's come back, "It wouldn't dare."
        >
        >There's an interesting account of a meeting between Lemay, the the
        >Late Great Kelly Johnson, in the late Ben Rich's "Skunk Works."
        >
        >Apparently the two hit it off, probably over a bottle of fine
        >scotch, although Lockheed never had much luck in thier offical
        >dealings.
        >
        >Johnson had an idea for a blackbird to carry an inert, (no explosive
        >warhead) hardened steel projectile, weighing a couple thousands
        >pounds mind you, and that if dropped
        >with areodynamic guidance, from a height of 80,000 ft, could
        >penetrate and obliterate hardened targets.
        >
        >We now see a orbital based variation of this concept on the books,
        >for serious future consideration.
        >
        >SAC at one time had juristiction
        >over the Blackbird fleet, but by some accounts, somewhat
        >begrudingly, as it was expensive, and I'm sure Lemay, and his
        >immediate successors considered it extravegent, of limited utility,
        >and comming at a cost to other resourches.
        >
        >MC
        >
        >--- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, "wayne binkley"
        ><wbinkley@h...> wrote:
        > >
        > > this,who do I shoot,you or the driver?"He reportedly recieved
        > > a "spot
        > > promotion" True? Who knows,but part of the Lemay Air Force lore.
        > >
        > > wayne d.binkley <wbinkley@h...>
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • JJ McKenna
        It s spelled flechette -- but fleshette is more fitting!----- Original Message ----- From: wayne binkley To: CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com Sent: December
        Message 3 of 11 , Dec 2, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          It's spelled "flechette" -- but "fleshette" is more fitting!----- Original Message -----
          Sent: December 02, 2005 10:52
          Subject: RE: [CombatAircraft] Re: General Lemay lore

          "beehive"rounds were the weapon of last resort in VN.

          BEEHIVE: An anti-personnel, direct-fire shell carrying several thousand
          small steel darts or 'fleshettes'. Each fleshette is about one inch long and
          has the appearance of a 1" finishing nail with the nailhead stamped into the
          form of 4 fins, similar to an arrow. A typical 105mm BEEHIVE has 6000 darts,
          3000 of which are loaded pointing forward, 3000 pointing backward. The shell
          is fired directly at advancing enemy formations similar to an aimed shotgun.
          At about 50 meters from the muzzle, the round ejects the darts toward the
          enemy with a medium hard ejecting charge. The forward loaded darts spread
          into a 45 degree fan traveling forward, while the rear facing darts are
          forced by their fins to flip around in flight. As the darts flip, they loop
          away from the GT line, forming a fan of about 60 degrees. Thus 6000 darts
          fly in a 60 degree fan at about 2000 feet per second toward the enemy. The
          effect on troops in the open is devastating. Enemy troops about 100 meters
          from the firing cannon may be pierced by 10-20 darts, those closer may
          receive 100 or more penetrating stab wounds similar to those inflicted by an
          icepick.




          wayne d.binkley <wbinkley@...>




          >From: "MGC" <max_g_cunningham@...>
          >Reply-To: CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com
          >To: CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [CombatAircraft] Re: General Lemay lore
          >Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 13:27:59 -0000
          >
          >Very interesting Wayne.  Lemay might be the type of person one would
          >care to meet just once,  but God help you if you had to deal with
          >him,  day in,  day out.
          >
          >Many amoung the group are probably familiar with the
          >characterisiation of Lemay (General Hawks) in  James
          >Stuart's  "Stratigic Air Command."
          >
          >One line from the film was probably taken from context,  where
          >standing beside a transport aircraft, a ground crew technican says
          >to Stuart, (paraphrased from memory)
          >
          >'Dosn't the General know not to smoke,  the aircraft could
          >explode ?!'
          >
          >Stuart's come back,  "It wouldn't dare."
          >
          >There's an interesting account of a meeting between Lemay,  the the
          >Late Great Kelly Johnson,  in the late Ben Rich's "Skunk Works."
          >
          >Apparently the two hit it off,  probably over a bottle of fine
          >scotch,  although Lockheed never had much luck in thier offical
          >dealings.
          >
          >Johnson had an idea for a blackbird to carry an inert, (no explosive
          >warhead)  hardened steel projectile,  weighing a couple thousands
          >pounds mind you,  and that if dropped
          >with areodynamic guidance,  from a height of 80,000 ft,  could
          >penetrate and obliterate hardened targets.
          >
          >We now see a orbital based variation of this concept on the books,
          >for serious future consideration.
          >
          >SAC at one time had juristiction
          >over the Blackbird fleet,  but by some accounts,   somewhat
          >begrudingly,  as it was expensive,  and I'm sure Lemay,  and his
          >immediate successors considered it extravegent, of limited utility,
          >and comming at a cost to other resourches.
          >
          >MC
          >
          >--- In CombatAircraft@yahoogroups.com, "wayne binkley"
          ><wbinkley@h...> wrote:
          > >
          > > this,who do I shoot,you or the driver?"He reportedly recieved
          > > a "spot
          > > promotion" True? Who knows,but part of the Lemay Air Force lore.
          > >
          > > wayne d.binkley <wbinkley@h...>
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >




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