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[Churchcrawling] small Lamb church

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  • marion
    Holy Trinity, Prestwood, Bucks I drive past this church everyday and never give it a second glance. I knew that the architect was Edward Buckton Lamb, but that
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
      Holy Trinity, Prestwood, Bucks

      I drive past this church everyday and never give it a second glance. I knew
      that the architect was Edward Buckton Lamb, but that didn't mean anything
      until very recently.

      Now I've seen photos of some of his extraordinary churches and wonder if he
      had an off day when he designed this one.

      It seems from reading the very full church history, that his original
      designs were not only rubbished by The Ecclesiologist, which accused him of
      aiming purely for the picturesque and for putting a chancel at each end;( it
      still has these and one is used as the baptistry) but that the church, which
      was too small from its inception, has been altered to make it more usable.
      Some of the alterations have spoiled his original 'multum in parvo' scheme -
      his roofs have been plastered over, originally they were simply 3.5 inch
      battens resting on the principals and stained to form a whole with the
      scissor beams which now form the principal roof decoration. The trefoils
      were cut into the arch braces by carpenter and landlord of the local pub -
      The Polecat (tolerable meals) in 1884.

      The East window was considered too low (it was identical to the one seen in
      the westend baptistry). The original chancel roof was 'richly carved'. But
      in 1884 the roof was was raised, and is now bog-standard barrel vault; and
      so was the window, by five feet and a reredos, a glass mosaic by Salviati
      filled in the original lower part of the mullions. The symbols are the lily
      for the Madonna, the Iris for St Joseph, The trinity etc...At various times
      this colourful object has been loved or hated, when the latter, is has been
      covered.

      There is a nice stained glass window by Nuttgens - the local glass makers
      from Piggotts Hill (about 2 miles from Prestwood) where Eric Gill lived from
      1928-1940. I tried to photo an Annunciation for Jo but it is rather bleached
      out. The Nuttgens window looks fine in the photo but has scanned badly..oh
      well!

      The seating is very impractical, no-one in the aisles can see what is going
      on in the chancel and there is no question of moving a communion table
      forward, the church is only 75 feet long and there is no room. The choir has
      given up the unequal struggle of fitting around the very tall vicar and
      sings from the baptistry.

      It is a much-loved church, beautifully maintained and always open thanks to
      the present incumbent.

      Lamb has also been condemned by Pevsner for his alterations for Disraeli at
      Hughenden Manor - don't know what the fuss is about, his 'gothicked'
      building makes a very dramatic statement as it looks out from its hill
      through the beech trees towards the town.

      I had hoped to find examples of Lamb's really whacky roofs on the net - but
      no luck. Simon has a much nicer example of his work at St Margaret's
      Leiston on his website and there is
      http://www.kingscroft.co.uk/stjude/index.htm which is very colourful but
      again doesn't show his exuberant roofs.

      Photos and some original architect's drawings to churchpics.

      marion
    • Win and Les Center
      Re: St. Jude: I think that tower roof is pretty exuberant. Is that the kind of thing you are referring to?: All those forms are pretty arbitrary looking. Is
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
        Re: St. Jude: I think that tower roof is pretty exuberant. Is that the kind of thing you are referring to?: All those forms are pretty arbitrary looking. Is he considered "Victorian?" Ya gotta remember, Victorian is practically all we have over here, since most of the "Westward Movement" was during that period. Of, course, there is the 100 years since, but it has been mostly occupied by war, and there is no consistent development in church architecture. Anyway, my reasoning may be errant, but still, most "Old" churches here are Victorian. so we usually consider it the standard. Look at that over-decorated Trinity in Boston, often call the best church in the country. In those terms, Lamb, judging by St.Jude, fits right in. The first picture, entitled, "Nave" is beautiful---to me. INHO.---Les

        I had hoped to find examples of Lamb's really whacky roofs on the net - but
        no luck. Simon has a much nicer example of his work at St Margaret's
        Leiston on his website and there is
        http://www.kingscroft.co.uk/stjude/index.htm which is very colourful but
        again doesn't show his exuberant roofs.

        Photos and some original architect's drawings to churchpics.

        marion




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      • marion
        Les, I m only just beginning to learn about Victorian church architects; but yes, E.B. Lamb is Victorian, he died in 1869. He was called a rogue I think
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
          Les,

          I'm only just beginning to learn about Victorian church architects; but yes,
          E.B. Lamb is Victorian, he died in 1869. He was called a 'rogue' I think
          because he didn't conform to the rules about church architecture that the
          Cambridge group set up, and their journal was The Ecclesiologist.

          I just used to ignore all Victorian churches for lots of different reasons,
          so discovering that they can be really exciting, rather than just eccentric,
          is another new thing for me.

          The photos of my particular Lamb church are not exciting but I hope that
          having some of his drawings with the photos might make it OK. I now have to
          hunt for other newly discovered men such as Butterfield, Burges and Street
          who built churches in my county. I'm being very parochial and sticking
          within the borders for now. The trouble is that all their best examples are
          not in my county!

          I agree that St Jude's looks wonderful. But the one I really wanted to
          highlight is St Mary Magdelene, Addiscombe - it has a website but no shots
          of the interior. I think that the roof interior possibly bears some slight
          resemblance to what Lamb tried to do at Prestwood, most of which was
          altered. Jeremy recommended a book called 'Muscular Churches' and I got
          that about a week ago, the illustrations are out of this world.

          I haven't started to look at many of our 20th century churches yet. I
          thought I'd cover all the denominations in my home town first and some of
          those are newish but none are exciting like the new ones you show. I think
          that the congregations are too small to afford anything other than a shed.
          Church attendance over here is pretty low - about 12% of the population of
          60 million.

          marion

          > Re: St. Jude: I think that tower roof is pretty exuberant. Is that the kind of
          > thing you are referring to?: All those forms are pretty arbitrary looking.
          > Is he considered "Victorian?"
        • Doctor Digi
          ... reasons, I still do. Most are a) the same and b) boring (see (a) ). ... Street ... Butterfield and Street are rather yawnable. Try looking for some Teulon
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
            --- In Churchcrawling@y..., marion <marion.hall@b...> wrote:

            > I just used to ignore all Victorian churches for lots of different
            reasons,

            I still do. Most are a) the same and b) boring (see (a) ).


            >I now have to
            > hunt for other newly discovered men such as Butterfield, Burges and
            Street
            > who built churches in my county.

            Butterfield and Street are rather yawnable. Try looking for some
            Teulon - now, while he was AWFUL at restoration (being far too heavy
            handed) who did some rather interesting work from scratch.

            The best and most interesting bit of rogue church architecture I know
            of is at Lower Shuckburgh, Warwickshire. The interior has walls that
            look like brick but aren't really brick (even the Master was puzzled
            as to what material it is). The outside is eccentric but not OTT.

            >The trouble is that all their best examples are
            > not in my county!

            Isn't that why they call it Boring Buckinghamshire? Not that I think
            that myself - I think there are more interesting bits in Bucks than
            in, say, Bedfordshire.

            doctor digi
          • marion
            bdd, ... Who says so....? ? :-) Come outside and say that!!!! Trouble is, that the places I want to see are submerged in the The Inferno - aka Milton
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
              bdd,

              > Isn't that why they call it Boring Buckinghamshire? Not that I think
              > that myself - I think there are more interesting bits in Bucks than
              > in, say, Bedfordshire.

              Who says so....? ? :-) Come outside and say that!!!!

              Trouble is, that the places I want to see are submerged in the The Inferno -
              aka Milton Keynes from which once entered, no person emerges sane, if at
              all....

              My pics were posted at 9 a.m. and seem to have got lost in the post, not
              that they were anything to write home about

              I needed your august presence in Bierton the other day - you have seen the
              outside of the church enroute to Hulcote (and, yes, that is collapsing -
              estimated costs of refurbishment- 1 million) and the inside of Bierton (St
              James)is most puzzling. Your beloved master hasn't a useful word to say
              about the place. It looks as though the floor has been dropped about two
              feet in the nave..why would anyone do such a thing AND put the med. tiles
              back? Is this what the old boy calls 'reseating'

              The rest of the list (except Les and Jo) must be watching f*****ball.

              I like OTT BTW

              nbb (non-boring bucks)
            • Win and Les Center
              Marion---Please don t listen to him. He s the voice of the Devil, trying to lead you astray. Do what interests you, not him. I d be very interested to see
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
                Marion---Please don't listen to him. He's the voice of the Devil, trying to lead you astray. Do what interests you, not him. I'd be very interested to see more Butterfield. All I've seen is St Margaret's London, which is in all the guide books.---les
                I still do. Most are a) the same and b) boring (see (a) ).


                >I now have to
                > hunt for other newly discovered men such as Butterfield, Burges and
                Street
                > who built churches in my county.

                Butterfield and Street are rather yawnable. Try looking for some
                Teulon - now, while he was AWFUL at restoration (being far too heavy
                handed) who did some rather interesting work from scratch.

                >The trouble is that all their best examples are
                > not in my county!

                Isn't that why they call it Boring Buckinghamshire? Not that I think
                that myself - I think there are more interesting bits in Bucks than
                in, say, Bedfordshire.

                doctor digi




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              • Doctor Digi
                ... By him I suppose you mean me. ... How dare you. I m not just the voice... I am His Satanic Majesty! Well spotted - was wondering when I d be found out...
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
                  --- In Churchcrawling@y..., "Win and Les Center" <wcenter@p...> wrote:

                  > Marion---Please don't listen to him.

                  By "him" I suppose you mean me.

                  >He's the voice of the Devil, trying to lead you astray.

                  How dare you. I'm not just the voice... I am His Satanic Majesty!
                  Well spotted - was wondering when I'd be found out...

                  =>:-)

                  > Do what interests you, not him. I'd be very interested to see
                  more Butterfield. All I've seen is St Margaret's London, which is in
                  all the guide books.---les

                  Boring Butterfield. Boring boring boring boring boring boring boring
                  boring old Butterfield!

                  Did I mention - he's boring!

                  We want more rogue Victorian architects!


                  doctor digi
                • Win and Les Center
                  OOps, it s All Saint s, Margaret st, isn t it? We went to church at All Souls , Langham place in the morning, and All Saint s, Margaret Street in the evening,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 1, 2001
                    OOps, it's All Saint's, Margaret st, isn't it? We went to church at All Souls', Langham place in the morning, and All Saint's, Margaret Street in the evening, and it's hard to keep something that happened 19 years ago straight in my mind. Both were unforgettable experiences. But the details get hazier with the years.---Les
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Win and Les Center
                    To: Churchcrawling@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:11 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Churchcrawling] Re: small Lamb church


                    Marion---Please don't listen to him. He's the voice of the Devil, trying to lead you astray. Do what interests you, not him. I'd be very interested to see more Butterfield. All I've seen is St Margaret's London, which is in all the guide books.---les
                    I still do. Most are a) the same and b) boring (see (a) ).


                    >I now have to
                    > hunt for other newly discovered men such as Butterfield, Burges and
                    Street
                    > who built churches in my county.

                    Butterfield and Street are rather yawnable. Try looking for some
                    Teulon - now, while he was AWFUL at restoration (being far too heavy
                    handed) who did some rather interesting work from scratch.

                    >The trouble is that all their best examples are
                    > not in my county!

                    Isn't that why they call it Boring Buckinghamshire? Not that I think
                    that myself - I think there are more interesting bits in Bucks than
                    in, say, Bedfordshire.

                    doctor digi




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                  • marion
                    Les, I ve found the pictures of All Saints...I must make the effort to go and look at it. I d be glad of suggestions of other High Victorian churches in London
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 2, 2001
                      Les,

                      I've found the pictures of All Saints...I must make the effort to go and
                      look at it. I'd be glad of suggestions of other High Victorian churches in
                      London that aren't too far apart.

                      As for the doc...what can one say? *Incorrigible* comes to mind, amongst
                      other things. I'm not influenced one bit....I'm 'the cat that walked by
                      itself' and everywhere isn't alike to me.

                      > OOps, it's All Saint's, Margaret st, isn't it? We went to church at All
                      > Souls', Langham place in the morning, and All Saint's, Margaret Street in the
                      > evening, and it's hard to keep something that happened 19 years ago straight
                      > in my mind. Both were unforgettable experiences.

                      marion
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