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Re: [Churchcrawling] Powys, Denbighshire, and, er... Shropshire

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  • marion
    Thank you for clearing up the puzzling issue of apparently Welsh churches being in the diocese of Lichfield, Andy. :p I did wonder about that. I missed the
    Message 1 of 4 , May 1, 2008
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      Thank you for clearing up the puzzling issue of apparently Welsh
      churches being in the diocese of Lichfield, Andy. :p I did wonder
      about that.

      I missed the reredos in Oswestry you mention: I didn't stay in the
      church for long; it seemed dark, cavernous (smelling of slightly
      'off' lilies) and not particularly interesting. And I'd only really
      gone into the town to buy OS maps. Sad to see a splendid Victorian
      public building apparently being demolished...

      Llanyblodwel was astonishing. As I approached - with high hopes that
      it would be unlocked, as a church roof fund was being advertised at
      the end of the lane, I thought I was going into yet another dullish
      Vicktorian place (but with a wonderfully mad tower) and so I was
      blown away by what I saw when I opened that extraordinarily tall door
      (is it really 18th century?). I think it's the first highly
      coloured, decorated church I've come across which seemed evangelical
      despite the decoration: what do you think? Some of the exhortations
      would've gone down very well with Mr Obadiah Slope, I suspect; and I
      can imagine him building one of his Sabbath schools close by. And I'd
      not heard of 'The Society for the Enlargement of Churches and Chapels
      the whole of them being hereby declared unappropriated etc. etc.'
      before, as evidenced by the gallery in the north aisle...

      Llansilin was a joy and only just along the road from the hotel; that
      is a double-naved building, isn't it? I'm not quite clear how you
      distinguish double naves from large, fat aisles - but the book on
      Denbighshire churches I was given led me to believe that they are a
      special Denbighshire church feature (though Llansilin was in Powys -
      I hope), as are 'canopies of honour'.

      There were some puzzling pieces of timber in Selattyn which I needed
      help to identify: just stacked in a transept. I couldn't make out
      what they'd been part of.

      Thanks for the informative comments.

      Marion

      On 30 Apr 2008, at 23:40, Andy Foster wrote:

      > That was a nice tour Marion. I did smile slightly because quite a
      > few of those churches you have as Powys are in 'Welsh' Shropshire:
      > Oswestry, Llanyblodwel, Selattyn. Yes, they look like Wales and
      > quite a few people speak Welsh. Oswestry is the only English town
      > with its Welsh name on the OS map: Croesoswallt. St. Oswald at
      > Oswestry is mostly by G. E. Street, 1860s, between a mediaeval
      > tower and seventeeth century chancel and chapels. Did you see the
      > wonderful late C17 reredos with Moses and Aaron, in the north
      > chancel chapel when I was last there? Llanyblodwel is a hoot of
      > course. When I looked at your pic of Selattyn my first thought was
      > 'Those red tiles haven't toned down much yet' and one or two of us
      > on Lichfield DAC feel we weren't given all the facts before we
      > approved them. But they should get a lot better. The arcades by the
      > way are not a mediaeval double nave job but 1892 by C. Hodgson
      > Fowler. They're sweetly done and you're not the first person to
      > make that mistake by a long way. Before then it just had an
      > unaisled nave and transepts. There are some very nice eighteenth
      > century chancel fittings: altar rails, panelling, pulpit.
      > Rhydycroesau is one of those funny places where the village is in
      > Wales but the church is Church of England - Lichfield's only one
      > 'over the border'. I wish we also had Llansilin. 'It is a place of
      > extreme beauty' said the late Ted Hubbard in the Clwyd Pevsner, and
      > he was right.
      >
      > Andy F
    • Andy Foster
      Marion I m horrified to hear of a splendid Victorian public building being demolished. Do you which one? Oswestry District Council are reasonable on
      Message 2 of 4 , May 1, 2008
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        Marion

        I'm horrified to hear of a splendid Victorian public building being demolished. Do you which one? Oswestry District Council are reasonable on conservation so I'm surprised. Glad you liked Llanyblodwel. There have been a lot of quiet repairs in the last few years, the faculty amount ran into six figures. It's not really evangelical (though it will be a bit at the moment with the priest from Trefonen up the road covering it). Carter was doing things before the Tractarians and the Ecclesiologists got going locally. I think the society is an early name for the ICBS, but am not sure. Free seats, of course, was a Tractarian, not an evangelical, thing.

        I'm not sure about what constitutes a double nave except that the two vessels are of equal width. There are a lot in Denbighshire (and Llansilin should be in Denbighshire, it's John Redwood's mad boundary changes of c.1996 which put into Powys). But there are others right across N Wales: Aberdaron and Llanarmon in the Lleyn Peninsula, for example. There are also canopies of honour (ceilures) across Wales. A lovely one with Tudor roses at the closed church of Talyllyn in Meirionnydd (by the lake, above the Talyllyn Railway), which concerns me greatly as it may go for secular use. The bits of timber in Selattyn are usually thought to be parts of the former rood screen. The original bits of the one at Pennant M were in a west gallery until the 1990s alterations - which I find horrible.

        So you had an encounter with the B4391 from Llangynog to Bala! When I was six or seven, c.1959, my Dad got a route from the RAC to avoid the A5 to north-west Wales, and I still use it every year to go to Lleyn. Mum used to make sure she sat right hand side going and left hand coming back to be next to the rock wall rather than the 500 foot sheer drop. Best bit of scary motoring left in Wales I think. For anyone who doesn't know it, the drop is sheer and there is no barrier, only a very small low bank with reflectors on posts.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: marion
        To: Churchcrawling@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 8:06 AM
        Subject: Re: [Churchcrawling] Powys, Denbighshire, and, er... Shropshire


        Thank you for clearing up the puzzling issue of apparently Welsh
        churches being in the diocese of Lichfield, Andy. :p I did wonder
        about that.

        I missed the reredos in Oswestry you mention: I didn't stay in the
        church for long; it seemed dark, cavernous (smelling of slightly
        'off' lilies) and not particularly interesting. And I'd only really
        gone into the town to buy OS maps. Sad to see a splendid Victorian
        public building apparently being demolished...

        Llanyblodwel was astonishing. As I approached - with high hopes that
        it would be unlocked, as a church roof fund was being advertised at
        the end of the lane, I thought I was going into yet another dullish
        Vicktorian place (but with a wonderfully mad tower) and so I was
        blown away by what I saw when I opened that extraordinarily tall door
        (is it really 18th century?). I think it's the first highly
        coloured, decorated church I've come across which seemed evangelical
        despite the decoration: what do you think? Some of the exhortations
        would've gone down very well with Mr Obadiah Slope, I suspect; and I
        can imagine him building one of his Sabbath schools close by. And I'd
        not heard of 'The Society for the Enlargement of Churches and Chapels
        the whole of them being hereby declared unappropriated etc. etc.'
        before, as evidenced by the gallery in the north aisle...

        Llansilin was a joy and only just along the road from the hotel; that
        is a double-naved building, isn't it? I'm not quite clear how you
        distinguish double naves from large, fat aisles - but the book on
        Denbighshire churches I was given led me to believe that they are a
        special Denbighshire church feature (though Llansilin was in Powys -
        I hope), as are 'canopies of honour'.

        There were some puzzling pieces of timber in Selattyn which I needed
        help to identify: just stacked in a transept. I couldn't make out
        what they'd been part of.

        Thanks for the informative comments.

        Marion

        On 30 Apr 2008, at 23:40, Andy Foster wrote:

        > That was a nice tour Marion. I did smile slightly because quite a
        > few of those churches you have as Powys are in 'Welsh' Shropshire:
        > Oswestry, Llanyblodwel, Selattyn. Yes, they look like Wales and
        > quite a few people speak Welsh. Oswestry is the only English town
        > with its Welsh name on the OS map: Croesoswallt. St. Oswald at
        > Oswestry is mostly by G. E. Street, 1860s, between a mediaeval
        > tower and seventeeth century chancel and chapels. Did you see the
        > wonderful late C17 reredos with Moses and Aaron, in the north
        > chancel chapel when I was last there? Llanyblodwel is a hoot of
        > course. When I looked at your pic of Selattyn my first thought was
        > 'Those red tiles haven't toned down much yet' and one or two of us
        > on Lichfield DAC feel we weren't given all the facts before we
        > approved them. But they should get a lot better. The arcades by the
        > way are not a mediaeval double nave job but 1892 by C. Hodgson
        > Fowler. They're sweetly done and you're not the first person to
        > make that mistake by a long way. Before then it just had an
        > unaisled nave and transepts. There are some very nice eighteenth
        > century chancel fittings: altar rails, panelling, pulpit.
        > Rhydycroesau is one of those funny places where the village is in
        > Wales but the church is Church of England - Lichfield's only one
        > 'over the border'. I wish we also had Llansilin. 'It is a place of
        > extreme beauty' said the late Ted Hubbard in the Clwyd Pevsner, and
        > he was right.
        >
        > Andy F





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • marion
        ... I ll send a photo to churchpics, Andy (giving myself permission to break the rules). I think it was called Victoria Rooms... but could be wrong. ... Ah,
        Message 3 of 4 , May 1, 2008
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          On 1 May 2008, at 09:55, Andy Foster wrote:

          >
          > I'm horrified to hear of a splendid Victorian public building being
          > demolished. Do you which one?

          I'll send a photo to churchpics, Andy (giving myself permission to
          break the rules). I think it was called Victoria Rooms... but could
          be wrong.


          > Oswestry District Council are reasonable on conservation so I'm
          > surprised. Glad you liked Llanyblodwel. There have been a lot of
          > quiet repairs in the last few years, the faculty amount ran into
          > six figures. It's not really evangelical (though it will be a bit
          > at the moment with the priest from Trefonen up the road covering
          > it). Carter was doing things before the Tractarians and the
          > Ecclesiologists got going locally. I think the society is an early
          > name for the ICBS, but am not sure. Free seats, of course, was a
          > Tractarian, not an evangelical, thing.

          Ah, interesting; thank you. I've evidently made quite wrong
          assumptions about texts on walls, thinking them 'low church'.

          >
          > I'm not sure about what constitutes a double nave except that the
          > two vessels are of equal width. There are a lot in Denbighshire
          > (and Llansilin should be in Denbighshire, it's John Redwood's mad
          > boundary changes of c.1996 which put into Powys). But there are
          > others right across N Wales: Aberdaron and Llanarmon in the Lleyn
          > Peninsula, for example. There are also canopies of honour
          > (ceilures) across Wales. A lovely one with Tudor roses at the
          > closed church of Talyllyn in Meirionnydd (by the lake, above the
          > Talyllyn Railway), which concerns me greatly as it may go for
          > secular use. The bits of timber in Selattyn are usually thought to
          > be parts of the former rood screen. The original bits of the one at
          > Pennant M were in a west gallery until the 1990s alterations -
          > which I find horrible.

          I found Pennant lacking in atmosphere, which surprised me, given its
          superb position; it was too shiny and new somehow - particularly the
          apse. The shrine itself reminded me of St Alban's - perhaps this is a
          commonly occurring shape for shrines? I haven't seen many.

          >
          > So you had an encounter with the B4391 from Llangynog to Bala!
          > When I was six or seven, c.1959, my Dad got a route from the RAC to
          > avoid the A5 to north-west Wales, and I still use it every year to
          > go to Lleyn. Mum used to make sure she sat right hand side going
          > and left hand coming back to be next to the rock wall rather than
          > the 500 foot sheer drop. Best bit of scary motoring left in Wales I
          > think. For anyone who doesn't know it, the drop is sheer and there
          > is no barrier, only a very small low bank with reflectors on posts.

          I'm relieved to discover that I'm not the only wimp who finds this
          road horrific; I had to go back the long way - through Llangollen -
          rather than face going 'home' that way again. :p

          Marion
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