Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [CombatAircraft] Afghanistan

Expand Messages
  • ference huynen
    Hi Ben, I too make a distinction between air superiority fighters and interceptors. Both are very useful off course, I ve always admired the Tornado F3 too.
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 1, 2001
      Hi Ben,

      I too make a distinction between air superiority fighters and interceptors.
      Both are very useful off course, I've always admired the Tornado F3 too. The
      USA does have one true interceptor left, the F-14 Tomcat (my personal
      favourite as you might remember). I think that they should operate those
      Tomcats not at sea as their primary defender. The only trouble is that the
      USAF is officially tasked with air defence of CONUS and that they don't want
      competition from the USN. That would have to change.
      ADC was a great institution when it was still around. My personal opinion is
      that they shouldn't have done away with Quick Reaction Alert (QRA), having
      fighters sitting ready at air bases, fuelly armed and ready to go. In the
      past there were 2 types: +5 meaning aircraft sitting ready on the runway
      with pilots onboard and +15, meaning aircraft waiting in their shelters with
      their pilots nearby. +15 QRA would still be useful today. It is still done
      in a limited way by ANG aircraft I think, but not by all units.
      I didn't know that the F-106 (your personal favourite if I remember
      correctly) can still beat most current fighterts in a scramble. I do know
      that the F-15 would certainly out-accelerate it.

      Ference.



      _________________________________________________________________
      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
    • Benscan@aol.com
      Hi Ference, Always good to get an email from you. I hope all is well with you? I m fine. You know that before it s demise the old Aerospace Defense Command did
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 17, 2001

        Hi Ference,

        Always good to get an email from you. I hope all is well with you? I'm fine.

        You know that before it's demise the old Aerospace Defense Command did an in-depth evaluation of various aircraft which it hoped would supersede the vineral F-106A/B Delta Dart. They actually evaluated the F-14A Tomcat and the F-15A Eagle. Guess what? For interecptor duties the old F-106 outperformed these newer aircraft!!! Which is why it soldiered on up until about 1986 when the last Regular Air Force ADC units were disbanded along with ADC. Not bad for a design that's almost 50 years old and a single-engine. Did you know that the F-106 still holds the official absolute speed record for a single-engine air-breathing aircraft? True.

        The problem here is that even with the latest aircraft it's no good unless you've got dedicated people both on the ground and in the air who know and understand what Aerospace Defense is all about and that ended for us more than 15 years ago!!! The RAF didn't forget what they'd learned during the Battle of Britain. You never know when you'll need serious Air Defense which is why they have their own version of the Tornado, as you know, the F-3. It's a pure interceptor to protect the British Isles. What we need to do is make a return to the interlocking system of radar sectors, anti-aircraft battaries, and dedicated interceptor squadrons.

        Did you know that 3 fighters, 2 F-16s and 1-F-15 were launched to intercept the 2 airliners that went into the World Trade Center? They tried but they were 8 minutes behind and could do nothing! This is why we need to bring back ADC or something like it.

        ADC were masters of the quick scramble. Nobody could beat their ability to get into the air extremly fast! I know as I've watched ADC F-102s and F-106s up close when they've scrambled. I just wish I'd have had a camcorder or even an old movie camera available back then.

        At critical times ADC fighter-interceptors would do what they call "sitting hot pad alert" meaning that they would fire up engines; taxi out to a hard stand near the active runway and just sit with engines idling. When their fuel got to critical they would taxi back to the parking apron as other fithers took their place. Of course this only happened at critical times and wasn't done all the time due to costs but it was very effective.

        The next best thing to hot pad alert is the ADC Alert Barn; specially contructed hangars with angled taxiways so that the pair of interceptors when scambled could taxi out at maximum taxi speed so that when they made their turn onto the runway they were very close to takeoff speed. Those folks knew what they were doing and I think many of them might just be called back if not for actual service then to be instructors and consultants.

        Thanks again for a most enjoyable email. Stay well.

        Happy Landings!
        Ben

        In a message dated 10/1/01 3:42:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ference_huynen@... writes:


        Hi Ben,

        I too make a distinction between air superiority fighters and interceptors.
        Both are very useful off course, I've always admired the Tornado F3 too. The
        USA does have one true interceptor left, the F-14 Tomcat (my personal
        favourite as you might remember). I think that they should operate those
        Tomcats not at sea as their primary defender. The only trouble is that the
        USAF is officially tasked with air defence of CONUS and that they don't want
        competition from the USN. That would have to change.
        ADC was a great institution when it was still around. My personal opinion is
        that they shouldn't have done away with Quick Reaction Alert (QRA), having
        fighters sitting ready at air bases, fuelly armed and ready to go. In the
        past there were 2 types: +5 meaning aircraft sitting ready on the runway
        with pilots onboard and +15, meaning aircraft waiting in their shelters with
        their pilots nearby. +15 QRA would still be useful today. It is still done
        in a limited way by ANG aircraft I think, but not by all units.
        I didn't know that the F-106 (your personal favourite if I remember
        correctly) can still beat most current fighterts in a scramble. I do know
        that the F-15 would certainly out-accelerate it.

        Ference.





      • ference huynen
        Hi Ben, I think the principal reason why the Boeings couldn t be intercepted on time is because the USAF doesn t do those hot pad alerts anymore. The
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 18, 2001
          Hi Ben,

          I think the principal reason why the Boeings couldn't be intercepted on time
          is because the USAF doesn't do those hot pad alerts anymore. The performance
          of the individual aircraft that perform the intercept is still important,
          but less important than the alert status. Still, I have gained a healthy
          newfound respect for the F-106 from what I've read from you!!!!
          I've heard that the RAF is flying alerts again, they have aircraft fueled,
          armed and ready to go sitting in their shelters with the pilots nearby. And
          that they have a 24h CAP over Londen/Heathrow with tornado F-3s but also
          Harrier GR-7s. I'm not sure what the USAF is doing. I've heard a rumour that
          they're indeed back to doing alert status, ADC Alert Barn type of things??

          Best regards,

          Ference.




          _________________________________________________________________
          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
        • Benscan@aol.com
          Hi Ference, Please excuse the lengthy delay in my response. I totally agree with you but even more; the US simply dismantled it s real air defense system and
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 26, 2001
            Hi Ference,
            Please excuse the lengthy delay in my response. I totally agree with you but even more; the US simply dismantled it's real air defense system and this started back in the early 1980s as the bean-counters in the Pentagon were pushing hard for general purpos warplanes. The results was an order from the Pentagon that henseforth all fighter aircraft would have to be multi-mission; meaning that they all would have to be able to drop bombs!!! This meant the demise of the dedicated mission combat aircraft and the end of the pure interceptor. in 1981 I talked with a very disgruntled ADC (Aeroapace Defense Command) F-106A pilot who had just been re-assigned to Tyndall AFB in Florida for the advisary role with is interceptor. He said that he would be getting out of the Air Force as soon as possible. At that time the USAF lost most of the groundcrew, radar techs and aircrew who had honed Aerospace Defense Command to a fine organization. Now all we have is basically pilots schooled in the old TAC (Tactical Air Command) way of doing things and this just doesn't work when it comes to air defense for the Continental United States. Today the only F-106s flying are at Tyndall AFB and they will most likely be put out to the "bone yard" at Davis-Monthan AFB to eventually be scrapped! (sigh)  Now hopefully we will have re-learned what--as you pointed out--our British friends have never forgotten; you need dedicated Fighter-Interceptors and the people with the right mentality for the job. This is why they British have their own dedicated version of the Tornado which only they use and it in turn is used only for interception. Well.. We learned the hard way from Pearl Harbor and now we've learned the hard way again from the Pentagon/WTC massacre.

            You're definitely right that "hot-pad alert" might just have made the difference and now that's what happening along with constant CAPs (Combat Air Patrols) being flown over Washington, DC and other selected areas. BUT fighter pilots are not interceptor pilots and there's a BIG difference.

            Thanks for your most interesting and to the pointe observations. Thank all of you for making this one of the best email groups on the Internet!

            Happy Flying!
            Ben

            In a message dated 10/18/01 2:13:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ference_huynen@... writes:


            Hi Ben,

            I think the principal reason why the Boeings couldn't be intercepted on time
            is because the USAF doesn't do those hot pad alerts anymore. The performance
            of the individual aircraft that perform the intercept is still important,
            but less important than the alert status. Still, I have gained a healthy
            newfound respect for the F-106 from what I've read from you!!!!
            I've heard that the RAF is flying alerts again, they have aircraft fueled,
            armed and ready to go sitting in their shelters with the pilots nearby. And
            that they have a 24h CAP over Londen/Heathrow with tornado F-3s but also
            Harrier GR-7s. I'm not sure what the USAF is doing. I've heard a rumour that
            they're indeed back to doing alert status, ADC Alert Barn type of things??

            Best regards,

            Ference.






          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.