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Re: questions from brother steve

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  • Prophet Leader
    Steve, You asked about requirements to join The Church of the Firstborn Westwood. Since the Church is a continuation of the Church of the Firstborn founded at
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 27, 2009
      Steve,

      You asked about requirements to join The Church of the Firstborn
      Westwood. Since the Church is a continuation of the Church of
      the Firstborn founded at Kirtland in 1836, anyone with a valid
      2nd anointing [or a valid J.C. Bennet style patriarchal anointing]
      is already an unofficial member.


      The standards of worthiness for membership and/or receipt of additional ordinances
      are acknowledgment of the presiding Keyholder, obedience to the
      various laws covenanted in the 1st Endowment. The person must
      be magnifying his calling and seeking deeper and deeper into
      the mysteries of God.

      If the person has received the Kingly grades of Priesthood he has further obligations
      including the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood.

      Assuming he has a valid baptism, if a person wishes to join the Church as an official member
      he need only send an email with a biography requesting his name
      be entered as an official member. If feasible we will make
      personal contact and interview the prospective member.

      This church does not have a creed one has to adhere to. As
      the prophet Joseph said:


      I [do] not like the old man being called up for erring in doctrine. It looks too much like the Methodists, and not like the Latter-day Saints. Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of thinking and believing as I please. It feels so good not to be trammelled. It does not prove that a man is not a good man because he errs in doctrine.17 "History of Joseph Smith" Latter-day saints Millennial Star XX (1858)

      774; DHC 5:340.

      Notwithstanding this all male members over 30 are asked to express
      their willingness to enter into plural marriage on their own
      responsibility should the Lord reveal this path for them. The
      Church itself does not sponsor plural marriage leaving that
      mission to the Priesthood underground.

      Willingness or obedience to Plural marriage (the law of abraham) is required to get back to our progenitor in the Priesthood Abraham, obedience to the law of consecration is required to get back to Enoch. It is required to be sealed to these and other dispensation
      heads by the ordinance of adoption through one of Joseph's lines
      as Alvin R. Dyer explains sealing is involvement in laws as well
      as blood line sealing.

      "You will notice that when Moroni appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith, he
      said that the priesthood of Elijah would be revealed which would turn the
      hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers. Now
      if you want to take the time to analyze that prophecy in Malachi, it is
      precisely the very thing we are talking about. We will become associated
      with the teachings of all the fathers from the beginning. Now how does that
      apply? Well, for example, take the law of consecration. That is what
      father (Enoch) would teach us. In other words we would become bound to the
      Patriarch Enoch through the involvement of the law of consecration. Take
      for further example the keys given to Abraham, which have to do with
      receiving the gospel and having the leaven of the the house of Israel spread
      unto other people, and particularly unto the gentiles. ...The keys of
      salvation which Adam holds, for example, require us to understand and be
      obedient [the law of obedience and sacrifice] in order to be sealed to Adam.
      Sealing means involvement, or living by or making a covenant concerning the
      laws or the principles which he taught or was called upon to give unto his
      children. So when you say that the children will be turned to the fathers
      and the fathers to the children, you see, it is more than just a direct
      blood-line descent. It means all of the fathers in the Priesthood and
      involvement with the various keys and powers of the Patriarchal order as I
      understand it."

      [Of course one of the neglected laws of the Patriarchal order is the
      dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham or plural marriage as I (RL)
      understand it!]

      In Brigham Young's 2nd Anointing blessing:

      "I seal upon you all the blessings of thy Progenitors Even Abraham, Isaac, &
      Jacob & even as Far back as the Priesthood [goes]."


      Oct 1840 J.S. the prophet(wjs p. 39):

      [Adam]the great and grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he
      is Michael because he was the first and father of all, _not only by
      progeny_, but he was the first to hold the spiritual blessings."

      "Adam holds the keys of the dispensation of the fulness of times...Paul
      speaks of the Church coming to an innumerable company of Angels, to God the
      Judge of all, the spirits of Just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of
      the New Covenant, &c. Heb XII"

      It is necessary that we be taught by these characters. Sealing then as I
      understand it means communication an opening of the heavens either by open
      vision or spiritual communication in which these characters speak to our
      spirit independent of its connection with the mortal body. Brigham Young
      says [in the JD] that when our bodies are asleep our minds are as active as
      when we are awake. Our spirits can leave our bodies to visit distant
      friends [or to be taught by Angels and former heads of dispensations].

      Hope this helps (see the earlier message for the answers to your
      other questions).

      Dr. Randall Larsen







      --- In Church_of_the_Firstborn_Westwood@yahoogroups.com, "sseipel133" <sseipel133@...> wrote:
      >
      > Questions for Randall:
      >
      > Does your church have sacrament meetings? If so, how often?
      >
      > Do you teach that these 40 dramatic presentations are necessary for our progression, or just nice extras?
      >
      > How did you learn them?
      >
      > Are the seven kingly grades of priesthood you refer to conferred all at once or on different occasions?
      >
      > Other people who claim to be the birthright heir of Joseph Smith claim it on the basis of ordination by the previous birthright heir. You claim to have discovered your right to the position by searching your genealogy. How is your situation different from others who simply "take this honor upon himself" like Terrill Dalton or Jim Harmston?
      >
      > Can you tell us who ordained you to your priesthood position?
      >
      > Why is tithing only 2%?
      >
      > If a person's garments should have a six-pointed star after he receives his second anointing, does that mean that regular garments should have a five-pointed star?
      >
      > Do you teach that we should pray only to our heavenly father, or to both him and our heavenly mother?
      >
      > What is your opinion about Tom Green's Lebaronite priesthood lineage, or the Lebaron family's church of the firstborn claims in general?
      >
      > Where are you planning to build temples, other than California and Utah? How about Missouri?
      >
      > Have you figured out the design(architecture) of the temples yet?
      >
      > When doing work for the dead, will initiatories and endowments be done separately, like in the LDS temples?
      >
      > After we do baptisms and endowments for our ancestors, can we then have them sealed to us as our children?
      >
      > When one wants to join your church, how does he do it? Rebaptism? What requirements and process do you have? Will there be a waiting period before receiving the endowment and sealings?
      >
    • Steven Seipel
      It does help. It will take me a little while to really read through it all. Thank you. ... De: Prophet Leader Asunto:
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 2 5:45 PM
        It does help. It will take me a little while to really read through it all. Thank you.

        --- El dom, 27/9/09, Prophet Leader <rlars100@...> escribió:

        De: Prophet Leader <rlars100@...>
        Asunto: [Church_of_the_Firstborn_Westwood] Re: questions from brother steve
        Para: Church_of_the_Firstborn_Westwood@yahoogroups.com
        Fecha: domingo, 27 septiembre, 2009 8:40

         

        --- In Church_of_the_ Firstborn_ Westwood@ yahoogroups. com, "sseipel133" <sseipel133@ ...> wrote

        Questions for Randall:

        Does your church have sacrament meetings? If so, how often?

        Yes. They are sparsely attended because
        many of our members are not local.

        Do you teach that these 40 dramatic presentations are necessary for our progression, or just nice extras?

        The spirit of Elijah is sufficient to make
        one's calling and election sure. These additional ordinances
        are given in the spirit of Messiah. They teach the
        character attributes of the Savior beyond obedience
        (the 1st endowment).

        D&C 4 was a revelation of Priesthood to the Patriarch to the church.   D&C 4 is a memorandum of the pattern of the ordinances that take one up through the terrestrial kingdom.  Note the lunar motif in D&C 4 there are 15 attributes just as there are 15 days between the new moon and the full moon).    Also not the lunar motif in the sickel that is thrust in.   Magnifying your calling is to make larger the disk of the moon  (to get more light).   To have a full milk pan as Joseph used to say.  This of course puts a visual context to the term fulness of the Priesthood.
         
        Joseph was aware and probably told Taylor that there would be a panorama ordinance in the last days that would rehearse the history of this world or company of spirits from the beginning to the winding up scene.    Each dispensation would have part of the whole law given until in the final dispensation all dispensations all laws would be gathered into one.
         
        D&C 4 is a memorandum of part of this panorama ordinance. .   BY understood this when he said, 
        "Herein is the fulness of perfection [in temple ordinances].  It was couched in the character of our savior, although but a scanty portion of it was made manifest to the people, in consequence of their not being able to receive it.   All they were prepared to receive he gave them.   All that we are prepared to receive the Lord gives us…" [Brigham Young Priesthood Manual p. 22].
         
        In the Forty day literature we learn that after his resurrection Jesus taught his apostles and the seventy for 40 days and 40 nights.  I speculate that each day the Savior taught a different principle of his character.    Faith would have been taught by the Story of Adam and Eve, Hope would have been taught by the story of Abraham and Sarah,  and Charity would have been taught by the story of Isaac and Rebecca. 
         
        Orson Pratt and Brigham Young encapsulated the 40 attributes of the character of the Savior into the architecture of the Salt Lake temple.    Leading up to the Celestial Room it was intended for there to be
        15 steps.   This is a lunar motif--the 15 attributes represented are the ones named in D&C 4 faith, hope, charity &c.
         
        Once in the celestial room, it is another Eight steps up into the special room (or Holie of Holies).
        Two steps outside the sliding doors and another six steps up the narrow staircase (a solar motif). 
         
        On the dome of the Special room are 17 eight pointed stars.   A pythygorean right triangle of length 15 and height 8 will have a hypotenuse of length 17.  The sides 15+8+17 add up to the 40 character attributes or endowments of our Savior.     Thus the 1st endowment portrays Faith by telling the story of Adam and Eve. 
        The 2nd endowment portrays hope by telling the story of Abraham and Sarah.   The  3rd Endowment Charity, the story of Isaac… & c.  [the balance of the characters and attributes are left as an exercise for you to figure out]
          There is a sealing room at the end of the celestial room on a
        higher level than the Holie of Holies.  This sealing room was
        originally intended for the adoptions which would place a person in
        his station in the Patriarchal order.    It is important to have a
        sealing line to the Prophet Joseph since it is through the Prophet
        Joseph that we are sealed to our progenitors in other dispensations.
        Each dispensation and each character is the endowment has a unique law or laws that are associated with that character.    It we are to be sealed to all the dispensation heads back to Adam we have to obey and be involved in the laws that were taught by that dispensation or era head.    As Alvin R. Dyer says 
        sealing is involvement involvement with certain laws.    Abraham missionary work (also Plural Marriage),  Enoch (the law of consecration) ,  &c. 
           
        So far the majority of temple worthy saints have only been trusted with the 1st endowment.  Brigham Young's efforts to bring the school of the prophets up to the level where they could partake of these higher Ordinances pertaining to the order of Enoch failed (see various addresses in Journal of Discourses). 
        John Taylor felt that the Panorama ordinance which was to rehearse the various dispensations from Adam to Jesus to the Prophet Joseph to the winding up scene would not be given generally until the last days.
         
        Note also that the Holie of Holies in the Salt Lake temple was meant to represent the Union of the terrestrial (lunar) and the celestial (solar) in a Solar eclipse.    The small platform at the top of the narrow staircase going into the holy of holies represents the moon.  The Holie of Holies represents the earth and the Celestial Room the Sun.     It is a solar eclipse such as the one that occured at the Saviors crucificion.   The six steps up into  the holie of holies represent the six stages of a solar eclipse 1st contact, partial occlusion, totality, partial occlusion,  last contact. 
         
        See Michael Schneiders, trade book A Beginners guide to Constructing  the Universe The Mathematical Archetypes of Nature, Art, and Science, for the Geometric details on how the holie of holies squares the circle (see page 214).   The square represents the earth and the circle heaven.   The Holie of Holies binds the square and the circle,  it is the point of contact between heaven and earth.   
         

        How did you learn them?

        By revelation. The keywords are given in D&C 4 and in Nauvoo
        Revelation Book. Sometimes the biblical character associated
        with a particular character attribute is obvious sometimes not.

        For example Faith Adam, Hope Abraham, Charity (Isaac), Love
        (Jacob)....the rest are left as an exercise for the reader...

        Excerpts from John Taylor Mediation and Atonement, Chap 15 (pp. 122-23).
        "The remarks of President Joseph Smith are very plain and explicit, and are
        a strong confirmation of the passage he himself refers to, pertaining to
        the times of the restitution of all things; which will embrace all systems,
        doctrines, ordinance, dispensations, and Priesthoods connected with the
        Church and Kingdom of God. That there will be a full manifestation of all
        these things, relating to the various times and dispensations, is assured;
        yet, as Joseph Smith has very properly said, the details of those rituals
        and observances cannot now be fully defined. But as ancient Israel
        preserved in the Ark of the Covenant memorials of God's power, goodness and
        mercy, manifested during the exodus from Egypt, in the two tables of stone
        and the pot of manna; and of the recognition of the Aaronic Priesthood in
        Aaron's rod that budded; and as the sword of numerous other yet to be made
        manifest, and a Urim and Thummim were preserved on this continent; so will
        there be an exhibition an evidence, a memorial, and an actual manifestation
        of matters pertaining to laws, ordinances, ceremonies and dispensations,
        from the commencement of the world to the present time, preserved and
        manifested in the dispensation that the Lord in His loving kindness has now
        inaugurated. This will be in accordance with the eternal plans and
        purposes of belonging to the Priesthoods of God in the different ages,
        pertaining to the organization of this world, the proposed mediation and
        atonement of the Son of God, the manifestations and developments of the
        Melchizedek Priesthood, and the Prophet Joseph has referred to, as well
        relating to sacrifices in early days as in other matters. The introduction
        of the Aaronic Priesthood, together with the Ark and the Tabernacle, which
        we are told were made after the patterns shown unto Moses in the
        mount—patterns which existed in the heavens; the eternal existence,
        authority and power of both Priesthoods as connected with God and
        administering in time and eternity; the attempts of Satan to overthrow the
        dynasty, power and authority of Jehovah and his complete failure and
        discomfiture; exhibiting in a panorama all leading, prominent details of
        the creation, atonement, redemption, salvation and exaltation of the world
        and man, the organization of a new heaven and a new earth, and all the
        purposed of God, His plans and ordinances, manifested through the
        Priesthood from the first inception of the organization of the world to the
        final consummation, purification and exaltation of the world and its
        inhabitants, according to the foreknowledge and determinate counsel of the
        Almighty."

        Are the seven kingly grades of priesthood you refer to conferred all at once or on different occasions?

        Can be one grip at a time or up to the key of Enoch ommiting
        the oath and covenant of the Priesthood given with the Key
        of Omega. For those who magnify their calling and who are
        fully worthy (2nd Anointing, adoption to one of Joseph's lines,
        magnifying their calling) these ordinances are given at once.
        You can read a bit about the grips of the kingly grades
        in the files section. I am also willing to send a more complete
        file to those who the Lord reveals are sincerely seeking the
        truth.

        Steve: Other people who claim to be the birthright heir of Joseph Smith claim it on the basis of ordination by the previous birthright heir. You claim to have discovered your right to the position by searching your genealogy. How is your situation different from others who simply "take this honor upon himself" like Terrill Dalton or Jim Harmston?"

        The Father appointed me head of the Church or the Firstborn.
        I preside by virtue of birthright and ordination. The ordinations
        are 2nd anointing (ability to fill any vacancy that may occur)and
        a third anointing by the Father himself.

        .

        Can you tell us who ordained you to your priesthood position?

        The Father himself. I received an LDS 2nd anointing from
        Bro. Niblett a sealer in the Atlanta Temple. I received a
        fundy 2nd from Robert Black.

        Why is tithing only 2%?

        To allow LDS to pay tithing to support the temple. I am
        seeking more revelation on this point. At the moment its
        just a policy.

        > If a person's garments should have a six-pointed star after he receives his second anointing, does that mean that regular garments should have a five-pointed star?

        No. The compass and the square are the proper insignia for the
        1st endowment.
        Do you teach that we should pray only to our heavenly father, or to both him and our heavenly mother?

        Following Jesus and Orson Pratt only Heavenly Father. The holy
        presence of Heavenly Father obtained by a prayer circle with
        the Kingly signs of the priesthood brings you into the presence
        of the Father, Mother, and Son--the highest manifestation of
        God available to mortals.

        What is your opinion about Tom Green's Lebaronite priesthood lineage, or the Lebaron family's church of the firstborn claims in general?


        Ross went off the deep end. He was a fallen prophet when he
        came up with this ego gratifying idea. It results from a misreading
        of the D&C and one of Joseph's discourses. The D&C says that the
        restoration shall be administered to members at Nauvoo NOT thathere will be another restoration by Elijah at Nauvoo. Joseph received
        all of the keys and there is no dispensation between his and the
        the dispensation of the Last times (millenium) presided over
        by Jesus.

        Where are you planning to build temples, other than California and Utah? How about Missouri?

        All of the above. Its a big load to take on.

        Have you figured out the design(architecture ) of the temples yet?

        Initially one large lecture hall (terrestrial/ room)a veil adjoining a a sealing room and holy of Holies complex on the pattern of the Salt
        Lake temple. Also a room for adoptions 17 steps up from the
        room after the veil.

        Exterior similar to the Washington D.C. temple if pledges come in as
        planned.

        > When doing work for the dead, will initiatories and endowments be done separately, like in the LDS temples?

        No. For teaching purposes the initiatory is an integral part of the endowment. Though it is permissible to split the ordinances.

        After we do baptisms and endowments for our ancestors, can we then have them sealed to us as our children?

        Yes. WW is the one who deviated from this order of sealing.

        When one wants to join your church, how does he do it? Rebaptism? What requirements and process do you have? Will there be a waiting period before receiving the endowment and sealings?

        Rebaptism allowed but not required if a valid LDS or Fundamentalist
        baptism exists. No waiting period for the worthy including
        second anointings. Waiting period for Kingly grades and 39 additional
        endowments 1 year.

        Hope this helps,

        Dr. Randall Larsen


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