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Re: [Christian-Philosophy] Hello Br. Max

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  • jude theddeus
    Hello Max and others,   I had been following this discussion, but did not really understand what you mean by saying catholic expanded. I do not find
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 31, 2010
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      Hello Max and others,
       
      I had been following this discussion, but did not really understand what you mean by saying 'catholic expanded.' I do not find anything new in saying 'into the way of Jesus' since the demand of Jesus to follow him implies choosing his way of life.
      Connected to this is the first question you have raised on the 'Franciscan Friar'. As far as my knowledge goes, there is no question of one step higher or lower. Among the franciscans there are both, brothers and priests. The stress on a life of brotherhood, differentiating life and ministry. St. Francis of Assisi was careful to differentiate between ministry and life. In short, the charism of Franciscans is to life of Gospel brotherhood in fraternities irrespective of the work one does.
       
      Thanks
       
      Gancis Jude 

      --- On Mon, 1/2/10, wjt400 <wjt400@...> wrote:

      From: wjt400 <wjt400@...>
      Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] Hello Br. Max
      To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, 1 February, 2010, 1:20

       
      Br. Max,
      Hello and welcome. What is a Franciscan Friar...a step down from a priest? This I find very interesting.

      I am a Catholic that has expanded into the Way of Jesus (unorganized) . I am not a Jesusonian.

      Isn't the FER the Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth or is this something different?

      Blessings,
      Will


    • wjt400
      Gancis Jude, Catholic expanded are my words that described my personal spiritual journey (as well as others spiritual journey). I was raised Catholic, but
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 1, 2010
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        Gancis Jude,

        "Catholic expanded" are my words that described my personal spiritual
        journey (as well as others' spiritual journey).

        I was raised Catholic, but after a near-death experience began
        existential questions & revelations. I have expanded from religion
        into a spirituality of being. I felt I didn't change, but expanded my
        belief system into the group of the name "The Way of Jesus." John 14:6
        is a good verse for that direction in my life. Some Catholics accuse me
        of apostasy--so be it.

        In blended history, Jewish proto-Christians were called "The Way" by
        fellow Jews.

        Catholic St. Josemaria Escriva de Balaguer, Opus Dei founder, wrote the
        book "The Way."

        I knew of the different hierarchical titles in the Catholic Church, but
        Br. Max didn't disclose his religion or explain his title description.
        I thank you for your input.

        Blessings,

        Will

        --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, jude theddeus
        <gancis02@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Max and others,
        > Â
        > I had been following this discussion, but did not really understand
        what you mean by saying 'catholic expanded.' I do not find anything new
        in saying 'into the way of Jesus' since the demand of Jesus to
        follow him implies choosing his way of life.
        > Connected to this is the first question you have raised on the
        'Franciscan Friar'. As far as my knowledge goes, there is no question of
        one step higher or lower. Among the franciscans there are both, brothers
        and priests.. The stress on a life of brotherhood, differentiating life
        and ministry. St. Francis of Assisi was careful to differentiate between
        ministry and life.. In short, the charism of Franciscans is to life
        of Gospel brotherhood in fraternities irrespective of the work one does.
        > Â
        > Thanks
        > Â
        > Gancis JudeÂ
        >
        > --- On Mon, 1/2/10, wjt400 wjt400@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: wjt400 wjt400@...
        > Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] Hello Br. Max
        > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Monday, 1 February, 2010, 1:20
        >
        >
        > Â
        >
        >
        >
        > Br. Max,
        > Hello and welcome. What is a Franciscan Friar...a step down from a
        priest? This I find very interesting.
        >
        > I am a Catholic that has expanded into the Way of Jesus (unorganized)
        . I am not a Jesusonian.
        >
        > Isn't the FER the Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth or is this
        something different?
        >
        > Blessings,
        > Will
        >
      • Br Max
        Hi Will, I m not a Priest or a Deacon, although some Franciscan Friars are. Friars are similar to Monks, in that we live our Gospel centered life under a set
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 4, 2010
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          Hi Will,

          I'm not a Priest or a Deacon, although some Franciscan Friars are. Friars are similar to Monks, in that we live our Gospel centered life under a set of binding vows. Monks tend to live in isolated locations in closed communities, Friars usually choose to live in ordinary everyday public surroundings. Traditionally in the West, Monks and Friars were Roman Catholic, but times have changed. Global Franciscans now include Anglican, Lutheran, Celtic, and even Buddhist. I used to be an Anglican Franciscan but have retrained to become an Ecumenical Catholic Franciscan. I'm a Roman Catholic but the Franciscan Order I belong to is not under the authority of Rome... sounds complicated and it is !!

          Hope I have managed to answer your original question.

          Blessings,

          Br Maximillian EFO


          --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, "wjt400" <wjt400@...> wrote:
          >
          > Br. Max,
          > Hello and welcome. What is a Franciscan Friar...a step down from a priest? This I find very interesting.
          >
          > I am a Catholic that has expanded into the Way of Jesus (unorganized). I am not a Jesusonian.
          >
          > Isn't the FER the Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth or is this something different?
          >
          > Blessings,
          > Will
          >
        • wjt400
          Br Max, You lead an interesting and inspiring life of God. I knew the Catholic Church and the Anglican Church had some unification process in action. Is the
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 4, 2010
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            Br Max,

            You lead an interesting and inspiring life of God. I knew the Catholic
            Church and the Anglican Church had some unification process in action.
            Is the Order of Ecumenical Franciscans (OEF) part of this
            reclassification? It is confusing!

            So as a friar in the Order of Ecumenical Franciscans Just you or you and
            your group are not under the jurisdiction of any particular communion?
            You are catholic in that you recognise the catholicity (universality) of
            the Church, but not Roman Catholic as not under the authority of the
            Pope. Do you recognise the Pope in any leadership position of your
            Faith?

            Complicated and confusing , it is!

            Blessings,

            Will



            -- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, "Br Max" <greyhabit@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi Will,
            >
            > I'm not a Priest or a Deacon, although some Franciscan Friars are.
            Friars are similar to Monks, in that we live our Gospel centered life
            under a set of binding vows. Monks tend to live in isolated locations in
            closed communities, Friars usually choose to live in ordinary everyday
            public surroundings. Traditionally in the West, Monks and Friars were
            Roman Catholic, but times have changed. Global Franciscans now include
            Anglican, Lutheran, Celtic, and even Buddhist. I used to be an Anglican
            Franciscan but have retrained to become an Ecumenical Catholic
            Franciscan. I'm a Roman Catholic but the Franciscan Order I belong to is
            not under the authority of Rome... sounds complicated and it is !!
            >
            > Hope I have managed to answer your original question.
            >
            > Blessings,
            >
            > Br Maximillian EFO
            >
            >
            > --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, "wjt400" wjt400@ wrote:
            > >
            > > Br. Max,
            > > Hello and welcome. What is a Franciscan Friar...a step down from a
            priest? This I find very interesting.
            > >
            > > I am a Catholic that has expanded into the Way of Jesus
            (unorganized). I am not a Jesusonian.
            > >
            > > Isn't the FER the Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth or is this
            something different?
            > >
            > > Blessings,
            > > Will
            > >
            >
          • Brother Dave
            Hi Brother Max and Will and all, Are either of you, or others here, familiar with the group Opus Dei ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei This seems to be
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 4, 2010
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              Hi Brother Max and Will and all,

              Are either of you, or others here, familiar with the group Opus Dei ?

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei

              This seems to be another group of many that is getting away from traditional ecclesiastical authority and towards personal God-consciousness even out in the secular world to help transform it.

              Personal note: I call myself "Brother", as I am a Jesusonian Christian close to some Universalists; and I teach that all humans are now beloved sons or daughters of God and in the growing trans-denominational Family of God in Jesus on earth. We do not ordain ministers or teachers; that is a personal decision. Many of us have home-family Christian Fellowship groups by many hundreds of different, personally chosen names, or no name at all.

              Peace and progress in Spirit and in Truth,


              Brother Dave


              http://www.LedByJesus.org/   our newest Christian website


              http://www.PureChristians.org/ Gospel enlarging website,
              proclaiming worldwide the True Religion
              OF JESUS and ABOUT JESUS and IN JESUS


              Come learn and share in one or all !




              From: Br Max <greyhabit@...>
              To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 6:33:03 AM
              Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: Hello Br. Max

               

              Hi Will,

              I'm not a Priest or a Deacon, although some Franciscan Friars are. Friars are similar to Monks, in that we live our Gospel centered life under a set of binding vows. Monks tend to live in isolated locations in closed communities, Friars usually choose to live in ordinary everyday public surroundings. Traditionally in the West, Monks and Friars were Roman Catholic, but times have changed. Global Franciscans now include Anglican, Lutheran, Celtic, and even Buddhist. I used to be an Anglican Franciscan but have retrained to become an Ecumenical Catholic Franciscan. I'm a Roman Catholic but the Franciscan Order I belong to is not under the authority of Rome... sounds complicated and it is !!

              Hope I have managed to answer your original question.

              Blessings,

              Br Maximillian EFO

              --- In Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com, "wjt400" <wjt400@...> wrote:
              >
              > Br. Max,
              > Hello and welcome. What is a Franciscan Friar...a step down from a priest? This I find very interesting.
              >
              > I am a Catholic that has expanded into the Way of Jesus (unorganized) . I am not a Jesusonian.
              >
              > Isn't the FER the Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth or is this something different?
              >
              > Blessings,
              > Will
              >

            • wjt400
              Brother Dave, Yes, I know of Opus Dei. I was told they do a lot of good in the world. I was also told that members turned their wealth (i.e., goods,
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 5, 2010
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                Brother Dave,
                Yes, I know of Opus Dei.  I was told they do a lot of good in the world. I was also told that  members turned their wealth (i.e., goods, services, money) to the Opus Dei organization.  I read the Wikipedia article that you supplied; it did cover the apparent cult side of the organization.  Yet, it is accepted as legitimate within the Catholic Church. Most members being lay persons, or contributors.   

                Thanks for sharing. So you believe in Heaven & Hell? I remember a Universal Christian that believed that everyone was forgiven & loved by Jesus dying on the cross & God be an all loving god. Hitler, Pol Pot, the Devil, among others, were all safe from eternal damnation. Is a Universalist the same as a Universal Christian?

                So fellow Jesusonians have conventions or some kind of get together? With my group we stay together through emails or personal visits.

                God bless,
                Will

                --- In Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com, Brother Dave <truthist@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Brother Max and Will and all,
                >
                > Are either of you, or others here, familiar with the group Opus Dei ?
                >
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Dei
                >
                > This seems to be another group of many that is getting away from traditional ecclesiastical authority and towards personal God-consciousness even out in the secular world to help transform it.
                >
                > Personal note: I call myself "Brother", as I am a Jesusonian Christian close to some Universalists; and I teach that all humans are now beloved sons or daughters of God and in the growing trans-denominational Family of God in Jesus on earth. We do not ordain ministers or teachers; that is a personal decision. Many of us have home-family Christian Fellowship groups by many hundreds of different, personally chosen names, or no name at all.
                >
                >
                > Peace and progress in Spirit and in Truth,
                >
                > Brother Dave
                >
                > http://www.LedByJesus.org/ our newest Christian website
                >
                > http://www.PureChristians.org/ Gospel enlarging website,
                > proclaiming worldwide the True Religion
                > OF JESUS and ABOUT JESUS and IN JESUS
                >
                > Come learn and share in one or all !
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Br Max greyhabit@...
                > To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 6:33:03 AM
                > Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: Hello Br. Max
                >
                >
                > Hi Will,
                >
                > I'm not a Priest or a Deacon, although some Franciscan Friars are. Friars are similar to Monks, in that we live our Gospel centered life under a set of binding vows. Monks tend to live in isolated locations in closed communities, Friars usually choose to live in ordinary everyday public surroundings. Traditionally in the West, Monks and Friars were Roman Catholic, but times have changed. Global Franciscans now include Anglican, Lutheran, Celtic, and even Buddhist. I used to be an Anglican Franciscan but have retrained to become an Ecumenical Catholic Franciscan. I'm a Roman Catholic but the Franciscan Order I belong to is not under the authority of Rome... sounds complicated and it is !!
                >
                > Hope I have managed to answer your original question.
                >
                > Blessings,
                >
                > Br Maximillian EFO
                >
                > --- In Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com, "wjt400" wjt400@ wrote:
                > >
                > > Br. Max,
                > > Hello and welcome. What is a Franciscan Friar...a step down from a priest? This I find very interesting.
                > >
                > > I am a Catholic that has expanded into the Way of Jesus (unorganized) . I am not a Jesusonian.
                > >
                > > Isn't the FER the Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth or is this something different?
                > >
                > > Blessings,
                > > Will
                > >
                >

              • Brother Dave
                ... Hi Will, ... members turned their wealth (i.e., goods, services, money) to the Opus Dei organization. I read the Wikipedia article that you supplied; it
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 5, 2010
                • 0 Attachment

                  > Brother Dave,


                  Hi Will,


                  > Yes, I know of Opus Dei.  I was told they do a lot of good in the world. I was also told that  members turned their wealth (i.e., goods, services, money) to the Opus Dei organization.  I read the Wikipedia article that you supplied; it did cover the apparent cult side of the organization.  Yet, it is accepted as legitimate within the Catholic Church. Most members being lay persons, or contributors.


                  Thanks for the info. Yes, overall, they do good; only some conservative Catholics think they are a bad cult. I use the word "cult" as neutral, just meaning a small religious group, sect is medium sized, denomination is large. We Jesusonians think in terms of the whole planet and our whole universe made by Jesus Christ. God the Universal Father made infinite Paradise in Eternity (always existing, as well as the Paradise Trinity and the Three Absolutes, for seven Absolute aspects of total infinite Reality)


                  > Thanks for sharing. So you believe in Heaven & Hell? I remember a Universal Christian that believed that everyone was forgiven & loved by Jesus dying on the cross & God be an all loving god. Hitler, Pol Pot, the Devil, among others, were all safe from eternal damnation. Is a Universalist the same as a Universal Christian?


                  We Jesusonian Christians believe in many (just over one billion) ever higher heavens after this initial earth life experience until we are Spirit-perfected and admitted finally and eternally into Paradise and serving under the Paradise Trinity; and then we will go out into other evolving or transcendental areas of the cosmos for further adventures, with Paradise as our Residence. (A simplified answer, much more complex than that)

                       On "hell", we do not believe that at all; hell is just a false human concept; as God never had a hell, does not have one, and He will not have any hells.   Today in the USA, only about 1/3 or less of all types of Christians now believe in a literal, ever-burning in torture "hell".  Some believe in a purgatory or brief "hell" for rehabilitation (better) and some believe that hell is just a present separation from doing God's will. (maybe better) We Jesusonians teach that the next seven higher Heavens that we will all ascend into after physical death will be mostly corrective, or rehabilitating to get lowly humans up to the average level of the older, more advanced human inhabited planets in our universe.  The time spent in these next seven Heavens -- called mansion worlds made by Jesus for us -- maybe up to about 7,000 years - just 1000 years on each sphere or less.  Most humans on earth will probably have to spend some time in each to get rehabilitated in soul. This may be sort of a glorified concept of the Catholic "purgatory".  We also do not believe at all in blood atonement or sacrifice as needed to change God from stern judgment to love and mercy. That is a philosophic assault on the Divine Unity and Integrity of our ever loving and lavishly merciful Father God.

                  See John 12:32 which Jesus actually said ! He will draw all humans up to Him with the potential for eternal life as an ever-ascending Son of God ! In Our Fifth Epochal Revelation, pages 2016-2019 or Paper 188, section 4 "Meaning of the death on the cross" and 5 "Lessons from the cross" covers the atonement doctrine errors very well and adds great spiritual truths.

                       All humans are not automatically saved against their God-given free will. Yes, all humans after physical death here will be re-personalized (resurrected) in a higher soul super-body form for further review on the mansion worlds or higher (but always in our universe made by Jesus) to see if they like God's perfect plan for their spiritual ascension. If they absolutely refuse to ascend; then they will be, at the time of loving judgment by God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit, instantly and painlessly extinguished forever -- they will be not - the second death - the final death. All of their former fruits of the spirit and higher thoughts and good deeds will then become part of the evolving God the Supreme out here with us. (an exalted "process theology" possibly) But that former human personality will not be alive and know those aspects derived from supreme experience.


                  > So fellow Jesusonians have conventions or some kind of get together? With my group we stay together through emails or personal visits.


                  We Jesusonians are quite diverse in how much we socialize.  Some love to fly around the world and attend all the larger conferences; more like to go to just regional and local conferences; some prefer to stay only in their family and friends home study groups; many communicate in internet groups and by emails, You Tube, etc., and a few may be loners; but there is no way to know that for certain if they never communicate. Ha ha. I do all, but avoid the large conferences that might draw too much publicity as well as cost more money for travel and lodging. I am close to the Chicago headquarters and have gone to many conferences, and Jesus' Birthday celebrations, both August 21 and December 25.  Christ Michael Incarnated here on earth at noon, Bethlehem time, August 21, 7BC and was named Joshua ben Joseph. Joshua is now Jesus in the English language.  Our calendar is off. AD 2010 now should be AD 2016, as there is no year zero. Jesus Ascended from here and back to the Paradise Universal Father on May 18, AD 30; and then He Returned here fully in Spirit as He the Spirit of all Truth -- The Father and the Son as One in will and in Spirit. See John 16: 7-16  Jesus here has done many spiritual transformations to humans and to world society that remain mostly unrecognized by the majority of humans. It may seem slow; but God has much patience for slow human progress so as to not abrogate human freewill choices.


                  > God bless,
                  > Will
                   
                  God's love and Guiding Presence here with us,

                  Peace and progress in Spirit and in Truth,


                  Brother Dave


                  http://www.LedByJesus.org/   our newest Christian website


                  http://www.PureChristians.org/ Gospel enlarging website,
                  proclaiming worldwide the True Religion
                  OF JESUS and ABOUT JESUS and IN JESUS


                  Come learn and share in one or all !




                  From: wjt400 <wjt400@...>
                  To: Christian-Philosophy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Fri, February 5, 2010 3:22:01 PM
                  Subject: [Christian-Philosophy] Re: Hello Br. Max Opus Dei, Brothers in Christ

                   

                  Brother Dave,
                  Yes, I know of Opus Dei.  I was told they do a lot of good in the world. I was also told that  members turned their wealth (i.e., goods, services, money) to the Opus Dei organization.  I read the Wikipedia article that you supplied; it did cover the apparent cult side of the organization.  Yet, it is accepted as legitimate within the Catholic Church. Most members being lay persons, or contributors.   

                  Thanks for sharing. So you believe in Heaven & Hell? I remember a Universal Christian that believed that everyone was forgiven & loved by Jesus dying on the cross & God be an all loving god. Hitler, Pol Pot, the Devil, among others, were all safe from eternal damnation. Is a Universalist the same as a Universal Christian?

                  So fellow Jesusonians have conventions or some kind of get together? With my group we stay together through emails or personal visits.

                  God bless,
                  Will

                  --- In Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com, Brother Dave <truthist@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Brother Max and Will and all,
                  >
                  > Are either of you, or others here, familiar with the group Opus Dei ?
                  >
                  > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Opus_Dei
                  >
                  > This seems to be another group of many that is getting away from traditional ecclesiastical authority and towards personal God-consciousness even out in the secular world to help transform it.
                  >
                  > Personal note: I call myself "Brother", as I am a Jesusonian Christian close to some Universalists; and I teach that all humans are now beloved sons or daughters of God and in the growing trans-denominationa l Family of God in Jesus on earth. We do not ordain ministers or teachers; that is a personal decision. Many of us have home-family Christian Fellowship groups by many hundreds of different, personally chosen names, or no name at all.
                  >
                  >
                  > Peace and progress in Spirit and in Truth,
                  >
                  > Brother Dave
                  >
                  > http://www.LedByJes us.org/ our newest Christian website
                  >
                  > http://www.PureChri stians.org/ Gospel enlarging website,
                  > proclaiming worldwide the True Religion
                  > OF JESUS and ABOUT JESUS and IN JESUS
                  >
                  > Come learn and share in one or all !
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ __
                  > From: Br Max greyhabit@.. .
                  > To: Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com
                  > Sent: Thu, February 4, 2010 6:33:03 AM
                  > Subject: [Christian-Philosop hy] Re: Hello Br. Max
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Will,
                  >
                  > I'm not a Priest or a Deacon, although some Franciscan Friars are. Friars are similar to Monks, in that we live our Gospel centered life under a set of binding vows. Monks tend to live in isolated locations in closed communities, Friars usually choose to live in ordinary everyday public surroundings. Traditionally in the West, Monks and Friars were Roman Catholic, but times have changed. Global Franciscans now include Anglican, Lutheran, Celtic, and even Buddhist. I used to be an Anglican Franciscan but have retrained to become an Ecumenical Catholic Franciscan. I'm a Roman Catholic but the Franciscan Order I belong to is not under the authority of Rome... sounds complicated and it is !!
                  >
                  > Hope I have managed to answer your original question.
                  >
                  > Blessings,
                  >
                  > Br Maximillian EFO
                  >
                  > --- In Christian-Philosoph y@yahoogroups. com, "wjt400" wjt400@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Br. Max,
                  > > Hello and welcome. What is a Franciscan Friar...a step down from a priest? This I find very interesting.
                  > >
                  > > I am a Catholic that has expanded into the Way of Jesus (unorganized) . I am not a Jesusonian.
                  > >
                  > > Isn't the FER the Fifth Epochal Revelation of Truth or is this something different?
                  > >
                  > > Blessings,
                  > > Will
                  > >
                  >

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