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Re: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil

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  • Cristina Caudill
    We must pray to be delivered from evil....or you probably won t be. Ask and you shall receive but God answers the prayers of the righteous. A wicked man
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 16, 2013
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      We must pray to be delivered from evil....or you probably won't be.  Ask and you shall receive but God answers the prayers of the righteous.  A wicked man flees yet no one is chasing them...(perhaps their own evil or guilty conscious is chasing them...aka paranoia). However....the evil one is always trying to blind the minds of humans....and toying with them wth his lies and deceit is another tactic our enemies use to turn us from love of our family and friends and especially God.  In the last days times will be hard to deal with. Evil knows they have only a short time so is roaring like a lion to nab all the victims it can.  The armour the Lord is what we need...the breastplate of righteousness...the sword..etc.  this is a war between good and evil....armeggedon is the final battle.  The more informed you are to what we are dealing with the better.  Different Christians play different roles in the gifts of the spirit in the body of Christ...May God bless and keep us!  Amen.

      On Aug 16, 2013 10:31 PM, "Bill Cunningham" <billcun@...> wrote:
       

      Is the Urantia Book in agreement with me and most mystery schools that
      we are our own worst problems. Sure there maybe "evil spirits" out there but
      they basically cause bad dreams because we watch a scary movie or something.
      Or think negatively. I believe the Lord is the Lord and takes care of all.

      Bill

    • Brother Dave
      Dear Members, ... we are our own worst problems. Sure there maybe evil spirits out there but  they basically cause bad dreams because we watch a scary movie
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 16, 2013
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        Dear Members,

        Bill Cunningham wrote:

        > Is the Urantia Book in agreement with me and most mystery schools that 
        we are our own worst problems. Sure there maybe "evil spirits" out there but 
        they basically cause bad dreams because we watch a scary movie or something. 
        Or think negatively. I believe the Lord is the Lord and takes care of all.

        > Bill
        Hi Bill,

        Yes, I agree, and The Bible and the Urantia Book also agree.  See John 12;31-32 which is very important -- the exact words of Jesus, and full true. Also John 16:11 and many others.

        This is on my website


        This Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth  The Urantia Book is free of copyright, you may share it.

        [my added comments are in these square brackets and are copyright as well as this study I put some words in all caps or bold or large fonts for emphasis]

        Study 26 JESUS CHRIST stopped all
        demonic influences here, A.D. 30 - on !

        Compiled 2/29/2012 by Dave@... Copyright 2012

        Page-602 The dragon eventually became the symbolic representation of all these evil personages. Upon the triumph of [Jesus Christ] Michael, [in A.D. 30 and forevermore,] "Gabriel came down from Salvington [the spiritual central headquarters of our universe that our Creator Son of God Jesus Christ Michael made, and His usual Residence] and bound the dragon (all the rebel leaders) for an age." Of the Jerusem seraphic rebels it is written: "And the angels who kept not their first estate but left their own habitation, he has reserved in sure chains of darkness to the judgment of the great day." [note carefully the spelling difference of Jerusem and Jerusalem. The higher Heaven named Jerusem is NOT the physical city presently named Jerusalem on earth; there is no relationship.]

        Page-602 No one ever suggested rebellion to Lucifer. The idea of SELF-ASSERTION in OPPOSITION to the WILL OF MICHAEL and to the PLANS of THE UNIVERSAL FATHER, as they are represented IN MICHAEL, had its origin in his own mind.

        Page-603 2. The universe government of the Creator Son -- MICHAEL. Lucifer [defaulted about 200,000 years ago and] contended that the local systems should be autonomous. He protested against the right of Michael, the Creator Son, to assume SOVEREIGNTY of Nebadon [our local universe, having many higher Heavens and ten million evolving human inhabited planets in this first long age, is made by our True God-Man Spirit Person Jesus Christ Michael] in the name of a hypothetical [atheism !!] PARADISE FATHER and require all personalities to acknowledge allegiance to this unseen Father. He asserted that the whole plan of worship was a clever scheme to aggrandize the Paradise Sons. He was willing to acknowledge Michael as his Creator-father but NOT as HIS GOD and RIGHTFUL RULER.

        Pages 610-611 Caligastia was recognized by the Son of Man [our Jesus Christ] as the technical Prince of Earth up to near the time of his death. Said Jesus: "NOW is the judgment of this world; NOW shall the prince of this world be cast down." [John 12: 31] And then still nearer the completion of his lifework he announced, "The prince of this world IS JUDGED." [John 16:11] And it is this same dethroned and discredited Prince who was once termed "God of Earth."

        The last act of Michael before leaving Earth was to offer mercy to Caligastia and [his assistent] Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Earth to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely NO power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

        Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Earth, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost [May 18, A.D. 30] this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are SERVILE [slavishly submissive] before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters [God's spirit will within you; the future perfect You as a Son of God !] and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon ALL FLESH. [See and believe John ch 16 VERY IMPORTANT ! HE THE SPIRIT OF ALL TRUTH IS JESUS HERE AS GOD IN SPIRIT !!! HE HAS ALL POWER OF GOD ! ]

        But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: "He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not."

        In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ. [A.D. 30 -on. "The devil(s) made me do it ! I am innocent !" -- is a childish, unspiritual cop-out from taking responsibility for all thoughts and actions of your own good, indifferent or perverse will !]

        9. PRESENT STATUS OF THE REBELLION

        Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, [A.D. 30 - on] forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, [Adam and Eve type biological uplifters] accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians [humans on this planet of now 619 worlds in our system] and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus' resurrection nineteen hundred years ago. These beings have since been transferred to the Father's world of Jerusem, where they must be held, technically until the Uversa [Orvonton Superuniverse Headquarters, ruling one trillion human inhabited planets] courts hand down a decision in the matter of Gabriel vs. Lucifer. But no one doubts that, when the annihilation verdict is issued, these repentant and salvaged personalities will be exempted from the decree of extinction. These probationary souls now labor with the Panoptians in the work of caring for the Father's world.

        The archdeceiver [Lucifer] has NEVER been on Earth SINCE the days when he sought to turn back Michael from the purpose to complete the bestowal and to establish himself finally and securely as the unqualified ruler of Nebadon. Upon Michael's becoming the settled HEAD [GOD] of the universe of Nebadon, Lucifer was taken into custody by the agents of the Uversa Ancients of Days and has since been a prisoner on satellite number one of the Father's group of the transition spheres of Jerusem. [HQ of our local system] And here the rulers of other worlds and systems behold the end of the unfaithful System Sovereign. Paul knew of the status of these rebellious leaders following Michael's bestowal, for he wrote of Caligastia's chiefs as "spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

        Michael, upon assuming the supreme Sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan WAS allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.
        Satan could come to Earth because you had no Son of standing in residence -- neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Earth, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, [A.D.1935 here] when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel's plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now UNQUALIFIEDLY detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

        Since Michael's final bestowal no one in the system has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And NO more beings have been won to the deceiver's cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.

        We [various spiritual Agents of God] do not look for a removal of the present system restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits [for interplanetary communications] will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive. [But, since Jesus Christ Incarnated here and won full Deity Sovereignty of his universe, we are fully connected to the full Presence of God and the Paradise Trinity Government of all Reality ! Thank You Jesus and thank You for God's Spirit now living within all moral humans ! Luke 17:21]

        The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. [Thank You Jesus Christ Michael ! "IT IS FINISHED."] We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. "And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more." And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors "become as though they had not been." All await the Uversa decree.
        But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in your system have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, [having 10,000 systems, and each having 1000 human inhabited worlds when completed; this universe is still evolving.] eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth "that the way of the transgressor is hard"; "that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction"; that "the wages of sin is death." [read this again: Death of the sin; not necessarily of the sinner. In Psalm 1:5 "...the way of the ungodly shall perish." ( and that sinner will learn to sin no more, or choose in God's loving judgment to cease to exist ! Choose eternal life and perfection attainment !]

        Page-846 There has been NO "fall of man." The history of the human race is one of PROGRESSIVE EVOLUTION, and the Adamic bestowal [of 38,000 years ago, the sudden evolutionary leap to "modern man"] left the world peoples greatly improved over their previous biologic condition.

        Page-863 Even prior to Pentecost NO rebel spirit could dominate a NORMAL human mind, and since that day [A.D. 30-on] EVEN the weak minds of inferior mortals are FREE from such possibilities. The supposed casting out of devils since the arrival of the Spirit of Truth has been a matter of confounding a belief in demoniacal possession with hysteria, insanity, and feeble-mindedness. But just because MICHAEL's BESTOWAL has FOREVER LIBERATED ALL HUMAN MINDS ON EARTH from the possibility of demoniacal possession, DO NOT imagine that such was NOT a reality in former ages. [!! Read this again !!]

        Page-864 The ENTIRE group of rebel midwayers is at present held prisoner by order of the Most Highs of Edentia. [the HQ of our Constellation of 100 systems] NO MORE do they roam this world on mischief bent. Regardless of the presence of the Thought Adjusters, the pouring out of THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH upon ALL FLESH forever made it impossible for disloyal spirits of any sort or description ever again to invade even [A.D. 30-on] the most feeble of human minds. Since the day of Pentecost there NEVER AGAIN can be such a thing as demoniacal possession."

        Page-952 [Disease and dangerous animal and insect creatures have always been with man on earth !] All human disease and natural death was at first believed to be due to spirit influence. Even at the present time some civilized races regard disease as having been produced by "the enemy" and depend upon religious ceremonies to effect healing. Later and more complex systems of theology still ascribe death to the action of the spirit world, all of which has led to such [false] doctrines as original sin and the fall of man.

        Page-962 [Long before 200,000 years ago, primitive evolving mankind on earth developed the false belief of dual spirits (or ghosts) that were thought to be either GOOD or EVIL.] The tragedy of all this lies in the fact that, when these ideas were taking root in the primitive mind of man, there really were NO bad or disharmonious spirits in all the world. Such an unfortunate situation did not develop until after the Caligastic rebellion [200,000 years ago] and only persisted until Pentecost. [May 18, A.D. 30 when Jesus ascended back to the Paradise Universal Father-Infinite I AM and They both Conjointly sent He the Spirit of All Truth flooding down upon all humans to prevent any bad spirit influences on any human ! See John chapter 16 and peruse that carefully. ] The concept of good and evil as cosmic co-ordinates is, even in the twentieth century, very much alive in human philosophy; most of the world's religions still carry this cultural birthmark of the long-gone days of the emerging ghost cults. [The highest "devil" -- iniquitous spirit person -- here was Lucifer; and he was only a lower level administrative Son of God, many levels under our Highest Son of God Jesus Christ Michael Who is now fully God here to all in his large universe !]

        Page-1591 Jesus explained to his apostles on several occasions the nature, and something concerning the origin, of these evil spirits, in that day often also called unclean spirits. The Master well knew the difference between the possession of evil spirits and insanity, but the apostles did not. Neither was it possible, in view of their limited knowledge of the early history of Earth, for Jesus to undertake to make this matter fully understandable. But he many times said to them, alluding to these evil spirits: "They shall NO MORE molest men when I shall have ascended to my Father in heaven, and after I shall have poured out my Spirit upon all flesh in those times when the Kingdom [Sovereignty of God] will come in great power and spiritual glory." [A.D. 30-on: the Kingdom-Family-Reality-Sovereignty of our GODMAN JESUS ALWAYS HERE IN SPIRIT WITH US ! Amen !]

        Page-1631 [Jesus healed a young man with epilepsy.] This young man was not possessed of an unclean spirit or demon; he was a victim of ordinary epilepsy. But he had been taught that his affliction was due to possession by an evil spirit. He believed this teaching and behaved accordingly in all that he thought or said concerning his ailment. The people all believed that such phenomena were directly caused by the presence of unclean spirits. Accordingly they believed that Jesus had cast a demon out of this man. But Jesus did not at that time cure his epilepsy. Not until later on that day, after sundown, was this man really healed. Long after the day of Pentecost [A.D. 30] the Apostle John, who was the last to write of Jesus' doings, avoided all reference to these so-called acts of "casting out devils," and this he did in view of the fact that such cases of demon possession NEVER occurred after Pentecost. [Read this paragraph again !]

        Page-1660 [Jesus:] "Do not make the mistake of confusing evil with the evil one, more correctly the iniquitous one. He whom you call the evil one [the devil] is the son of self-love, the high administrator who knowingly went into deliberate rebellion against the rule of my Father and his loyal Sons. But I have already VANQUISHED [overcome in battle, defeated] these sinful rebels."

        Page-1660 [Jesus:] "The Greeks and others have [falsely] taught you that man is DESCENDING from godly perfection steadily down toward oblivion or destruction; I have come to show that man, by entrance into the Kingdom, is ASCENDING certainly and surely up to God and divine perfection. Any being who in any manner falls short of the divine and spiritual ideals of the eternal Father's will is potentially evil, but such beings are in no sense sinful, much less iniquitous.

        Page-1713D-1714A 4. LAST WORDS IN THE SYNAGOGUE

        In the midst of the discussions of this after meeting, one of the Pharisees from Jerusalem brought to Jesus a distraught youth who was possessed of an unruly and rebellious spirit. Leading this demented lad up to Jesus, he said: "What can you do for such affliction as this? Can you cast out devils?" And when the Master looked upon the youth, he was moved with compassion and, beckoning for the lad to come to him, took him by the hand and said: "You know who I am; come out of him; and I charge one of your loyal fellows to see that you do not return." And immediately the lad was normal and in his right mind. And this is the first case where Jesus really cast an "evil spirit" out of a human being. All of the previous cases were only supposed possession of the devil; but this was a GENUINE case of demoniac possession, even such as sometimes occurred in those days and right UP TO the day of Pentecost, [A.D. 30] when the Master's SPIRIT was poured out upon ALL flesh, making it FOREVER IMPOSSIBLE for these few celestial REBELS to take such advantage of certain UNSTABLE types of human beings.

        Page-1971 [This is before the Bestowal of the Spirit of Truth of Jesus:] "Though Jesus knew that the plan for his death had its origin in the councils of the rulers of the Jews, he was also aware that all such nefarious [extremely wicked men wanted Jesus' death of their own free will] schemes had the FULL APPROVAL of Lucifer, Satan, and Caligastia. And he well knew that these rebels of the realms would also be PLEASED to see all of the apostles destroyed with him.

        Page-1807 When the seventy [disciples of Jesus] related how "even the devils were subject" to them, they referred to the wonderful cures they had wrought in the cases of victims of nervous disorders. Nevertheless, there had been a few cases of real spirit possession [all before Pentecost, A.D. 30] relieved by these ministers, and referring to these, Jesus said: "It is not strange that these disobedient minor spirits should be subject to you, seeing that I beheld Satan falling as lightning from heaven. But rejoice not so much over this, for I declare to you that, as soon as I return to my Father, [May 18, A.D. 30] WE will send forth our Spirits into the very minds of men so that NO MORE can these few lost spirits enter the minds of unfortunate mortals. I rejoice with you that you have power with men, but be not lifted up because of this experience but the rather rejoice that your names are written on the rolls of heaven, and that you are thus to go forward in an endless career of spiritual conquest."
         
        Peace and progress in Spirit and in Father-Son Truth,

        Brother Dave

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        From: Bill Cunningham <billcun@...>
        To: christian-philosophy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 8:05 PM
        Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil

         
        Is the Urantia Book in agreement with me and most mystery schools that
        we are our own worst problems. Sure there maybe "evil spirits" out there but
        they basically cause bad dreams because we watch a scary movie or something.
        Or think negatively. I believe the Lord is the Lord and takes care of all.

        Bill



      • Cristina Caudill
        I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course God. God...being perfect...only has lesser
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 16, 2013
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          I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course God.  God...being perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel... blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work.  Even the apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus stopped him.   Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point.  Man...not close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans.  Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for them.  They rejected him and hated him.  As the world does to many Christians. 

          On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:
        • AJ R
          The problem with evil is that Adam and Eve were innocent as babies until they gained knowledge to know good and evil. At that point, the separation/death
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 17, 2013
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            The problem with evil is that Adam and Eve were innocent as babies until they gained knowledge to know good and evil.

            At that point, the separation/death between God and man transpires because Adam and Eve became as gods. Lower case g.

            Our ability, after we've gained knowledge of what is good and what is not, we become as gods of our own desires.

            And that is the problem of evil, resident potential in all of us.

            Blessings, AJ

            --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@...> wrote:
            >
            > I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior
            > creatures to the angels and of course God. God...being perfect...only has
            > lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the
            > start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to
            > work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react
            > etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel... blinds the minds
            > and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body
            > and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't
            > touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps
            > a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work. Even the
            > apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus
            > stopped him. Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's
            > favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point. Man...not
            > close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for
            > loving humans. Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for
            > them. They rejected him and hated him. As the world does to many
            > Christians.
            > On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:
            >
          • RalphM
            The devil told them they would become as God....they weren t gods but only humans...they got lied to....don t fall for the lies of the devil.
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 18, 2013
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              The devil told them they would become as God....they weren't gods but only humans...they got lied to....don't fall for the lies of the devil.



              --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, "AJ R" <look3467@...> wrote:
              >
              > The problem with evil is that Adam and Eve were innocent as babies until they gained knowledge to know good and evil.
              >
              > At that point, the separation/death between God and man transpires because Adam and Eve became as gods. Lower case g.
              >
              > Our ability, after we've gained knowledge of what is good and what is not, we become as gods of our own desires.
              >
              > And that is the problem of evil, resident potential in all of us.
              >
              > Blessings, AJ
              >
              > --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior
              > > creatures to the angels and of course God. God...being perfect...only has
              > > lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the
              > > start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to
              > > work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react
              > > etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel... blinds the minds
              > > and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body
              > > and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't
              > > touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps
              > > a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work. Even the
              > > apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus
              > > stopped him. Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's
              > > favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point. Man...not
              > > close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for
              > > loving humans. Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for
              > > them. They rejected him and hated him. As the world does to many
              > > Christians.
              > > On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@> wrote:
              > >
              >
            • Bill Cunningham
              It was bound to happen and if not in God s plan. It will all be made to the good. God has that way of working around things.
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 18, 2013
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                It was bound to happen and if not in God's plan. It will all be made to the
                good. God has that way of working around things.

                RalphM wrote:
                > The devil told them they would become as God....they weren't gods but
                > only humans...they got lied to....don't fall for the lies of the
                > devil.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, "AJ R" <look3467@...>
                > wrote:
                >>
                >> The problem with evil is that Adam and Eve were innocent as babies
                >> until they gained knowledge to know good and evil.
                >>
                >> At that point, the separation/death between God and man transpires
                >> because Adam and Eve became as gods. Lower case g.
                >>
                >> Our ability, after we've gained knowledge of what is good and what
                >> is not, we become as gods of our own desires.
                >>
                >> And that is the problem of evil, resident potential in all of us.
                >>
                >> Blessings, AJ
                >>
                >> --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, Cristina Caudill
                >> <ctinacaudill1978@> wrote:
                >>>
                >>> I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made
                >>> inferior creatures to the angels and of course God. God...being
                >>> perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the
                >>> math is against us from the start..the Bible tells us what to do to
                >>> be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk
                >>> think act react etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex
                >>> angel... blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your
                >>> weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in
                >>> faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you
                >>> may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint
                >>> undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work. Even the
                >>> apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians
                >>> until Jesus stopped him. Job was harrassed and tested...and only
                >>> Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his
                >>> weakest point. Man...not close enough to God....slayed the
                >>> innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans. Self
                >>> destruction if you think about it...he came here for them. They
                >>> rejected him and hated him. As the world does to many Christians.
                >>> On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@> wrote:
              • Abelino Ramirez
                I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior ... We are saying the same thing being that intelligence made them as gods, lesser
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 18, 2013
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                  "I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior
                  > creatures to the angels and of course God".
                   
                  We are saying the same thing being that intelligence made them as gods, lesser gods.
                  That is consistent with the jest of the story.
                   
                  The expulsion from the Garden is the same as death.
                   
                  From that is what Jesus came to restore as the tree of life.
                   
                  Not any of our works merit our own salvation, only Jesus' works do.
                   
                  Being good, has nothing to do with it.
                   
                  Evil potential will always be present in all of us being subjected to vanity without our will.
                   
                  As lesser gods, we are subject to failure because of it.
                   
                  But at the same time, victorious in Jesus.
                   
                  Blessings, AJ
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                   
                    


                  On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 11:33 PM, AJ R <look3467@...> wrote:
                   

                  The problem with evil is that Adam and Eve were innocent as babies until they gained knowledge to know good and evil.

                  At that point, the separation/death between God and man transpires because Adam and Eve became as gods. Lower case g.

                  Our ability, after we've gained knowledge of what is good and what is not, we become as gods of our own desires.

                  And that is the problem of evil, resident potential in all of us.

                  Blessings, AJ

                  --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior
                  > creatures to the angels and of course God. God...being perfect...only has
                  > lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the
                  > start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to
                  > work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react
                  > etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel... blinds the minds
                  > and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body
                  > and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't
                  > touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps
                  > a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work. Even the
                  > apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus
                  > stopped him. Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's
                  > favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point. Man...not
                  > close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for
                  > loving humans. Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for
                  > them. They rejected him and hated him. As the world does to many
                  > Christians.
                  > On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:
                  >


                • Peter Silverstone
                  EVIL………….SATAN………………………MAN In order to deal with the promblem of evil, we must know how it appeared on earth, and who brought it. The
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 18, 2013
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                    EVIL………….SATAN………………………MAN
                    In order to deal with the promblem of evil, we must know how it appeared on earth, and who brought it. The first question  that we have to ask ourselves is this, since Evil existed before Adam knew it, who brought it before God? For God claimed, that after Adam ate of the tree, he became like “us” meaning, that in Gods court, someone else had brought evil in the presence of God.  Who was this “us” who knew good, and who were the others who knew evil? Since it was the Serpent who tricked Adam, he must be the one who knew evil.  We read;  The serpent was the most subtle of all the wild beasts that Yahweh God,  had made. It asked the Woman, “ Did God really say you were not to eat from any of the trees in the garden?” The woman answered the serpent, ‘We may eat the fruit of the trees, in the garden, But of the fruit in the middle of the garden, God said, “You must not eat it, nor touch it, under the pain of death.’ The serpent said to the woman, ‘No! You will not die! God knows in fact, that on the day you eat it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing good and evil’ Genesis 3:1-6So, who was this serpent? Was he a real snake or a representation of something else? Lets see if we can figure out. In the book of revelation, we read; “And now, war broke out in heaven, when Michael with his angels attacked the dragon. The dragon fought back, with his angels, but they were defeated, and driven out of heaven. The great dragon, the primeval serpent known as the devil or Satan, who had deceived the world was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.”  Revelation 12:7-12
                     Who is this Devil or Satan? Jesus calls the Pharisees vipers; “You serpents, brood of vipers, how can you escape being condemned to hell? This is why, -look- I am sending you prophets, and wise men and scribes, some you will slaughter and crucify, some you will scourge in your synagogues and hunt from town to town; and so, you will draw down on yourselves the blood of every upright person that has been shed on earth from the blood of Abel he holy, to the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. In truth I tell, you, it will recoil on this generation. “ Mathew 23:30-35
                    Jesus calls Peter “Satan” and Judas, “A Devil”  So, all we need, is to connect!  Lets go back to Genesis. When God calls for making of Man, who was this Man? ‘Let us make Man, in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild beasts, and all the reptiles that crawl upon the earth’ God created man, in the image of himself, and in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them. God blessed them, saying, ‘be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and conquer it. Be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of the heaven, and all living animals on earth’ “Genesis 1:26-29. The Answer is given in the Book of Zechariah!  We read; “The word of Yahweh about Israel. It is I, Yahweh, who speaks, who spread the heaven, and founded the earth, and formed the Spirit of Man, within him.” Zechariah 12:1-2  Therefore the Great Dragon, was a Spirit! Satan, aka, the Devil, is the Human Spirit. He is the One, who knew evil, and was the one in Gods court, who expressed evil. Book of Job says it. “One the day, when the sons of God came to attend on Yahweh and among them was Satan”   Job:1:6-20 A Human Being is Satanic, because He is Satan. That why he requires a Redeemer, who is  Jesus The Christ! The Christ, is Hell!!  See this; “In the Sixth year, on the fifth day of the sixth month, I was sitting at home and the elders of Judah were sitting with me, when the hand of Lord Yahweh fell upon me. I looked, and saw something that looked like a man. Downwards from what seemed like the loins, he was fire, and upwards, from his loins, he seemed to shine like polished bronze. He stretched out what seemed to be a hand, and took me by the hair, and the Spirit lifted me into the air and in visions from God, took me to Jerusalem” Ezekiel 8: 1-4 " I turned around, to see who had spoken to me, and when I turned, I saw seven golden lamp stands, and surrounded by them, a figure like the Son of Man, dressed in a long robe, tied at the waist with a golden girdle. His head and his hair were white as white wool, or as snow, his eyes like burning flame, his feet like burnished bronze, when it had been refined in furnace, and his voice, like the sound of the ocean" Revelation 1:12-16. WATCH YOURSELVES!!


                    From: Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@...>
                    To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 7:19 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil

                     
                    I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course God.  God...being perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel... blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work.  Even the apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus stopped him.   Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point.  Man...not close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans.  Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for them.  They rejected him and hated him.  As the world does to many Christians. 
                    On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:


                  • RalphM
                    Evil appeared on earth when adam and eve ate from the tree of good and evil....eve first then adam. God created evil...why, because there has to be freewill a
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 19, 2013
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                      Evil appeared on earth when adam and eve ate from the tree of good and evil....eve first then adam. God created evil...why, because there has to be freewill a choice has to made...and evil gives you that choice. The serpent did not trick adam..he tricked eve, then eve talked adam into eating also...eve was deceived by the serpent adam was not.



                      --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, Peter Silverstone <ongeasana@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > EVIL………….SATAN………………………MAN
                      > In order to deal with the promblem of evil, we must know how it appeared on earth, and who brought it. The first
                      > question  that we have to ask ourselves is this, since Evil existed before
                      > Adam knew it, who brought it before God? For God claimed, that after Adam ate
                      > of the tree, he became like “us” meaning, that in Gods court, someone else had
                      > brought evil in the presence of God.  Who was this “us” who knew good, and
                      > who were the others who knew evil? Since it was the Serpent who tricked Adam,
                      > he must be the one who knew evil.  We read;  “ The serpent
                      > was the most subtle of all the wild beasts that Yahweh God,  had
                      > made. It asked the Woman, “ Did God really say you were not to eat from any of
                      > the trees in the garden?” The woman answered the serpent, ‘We may eat the fruit
                      > of the trees, in the garden, But of the fruit in the middle of the garden, God
                      > said, “You must not eat it, nor touch it, under the pain of death.’ The serpent
                      > said to the woman, ‘No! You will not die! God knows in fact, that on the day
                      > you eat it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like gods, knowing good
                      > and evil’ Genesis 3:1-6So, who was this serpent? Was he a real snake or a
                      > representation of something else? Lets see if we can figure out. In the book of
                      > revelation, we read; “And now, war broke out in heaven, when Michael with his
                      > angels attacked the dragon. The dragon fought back, with his angels, but they
                      > were defeated, and driven out of heaven. The great dragon, the
                      > primeval serpent known as the devil or Satan, who had deceived the world was
                      > hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with
                      > him.”  Revelation 12:7-12
                      >  Who is this Devil or Satan? Jesus
                      > calls the Pharisees vipers; “You serpents, brood of vipers, how can
                      > you escape being condemned to hell? This is why, -look- I am
                      > sending you prophets, and wise men and scribes, some you will slaughter and
                      > crucify, some you will scourge in your synagogues and hunt from town to town;
                      > and so, you will draw down on yourselves the blood of every upright person that
                      > has been shed on earth from the blood of Abel he holy, to the blood of
                      > Zachariah son of Barachiah whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the
                      > altar. In truth I tell, you, it will recoil on this generation. “ Mathew
                      > 23:30-35
                      > Jesus calls Peter “Satan” and Judas, “A Devil”  So, all we need,
                      > is to connect!  Lets go back to Genesis. When God calls for making of Man,
                      > who was this Man? ‘Let us make Man, in our own image,in
                      > the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of
                      > the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild beasts, and all the
                      > reptiles that crawl upon the earth’ God created man, in the image of
                      > himself, and in the image of God he created him, male and female he created
                      > them. God blessed them, saying, ‘be fruitful, multiply, fill the
                      > earth, and conquer it. Be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of the heaven,
                      > and all living animals on earth’ “Genesis 1:26-29. The Answer is given in the
                      > Book of Zechariah!  We read; “The word of Yahweh about Israel. It is I, Yahweh, who
                      > speaks, who spread the heaven, and founded the earth, and formed the
                      > Spirit of Man, within him.”Zechariah 12:1-2  Therefore the Great
                      > Dragon, was a Spirit! Satan, aka, the Devil, is the Human Spirit. He is the
                      > One, who knew evil, and was the one in Gods court, who expressed evil. Book of
                      > Job says it. “One the day, when the sons of God came to attend on Yahweh and
                      > among them was Satan”  Job:1:6-20 A Human Being is
                      > Satanic, because He is Satan. That why he requires a Redeemer, who is  Jesus The Christ! The Christ, is Hell!!  See this;“In the Sixth year, on
                      > the fifth day of the sixth month, I was sitting at home and the elders of Judah
                      > were sitting with me, when the hand of Lord Yahweh fell upon me. I looked, and
                      > saw something that looked like a man. Downwards from what seemed like the
                      > loins, he was fire, and upwards, from his loins, he seemed to shine like polished
                      > bronze. He stretched out what seemed to be a hand, and took me by
                      > the hair, and the Spirit lifted me into the air and in visions from God, took
                      > me to Jerusalem” Ezekiel 8: 1-4"
                      > I turned around, to see who had spoken to me, and when I turned, I saw seven
                      > golden lamp stands, and surrounded by them, a figure like the Son of Man,
                      > dressed in a long robe, tied at the waist with a golden girdle. His head and
                      > his hair were white as white wool, or as snow, his eyes like burning flame, his
                      > feet like burnished bronze, when it had been refined in furnace, and his voice,
                      > like the sound of the ocean" Revelation 1:12-16. WATCH YOURSELVES!!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@...>
                      > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 7:19 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course God.  God...being perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel... blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work.  Even the apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus stopped him.   Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point.  Man...not close enough to God....slayed
                      > the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans.  Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for them.  They rejected him and hated him.  As the world does to many Christians. 
                      > On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:
                      >
                    • alla yadak
                      ________________________________ From: Cristina Caudill To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2013,
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 21, 2013
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                        ________________________________
                        From: Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@...>
                        To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2013, 6:19
                        Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil




                        I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course  God. 
                          yes, that is true
                           God...being perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel...true.   but now he is lowest.



                          blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work.  Even the apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus stopped him.   Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point.  Man...not close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans.  Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for them.  They rejected him and hated him.  As the world does to many Christians. 
                        On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:

                         
                      • AJ R
                        I do not ascribe evil to what you term an ex-angel. In fact, I believe evil is exercised by individuals who lack a spiritual foundation that genders love,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 21, 2013
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                          I do not ascribe evil to what you term an ex-angel.
                          In fact, I believe evil is exercised by individuals who lack a spiritual foundation that genders love, peace and tranquility.

                          I understand that we were introduced to this worlds lusts un-willingly, and if we didn't gain any spiritual knowledge of Gods will, then by all rights, we would be doomed to exercise any evil our minds could imagine.

                          A Godly conscience, then offsets any evil desires, being that Jesus had already conquered them for us.
                          So in Him, we fine victory. A perfect state!

                          Blessings, AJ

                          --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, alla yadak <allayadak2000@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@...>
                          > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2013, 6:19
                          > Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course  God. 
                          >  yes, that is true
                          >    God...being perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel...true.  but now he is lowest.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >   blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work.  Even the apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus stopped him.   Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point.  Man...not close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans.  Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for them.  They rejected him and hated him.  As the world does to many Christians. 
                          > On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                        • RalphM
                          And I would just add to your foundation of love, peace, and tranquility a thirst for God .
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 22, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            And I would just add to your foundation of love, peace, and tranquility "a thirst for God".

                            --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, "AJ R" <look3467@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I do not ascribe evil to what you term an ex-angel.
                            > In fact, I believe evil is exercised by individuals who lack a spiritual foundation that genders love, peace and tranquility.
                            >
                            > I understand that we were introduced to this worlds lusts un-willingly, and if we didn't gain any spiritual knowledge of Gods will, then by all rights, we would be doomed to exercise any evil our minds could imagine.
                            >
                            > A Godly conscience, then offsets any evil desires, being that Jesus had already conquered them for us.
                            > So in Him, we fine victory. A perfect state!
                            >
                            > Blessings, AJ
                            >
                            > --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, alla yadak <allayadak2000@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ________________________________
                            > > From: Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@>
                            > > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2013, 6:19
                            > > Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course  God. 
                            > >  yes, that is true
                            > >    God...being perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the start..the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react etc....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel...true.  but now he is lowest.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >   blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work.  Even the apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus stopped him.   Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point.  Man...not close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans.  Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for them.  They rejected him and hated him.  As the world does to many Christians. 
                            > > On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >  
                            > >
                            >
                          • Brother Dave
                            ________________________________ From: Cristina Caudill To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 22, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment


                              From: Cristina Caudill <ctinacaudill1978@...>
                              To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:19 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Christian-Philosophy] problem with evil

                              Hi Christina and all,

                              Sorry for my late reply.  My new comments are interspersed in blue within your post in black.

                               
                              > I disagree....the first 2 humans..Adam and Eve were perfectly made inferior creatures to the angels and of course God.  
                              No humans on earth were made perfect in body or mind or soul. That is proved by God stating: "Be you perfect; even as I AM perfect." That strongly implies that we all start our less than perfect here.  Also: "All have sinned (except our God-Man Jesus Christ) and have fallen short of the Glory of God."  The first human male and female, with God-created souls were Andon and Fonta, who lived on earth almost one million years ago.  Then, about 960,000 years later, around 38,000 years ago, Jesus Christ made and sent down to earth superior (but still not yet perfect) Material Sons of God
                              named Adam and Eve, to procreate one million of their kind and then go out and mate with selected humans to biologically uplift primitive mankind to so-called modern mankind.  
                              > God...being perfect...only has lesser creations not equal to himself so the math is against us from the start..
                              God the Universal Father on all-perfect, Eternal Paradise has two co-equal and all-perfect Persons with Him: God the Eternal Son and God the Infinite Spirit. All Beings on infinite sized Paradise are made eternally all perfect or are all-perfected before being eternally admitted into Paradise.  We humans start out as the lowest level of all the Sons of God; and our Universe Creator Father-Son of God Jesus Christ will lovingly, mercifully and perfectly Guide us humans up through many progressively higher soul-level and then Spirit-level Heavens for possibly one trillion years until we are all-perfected in Spirit and then qualified to be eternally Resident with God on Paradise and with his fully perfect Family of God there ! What a Glorious, Sacred Final Destiny we will have !  
                              > the Bible tells us what to do to be solid in the Lord...even how to work eat sleep pray walk talk think act react etc
                              Jesus loves and trusts us to have true spiritual liberty - it doesn't matter what we eat - meat, vegetables, fruit, nuts, grains etc. Jesus did away with the false Jewish Kosher food rules. How we walk and sleep is also not very important. I might want to ride a bike or use snowshoes, etc.  I can sleep well under many different conditions. God has given each human everywhere an absolutely unique and forever unchanging personality (I am a son of I AM) which is without duplicate in both time and in all Eternity.  So each thought, prayer, reflection, Communion with God will be refreshingly unique between God and each of us. 
                              Here is what God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit each and all desire that we strive to progressively achieve:  
                              The Urantia Book Page-2054 [Jesus Christ, shortly after he resurrected himself (as he said) and before he ascended back to God the Father on Paradise, said:]  "And the fruits of the divine spirit which are yielded in the lives of spirit-born and God-knowing mortals are: loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace." [no copyright, freely share]  
                              > ....however...satan...being superior as an ex angel... blinds the minds and tricks and waits to strike when your weak and can even possess a body and spirit if it becomes weak in faith. He lies and if u believe he can't touch and test you...you may be evil already and not know it....or perhaps a saint undefiled...that's a master evil craftsman at work.  Even the apostle Paul was deceived to do his will and torture Christians until Jesus stopped him.   Job was harrassed and tested...and only Jesus...God's favorite and first son could resist him at his weakest point.  Man...not close enough to God....slayed the innocent gentle lamb and tortured him for loving humans.  Self destruction if you think about it...he came here for them.  They rejected him and hated him.  As the world does to many Christians. 
                              The Bible clearly states that "All (Spirit) Power is of God" and "There is no (Spirit) Power but of God".  Jesus states in and as God to us and here in Spirit with us:  "I AM the True Light (of/as God) Who Shines and the darkness is not !"  Please read, pray and believe these true statements in the Bible. Also the very important words of Jesus in John 12:31-32 and John 16:11 and others.  Jesus removed all powers from all of his very junior, formerly minor administrator Sons of God Lucifer; and lower, his assistant Satan; and lower, the former, fallen, now deposed planetary prince.  Many humans on earth today are still willingly do terrible evils on their own, and thus are sinners.  "The devil(s) made me do it" is just an irresponsible cop-out that does not remove human sins, or worse any iniquities ! Sadly, the backward Catholic church even today has two or more "official priests" who run around doing "exorcisms" ! There are exorcising priests now in prison in Europe for murdering innocent children and adults with their ungodly torture of humans to "drive the devils out of them !" What a shame !  But not for much longer ! God is bringing perfect, Divine loving and merciful judgment on all of these barbaric church practices ! Will they survive? Not much longer if they don't rapidly reform their ways.  Jesus states that calling any human on earth "spiritual Father" is a sin. Worship of humans (mary, saints) is also a terrible sin ! In Jesus, we are directly connected to God with no mere human intermediaries in the Heavens or on earth !  "Priesthood of all believers !" 
                              Very slowly do humans change their barbaric religious practices ! But God the Universal Father on Paradise and Omnipresent loves all humans and desires to save them in and as our one Sovereign Universe Creator and Savior Who is Jesus Christ !  Amen !
                              Peace and progress in Spirit and in Father-Son Truth,

                              Brother Dave

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                              On Aug 16, 2013 11:55 PM, "Brother Dave" <truthist@...> wrote:


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