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RANSOM AND REDEMPTION : THE URANTIA BOOK VS. THE BIBLE

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  • Isa
    Bro. Dave and All Christians who read the Urantia Book: RANSOM for REDEMPTION in the THE URANTIA BOOK and the BIBLE appears to be in irreconciliable conflict.
    Message 1 of 2 , May 5, 2013
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      Bro. Dave and All Christians who read the Urantia Book:

      RANSOM for REDEMPTION in the THE URANTIA BOOK and the BIBLE appears to be in irreconciliable conflict. The UB denies that Jesus died to RANSOM mankind from sin. The Bible clearly records Jesus as saying in Mt 20:24-28: Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." NIV

      Here below, I believe I have the truth to reconcile the conflict.

      May the Universal Father in the name of Christ Jesus Michael bless us all in our search for greater spiritual truths!

      ISA
      www.newlightandlifeministry.org
      See UB and the Bible.

      From the Urantia Book

      1 - (89:7.1) Moses attempted to end human sacrifices by inaugurating the ransom as a substitute. He established a systematic schedule which enabled his people to escape the worst results of their rash and foolish vows. Lands, properties, and children could be redeemed according to the established fees, which were payable to the priests. Those groups which ceased to sacrifice their first-born soon possessed great advantages over less advanced neighbors who continued these atrocious acts. Many such backward tribes were not only greatly weakened by this loss of sons, but even the succession of leadership was often broken.



      2 - (89:9.1) The human sacrifice, throughout the course of the evolution of Urantian rituals, has advanced from the bloody business of man-eating to higher and more symbolic levels. The early rituals of sacrifice bred the later ceremonies of sacrament. In more recent times the priest alone would partake of a bit of the cannibalistic sacrifice or a drop of human blood, and then all would partake of the animal substitute. These early ideas of ransom, redemption, and covenants have evolved into the later-day sacramental services. And all this ceremonial evolution has exerted a mighty socializing influence.

      3 - (92:3.2) Religion has always been largely a matter of rites, rituals, observances, ceremonies, and dogmas. It has usually become tainted with that persistently mischief-making error, the chosen-people delusion. The cardinal religious ideas of incantation, inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, covenant, uncleanness, purification, prophecy, original sin — they all go back to the early times of
      primordial ghost fear.

      4 - (96:7.7) Only at Ur did a voice arise to cry out the mercy of God, saying: "He shall pray to God and shall find favor with him and shall see his face with joy, for God will give to man divine righteousness." Thus from Ur there is preached salvation, divine favor, by faith: "He is gracious to the repentant and says, 'Deliver him from going down in the pit, for I have found a ransom. [My comment: What kind of ransom - a living or a non-living thing? . . . animal or human or a thing?] If any say, 'I have sinned and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not,' God will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and he shall see the light." Not since the times of Melchizedek had the Levantine world heard such a ringing and cheering message of human salvation as this extraordinary teaching of Elihu, the prophet of Ur and priest of the Salem believers, that is,
      the remnant of the onetime Melchizedek colony in Mesopotamia.

      5 - (131:2.13) "And to all who love the Lord supremely and their neighbors like themselves, the God of heaven says: 'I will ransom [My comment: Again with what?] you from the grave; I will redeem you from death. I will be merciful to your children, as well as just. Have I not said of my creatures on earth, you are the sons of the living God? And have I not loved you with an everlasting love? Have I not called you to become like me and to dwell forever with me in Paradise?'"

      6 - (188:4.3) Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes (Mine: Lucifer and Satan) of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master's death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in aneffort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him.
      [My comment: All of the above are absolutely true but said truths do not belie the statement of Jesus in the Bible that his life was indeed "a ransom for many." See my full comment below and Heb. 9:15].

      My comment:
      Could it be that when Jesus decided to go through death on the cross, which according to the Urantia Book was not necessary to complete his bestowal so as to gain complete sovereignty
      over his own universe Nebadon,
      it was to impress on his apostles that
      "by the shedding of his blood they should end the practice of animal sacrifice demanded by the Old Covenant"
      which they believed was necessary for the forgiveness of their sins - transgression against Moses' Law -
      in view of their belief that
      "Without the sheddding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins?"

      It is blasphemous to believe that Jesus' death was a ransom to satisfy the demand of an offended God of infinite love and mercy due to man's so-called original sin, which Judaism denies, nor the demand of the rebellious Lucifer or Satan to free man from their clutch.
      But it is a true ransom just the same to free the conscience of his apostles and those of the Jewish people - and eventually those of the Gentile followers of the Jewish Messiah Jesus -
      from Moses Law that demanded animal sacrifice which Jesus strongly detested.
      Heb 9:15 from the Bible settled this once and for all!
      "15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance —
      now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the
      sins committed under the first covenant."


      We should remember that the apostles who wrote the pertinent books of the Bible from memory were the first recepients of the SPIRIT OF TRUTH that Jesus promised to send them
      to lead them to all spiritual truths and quoting Jesus declaring his life as a "ransom for many" could only be the most basic of all truths!.
    • Brother Dave
      Dear Isa and all here, There are at least two types of religion: Evolutionary religion of humans which goes from terrible and barbaric to slowly improving over
      Message 2 of 2 , May 5, 2013
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        Dear Isa and all here,

        There are at least two types of religion: Evolutionary religion of humans which goes from terrible and barbaric to slowly improving over many thousands of years. God provides for major uplifts of human evolutionary religion by providing Epochal Revelations of Truth that become more complex each time as mankind continues to slowly evolve in Truth perception and wisdom.

        In The Urantia Book, human religious writings or "scriptures" published are placed in quotes.  These quotes almost always contain a mix of truths and errors unless The Urantia Book somewhere reinforces all statements in a human-authored religious quote as being True.

        Many of the quotes containing the word "ransom" are partial truths and partial errors. This is confirmed by what this Fifth Epochal Revelation states elsewhere.

        The word "ransom" also has several meanings.  Here is an example from a College dictionary:

        ransom

        1 : to deliver especially from sin or its penalty  [the better definition as God delivers us from sin by the compelling power of his infinite love, lavish mercy and perfect corrective ministry to all.]

        2 : to free from captivity or punishment by paying a price
        [This is not at all a Christian belief that is true. Jesus never taught such error. That came from early Jewish (human origin) beliefs that "there is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood" and "a scapegoat" or perfect human or animal "sacrifice" (murder) is needed to "change" God from "wrath" to being loving and merciful again.  God is forever unchanging and always has loved and does love and will love all humans with no sacrifice or ransom needed.]

        synonyms see RESCUE

        Here are more quotes about ransom  and one quote on redemption on page 2018 as found in TUB:
        [no copyright, freely share]

        Page-974 PAPER 89 SIN, SACRIFICE, AND ATONEMENT
        Primitive man regarded himself as being in debt to the spirits, as standing in need of redemption. As the savages looked at it, in justice the spirits might have visited much more bad luck upon them. As time passed, this concept developed into the doctrine of sin and salvation. The soul was looked upon as coming into the world under forfeit--original sin. The soul must be ransomed; a scapegoat must be provided. The head-hunter, in addition to practicing the cult of skull worship, was able to provide a substitute for his own life, a scapeman.

        Page-981 7. MODIFICATIONS OF HUMAN SACRIFICE
        Moses attempted to end human sacrifices by inaugurating the ransom as a substitute. He established a systematic schedule which enabled his people to escape the worst results of their rash and foolish vows. Lands, properties, and children could be redeemed according to the established fees, which were payable to the priests. Those groups which ceased to sacrifice their first-born soon possessed great advantages over less advanced neighbors who continued these atrocious acts. Many such backward tribes were not only greatly weakened by this loss of sons, but even the succession of leadership was often broken.

        Page-982 Many of the peculiar associations of sex laxity with primitive worship had their origin in connection with human sacrifice. In olden times, if a woman met head-hunters, she could redeem her life by sexual surrender. Later, a maiden consecrated to the gods as a sacrifice might elect to redeem her life by dedicating her body for life to the sacred sex service of the temple; in this way she could earn her redemption money. The ancients regarded it as highly elevating to have sex relations with a woman thus engaged in ransoming her life. It was a religious ceremony to consort with these sacred maidens, and in addition, this whole ritual afforded an acceptable excuse for commonplace sexual gratification. This was a subtle species of self-deception which both the maidens and their consorts delighted to practice upon themselves. The mores always drag behind in the evolutionary advance of civilization, thus providing sanction for the earlier and more savagelike sex practices of the evolving races.

        Page-983  9. SACRIFICES AND SACRAMENTS
        The human sacrifice, throughout the course of the evolution of Urantian rituals, has advanced from the bloody business of man-eating to higher and more symbolic levels. The early rituals of sacrifice bred the later ceremonies of sacrament. In more recent times the priest alone would partake of a bit of the cannibalistic sacrifice or a drop of human blood, and then all would partake of the animal substitute. These early ideas of ransom, redemption, and covenants have evolved into the later-day sacramental services. And all this ceremonial evolution has exerted a mighty socializing influence.

        Page-1005 Religion has always been largely a matter of rites, rituals, observances, ceremonies, and dogmas. It has usually become tainted with that persistently mischief-making error, the chosen-people delusion. The cardinal religious ideas of incantation, inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, covenant, uncleanness, purification, prophecy, original sinÄthey all go back to the early times of primordial ghost fear.

        Page-1060 Only at Ur did a voice arise to cry out the mercy of God, saying: "He shall pray to God and shall find favor with him and shall see his face with joy, for God will give to man divine righteousness." Thus from Ur there is preached salvation, divine favor, by faith: "He is gracious to the repentant and says, 'Deliver him from going down in the pit, for I have found a ransom.' If any say, 'I have sinned and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not,' God will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and he shall see the light." Not since the times of Melchizedek had the Levantine world heard such a ringing and cheering message of human salvation as this extraordinary teaching of Elihu, the prophet of Ur and priest of the Salem believers, that is, the remnant of the onetime Melchizedek colony in Mesopotamia.

        Page-1373 It was about the middle of February that Jesus became humanly assured that he was destined to perform a mission on earth for the enlightenment of man and the revelation of God. Momentous decisions, coupled with far-reaching plans, were formulating in the mind of this youth, who was, to outward appearances, an average Jewish lad of Nazareth. The intelligent life of all Nebadon looked on with fascination and amazement as all this began to unfold in the thinking and acting of the now adolescent carpenter's son.
            On the first day of the week, March 20, A.D. 7, Jesus graduated from the course of training in the local school connected with the Nazareth synagogue. This was a great day in the life of any ambitious Jewish family, the day when the first-born son was pronounced a "son of the commandment" and the ransomed first-born of the Lord God of Israel, a "child of the Most High" and servant of the Lord of all the earth.

        Page-1446 "And to all who love the Lord supremely and their neighbors like themselves, the God of heaven says: 'I will ransom you from the grave; I will redeem you from death. I will be merciful to your children, as well as just. Have I not said of my creatures on earth, you are the sons of the living God? And have I not loved you with an everlasting love? Have I not called you to become like me and to dwell forever with me in Paradise?"'

        Page-2016 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evildoing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master's death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him.

        Page-2017 Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.

        Page-2017 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

        Page-2017 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature's faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be "forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors."

        Page-2018 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus' death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice--mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Earth. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master's love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

        Page-2061 Jesus lived a life which is a revelation of man submitted to the Father's will, not an example for any man literally to attempt to follow. This life in the flesh, together with his death on the cross and subsequent resurrection, presently became a new gospel of the ransom which had thus been paid in order to purchase man back from the clutch of the evil one--from the condemnation of an offended God. Nevertheless, even though the gospel did become greatly distorted, it remains a fact that this new message about Jesus carried along with it many of the fundamental truths and teachings of his earlier gospel of the kingdom. And, sooner or later, these concealed truths of the fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men will emerge to effectually transform the civilization of all mankind.

         

        Peace and progress in Spirit and in Father-Son Truth,


        Brother Dave


        http://www.blogtalkradio.com/brother-dave0137

        Each Saturday & Sunday 3PM CST live internet radio show
        All past shows are archived there to play.


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        OF JESUS and ABOUT JESUS and IN JESUS


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        Come learn and share in one or all !





        From: Isa <isalcordo@...>
        To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sun, May 5, 2013 8:19:10 PM
        Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] RANSOM AND REDEMPTION : THE URANTIA BOOK VS. THE BIBLE

         

        Bro. Dave and All Christians who read the Urantia Book:

        RANSOM for REDEMPTION in the THE URANTIA BOOK and the BIBLE appears to be in irreconciliable conflict. The UB denies that Jesus died to RANSOM mankind from sin. The Bible clearly records Jesus as saying in Mt 20:24-28: Jesus called them together and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 26 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 27 and whoever wants to be first must be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." NIV

        Here below, I believe I have the truth to reconcile the conflict.

        May the Universal Father in the name of Christ Jesus Michael bless us all in our search for greater spiritual truths!

        ISA
        www.newlightandlifeministry.org
        See UB and the Bible.

        From the Urantia Book

        1 - (89:7.1) Moses attempted to end human sacrifices by inaugurating the ransom as a substitute. He established a systematic schedule which enabled his people to escape the worst results of their rash and foolish vows. Lands, properties, and children could be redeemed according to the established fees, which were payable to the priests. Those groups which ceased to sacrifice their first-born soon possessed great advantages over less advanced neighbors who continued these atrocious acts. Many such backward tribes were not only greatly weakened by this loss of sons, but even the succession of leadership was often broken.



        2 - (89:9.1) The human sacrifice, throughout the course of the evolution of Urantian rituals, has advanced from the bloody business of man-eating to higher and more symbolic levels. The early rituals of sacrifice bred the later ceremonies of sacrament. In more recent times the priest alone would partake of a bit of the cannibalistic sacrifice or a drop of human blood, and then all would partake of the animal substitute. These early ideas of ransom, redemption, and covenants have evolved into the later-day sacramental services. And all this ceremonial evolution has exerted a mighty socializing influence.

        3 - (92:3.2) Religion has always been largely a matter of rites, rituals, observances, ceremonies, and dogmas. It has usually become tainted with that persistently mischief-making error, the chosen-people delusion. The cardinal religious ideas of incantation, inspiration, revelation, propitiation, repentance, atonement, intercession, sacrifice, prayer, confession, worship, survival after death, sacrament, ritual, ransom, salvation, redemption, covenant, uncleanness, purification, prophecy, original sin — they all go back to the early times of
        primordial ghost fear.

        4 - (96:7.7) Only at Ur did a voice arise to cry out the mercy of God, saying: "He shall pray to God and shall find favor with him and shall see his face with joy, for God will give to man divine righteousness." Thus from Ur there is preached salvation, divine favor, by faith: "He is gracious to the repentant and says, 'Deliver him from going down in the pit, for I have found a ransom. [My comment: What kind of ransom - a living or a non-living thing? . . . animal or human or a thing?] If any say, 'I have sinned and perverted that which was right, and it profited me not,' God will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and he shall see the light." Not since the times of Melchizedek had the Levantine world heard such a ringing and cheering message of human salvation as this extraordinary teaching of Elihu, the prophet of Ur and priest of the Salem believers, that is,
        the remnant of the onetime Melchizedek colony in Mesopotamia.

        5 - (131:2.13) "And to all who love the Lord supremely and their neighbors like themselves, the God of heaven says: 'I will ransom [My comment: Again with what?] you from the grave; I will redeem you from death. I will be merciful to your children, as well as just. Have I not said of my creatures on earth, you are the sons of the living God? And have I not loved you with an everlasting love? Have I not called you to become like me and to dwell forever with me in Paradise?'"

        6 - (188:4.3) Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes (Mine: Lucifer and Satan) of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master's death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in aneffort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him.
        [My comment: All of the above are absolutely true but said truths do not belie the statement of Jesus in the Bible that his life was indeed "a ransom for many." See my full comment below and Heb. 9:15].

        My comment:
        Could it be that when Jesus decided to go through death on the cross, which according to the Urantia Book was not necessary to complete his bestowal so as to gain complete sovereignty
        over his own universe Nebadon,
        it was to impress on his apostles that
        "by the shedding of his blood they should end the practice of animal sacrifice demanded by the Old Covenant"
        which they believed was necessary for the forgiveness of their sins - transgression against Moses' Law -
        in view of their belief that
        "Without the sheddding of blood, there can be no forgiveness of sins?"

        It is blasphemous to believe that Jesus' death was a ransom to satisfy the demand of an offended God of infinite love and mercy due to man's so-called original sin, which Judaism denies, nor the demand of the rebellious Lucifer or Satan to free man from their clutch.
        But it is a true ransom just the same to free the conscience of his apostles and those of the Jewish people - and eventually those of the Gentile followers of the Jewish Messiah Jesus -
        from Moses Law that demanded animal sacrifice which Jesus strongly detested.
        Heb 9:15 from the Bible settled this once and for all!
        "15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance —
        now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the
        sins committed under the first covenant."

        We should remember that the apostles who wrote the pertinent books of the Bible from memory were the first recepients of the SPIRIT OF TRUTH that Jesus promised to send them
        to lead them to all spiritual truths and quoting Jesus declaring his life as a "ransom for many" could only be the most basic of all truths!.

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